Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[Dr Peepee]

F*** YOU

ruining my marth secrets

how is the elite supposed to stay at the top now =(

 

[Divinokage]

You just do while everyone else squirms around, you can write an enlightened book of Melee or a complete dictionary of it and the people would still remain the same lol.

 

[Deleted member]

F*** YOU

KK's sexual preference priority list (as far as I can tell):

1. Needles
2. Strangers
3. Everyone else in the world
4. Falco players

Also your marth secrets are only secrets because no one else who plays this character has an aptitude for critical analysis besides the people that already get it.

 

[Metal Reeper]

KK's sexual preference priority list (as far as I can tell):

1. Needles
2. Strangers
3. Everyone else in the world
4. Falco players

Also your marth secrets are only secrets because no one else who plays this character has an aptitude for critical analysis besides the people that already get it.

This is why im maining Fox now.
Time to mash buttons.

 

[TheRainMan]

As a beginner, what are some bad habits you picked up that you would recommend a newcomer to avoid?

Just picked up the game (slowpoke.jpg) and have unfortunately picked up using the L stick to jump instead of X or Y making learning to shorthop a lot harder.

Also, are there any shortcuts of sorts to shorthopping? Right now, I can only do it if I move my finger left to right on the button briefly touching it extremely quickly which I'll definitely not be able to do in a normal match.

Thanks for the help, I'm literally so new to this game. Never owned a gamecube and probably have about an hour on it l0l. However, I've been reading up on terminology as best I can so w/e

 

[Twinkles]

No shortcut to short-hopping, but remember short-hopping is all about speed (how fast you let go of the button before jumping). Remember short-hopping is when you let go of jump before your character jumps, so you could try to use that as a visual cue for how to short-hop with every character. After that, practice makes perfect.

 

[rpotts]

You can use the stick to short hop as well. Some notable players use the stick for all jumps including Darkrain and possibly Hungrybox if I recall correctly. I'd still recommend using x or y, stick jump is very difficult for most players, myself included. But hey, whatever works for you.

 

[Construct]

There isn't a real shortcut to shorthopping, but you will pick it up as you spend more time with the game. It just takes awhile for your fingers to get used to it. Keep in mind when you're playing with your friends that you need to pay attention and try to shorthop, don't autopilot.

For general bad habits to get rid of early, learn to either L cancel with Z or to not press the L/R button all the way down when you L-cancel. If you use L/R to L cancel and press them all the way down for your L cancels, it can mess up your teching.

 

[Bones0]

As a beginner, what are some bad habits you picked up that you would recommend a newcomer to avoid?

Just picked up the game (slowpoke.jpg) and have unfortunately picked up using the L stick to jump instead of X or Y making learning to shorthop a lot harder.

Also, are there any shortcuts of sorts to shorthopping? Right now, I can only do it if I move my finger left to right on the button briefly touching it extremely quickly which I'll definitely not be able to do in a normal match.

Thanks for the help, I'm literally so new to this game. Never owned a gamecube and probably have about an hour on it l0l. However, I've been reading up on terminology as best I can so w/e

- Many people fall for the myth that how HARD you press the button or stick is relevant, but it isn't. It's all about SPEED. As long as you unpress before your character leaves the ground, you will SH. Simply jumping all the time (or practicing other tech skill) after KOs will get you good practice without boring you too much, but also don't underestimate the benefits of simple grinding on your own by just sitting and practicing for several minutes straight.

- Y to jump (though the control stick can be useful in certain situations so be as comfortable as possible with both).

- Always roll and spot dodge with the C-stick, not the left stick. You always want to be able ready to use your left stick to DI, shield DI, or shield tilt, and using the C-stick for dodges will make it much easier. The C-stick also buffers dodges and jumps out of shield so you can take action as soon as the shield stun from an enemy move subsides.

- Don't fully press L or R to L-cancel.

- Use the trigger trick. This is done by removing the spring from one of your triggers so that it is digital instead of analog. It will either register as being pushed in all the way or not at all. This is helpful for powershielding because you have to push the trigger in all the way to powershield. So for example, I use L to L-cancel, so I leave it normal, and then I removed the spring from my R so I can press it instantly. You can WD, tech, and powershield with one trigger, and L-cancel and light shield with the other. I actually use L to WD and tech, but I kinda wish I had learned the other way just so the triggers had more equal usage. If you're just starting out, don't worry about trying to powershield. Just make sure you trigger trick either L or R so when you're more comfortable with the game you can transition naturally without relearning anything.

- Another option is to claw, which is simply using your right index finger to press X or Y, which allows you to jump without worrying about getting your thumb to the A button or C-stick quickly. One downside is it may be difficult to use Z or R with your middle and ring finger. I don't use this method myself, but a lot of players use it to great success.

 

[Stylez]

What's the best way to grab if you claw and use your middle finger for R? My ring finger has the strength of a baby finger, so I never use it. Up till now i've been transitioning from claw to normal (just moving my index from A to Z) when needing to grab, but obviously that's dumb.
I could just go normal all the time, but claw feels so much more natural

Also, is that trigger trick allowed in tournies?

 

[Bones0]

You could use trigger+A to grab, but idk how easy it is to get the timing for a JC grab. I'd imagine once you jump pressing L/R doesn't do anything until you leave the ground, but to grab asap you would have to press the trigger + A on the same frame, and being a bit late with the trigger will make you dash grab. So yeah... idk what to tell you. lol

Yes, trigger trick is allowed. A good number of top players use it.

 

[Stylez]

Thanks, forgot about the control-stick JC. But ya, I figured there's not much to say. My current method is fairly efficient, I just don't like the idea of using some sort of claw/normal orientation

 

[Jake13]

I love the way the taking out the spring makes my L feel (cancels, wavedashes, general smoothness)

But I use L for everything and it made wavedashing out of shield stupid hard.


Also, a player down here claws like a pro and he has always said the hardest thing about it is JC grabbing with UP + L + A

 

[KirbyKaze]

KK's sexual preference priority list (as far as I can tell):

1. Needles
2. Strangers
3. Everyone else in the world
4. Falco players

Also your marth secrets are only secrets because no one else who plays this character has an aptitude for critical analysis besides the people that already get it.

Lack of "Black Men" makes this list a failure.

 

[TheLake]

Lack of "Black Men" makes this list a failure.

I can vouche ;D

Ohhh canada!

Marths nair is awsome

but bad for approaching somtimes...

Marth dittos are cool too

and I think you all are super

and should have a wonderful day ;D

 

[Construct]

When should I be trying to escape from spacie shield pressure, and what are the ways I should be going about this?
This is a pretty broad question, I know, but I don't really understand what to look for and then what to do. This is mostly because I don't get to play with good spacie players very often, and when I do I usually get smothered in technicality until I get a lucky shieldgrab and then do a stupid marth death combo. Most of the time though, I get caught by a shine/grab/aerial. I usually get called on my rolls too. I just don't know what I should be looking for/doing, and I'm not sure how to progress in this area, which is by far my biggest weakness right now. Yeah I kinda suck

 

[Dr Peepee]

Shield DI can be pretty helpful in setting up grabs/rolls/WDs OOS/aerials OOS because it's harder for a spacie to stay on you without moving forward after SH'ing before they aerial again. Other helpful tricks include moving your control stick during shield hitstun(not sure what it's actually called lol) so it looks like you're trying to roll, then doing something else.

Something good to remember is that after the initial approaching aerial, spacies usually shine then they have to grab, double shine, or delayed aerial. The hole for delayed aerial is acting immediately after you see the shine, the hole for double shine is after the second shine(or after their next action) and shield DI helps a lot against it, and shine grab can be beaten by shield DI or just up-B'ing OOS/rolling, especially if their shine is staled.

WD OOS is a really funny counter to shield pressure just like jumping is because of the way Marth crouches really low when he starts to jump. Mess around with that.

Oh yeah, and using the C-stick to buffer rolls if you think you'll be grabbed/attacked again is pretty good. Just don't overuse that because it's pretty easy to bait. This is because lots of spacies will just approaching aerial shine then maybe space a move and wait and you'll roll.

Look for trends, and watch how pros deal with shield pressure.

 

[Construct]

That's exactly the kind of response I was hoping for, thanks a ton PP! Will work on digesting and implementing all this.

 

[Bones0]

Lack of "Black Men" makes this list a failure.

It's on there. #4.


Also, counter OoS will make spacies feel dumb if they always late aerial. They will either start doing early aerials (meaning they have to fade away and give you some space), or they will start shine-grabbing (buffer rolls and pray).

 

[AceDudeyeah]

I hate Falco's ledgehop double laser.
Is there a way to knock him out of it besides counter?
I have tried descent fairing but Marth's aerial movement and the hitbox of fair usually leaves me eating the lasers instead.

Other scenario: You have shielded both of the lasers instead of trying to hit him out of it and a distance equal or less than a wavedash length from Falco, viable options?

 

[Jun.]

I hate Falco's ledgehop double laser.
Is there a way to knock him out of it besides counter?
I have tried descent fairing but Marth's aerial movement and the hitbox of fair usually leaves me eating the lasers instead.

Other scenario: You have shielded both of the lasers instead of trying to hit him out of it and a distance equal or less than a wavedash length from Falco, viable options?

stand on a platform and wait.

Why would you let falco have a chance at your shield? Just back away and wait for that ***** to come to you and make a mistake

 

[knightpraetor]

"I hate Falco's ledgehop double laser.
Is there a way to knock him out of it besides counter?
I have tried descent fairing but Marth's aerial movement and the hitbox of fair usually leaves me eating the lasers instead.

Other scenario: You have shielded both of the lasers instead of trying to hit him out of it and a distance equal or less than a wavedash length from Falco, viable options?
"

you can dodge them vertically and place a fair in the zone where he comes in...this is really hard though..i feel like the risk of missing almost makes it not worth it. much easier to do with the rest of the cast.

or you can powershield them (but you will get wrecked if they call your position and wavedash on with invuln if you just stand there).

or you can stay mobile and then powershield off your dash (i like this the best)

 

[Winston]

I hate Falco's ledgehop double laser.
Is there a way to knock him out of it besides counter?
I have tried descent fairing but Marth's aerial movement and the hitbox of fair usually leaves me eating the lasers instead.

Other scenario: You have shielded both of the lasers instead of trying to hit him out of it and a distance equal or less than a wavedash length from Falco, viable options?

You can fair oos between the two lasers.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Depending on how badly they do them (most Falcos do them badly) you can duck the first one and down tilt.

 

[Bones0]

I think even if they hit you, a CC dtilt will hit before the second one (anyone know for sure?). If that's true, just hold down and double tap A.

 

[MT_]

You can shieldgrab after the first laser.

 

[Bones0]

You can also shield grab after the second laser unless they are close enough to shine.

Also, if you can fair OoS in between, that means you can counter OoS in between.

Wow, no wonder I get ****ed up for LHDLing every time.

 

[AceDudeyeah]

Thinking about other options, aerial neutral-B sounds promising as how it stalls while also hitting below Marth. So float above the lasers while hitting down? I'mma try this too and let y'all know the results.

Depending on how badly they do them (most Falcos do them badly) you can duck the first one and down tilt.

I do this with ftilt too against some but I like to be prepared against people with good tech skill.

You can fair oos between the two lasers.

There are enough frames to do that?? Gonna have to do that

you can dodge them vertically and place a fair in the zone where he comes in...this is really hard though..i feel like the risk of missing almost makes it not worth it. much easier to do with the rest of the cast.]

THIS is the option I try along with just hitting them while they're still in the air. His shield comes up before the fair though. Or I do it too early and eat lasers and a combo. Need to try other things

stand on a platform and wait.

Why would you let falco have a chance at your shield? Just back away and wait for that ***** to come to you and make a mistake

I tend to sit back a dtilt distance away from the edge, which tends to bait a ledgehop laser, forcing me to shield and cut my losses early. I'd rather do this than get closer or let him onto the stage for free. I refuse as a Marth!

That's a common option? Sit on a platform and fall with an aerial? Looking to my reply to the last quote, is that an option Marth can do in time before a shield comes up?

 

[Metal Reeper]

If the falco's lasers suck you can ftilt or stilt him out of it. Not sure how helpful this is. I don't think it works on good falcos

 

[Bones0]

Thinking about other options, aerial neutral-B sounds promising as how it stalls while also hitting below Marth. So float above the lasers while hitting down? I'mma try this too and let y'all know the results.

Fair hits lower, but that aerial stall can really **** with timings, plus you don't have to worry about tipping.

Does anyone know how shooting multiple lasers in the air works (like, do they buffer or something)? I've never actually focused on double clicking B fast for my second laser, so if how fast you press actually matters than that would explain why I get grabbed or hit by people shielding the first one all the time (but my training partner might also just be good as **** at this).

 

[AceDudeyeah]

I dunno how big the buffer is, but I know they buffer. As long as you mash B twice, the 1st and 2nd airborne laser should come out from that input.

 

[Bones0]

Okay, that's what I thought, thanks. lol

 

[AceDudeyeah]

As for fair hits lower, it may or may not have a lower-reaching gross hitbox, but I did some research and it aerial neu-b has more lower-reaching net hitbox

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=330523

 

[AceDudeyeah]

oops, double posted

 

[Bones0]

As for fair hits lower, it may or may not have a lower-reaching gross hitbox, but I did some research and it aerial neu-b has more lower-reaching net hitbox

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=330523

Damn, that's a more significant distance than I thought. I still think the speed factor is pretty off-putting, but I'll try to force it into some situations next time I get to play. Thanks for digging deeper. ^_^

Also, if you ever get lasered out of the air, you can almost always fair before the Falco can do anything. The Marth I play against is so good at fairing out of lasers that I usually have to shield as I land from the laser, and then try to grab or do something to him OoS. Uairing is also really good since the hitbox comes out in front, but it's a little more difficult than fair just because you are much more likely to be holding forward than tilting up for non-C-stick aerials. I also recommend using Z for doing aerials out of laser stun when you're low to the ground because it automatically L-cancels. This lets you do stuff like double tap Z if they did multiple lasers or if you're unsure of the timing. It also works for jab vs. double jab mixups. Damn, now that I think about it, I really want to try using uair instead of fair.

I'm calling it: By 2014 people will be tomahawking out of aerial laser stun because the Falco will be expecting aerials.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

Also, if you ever get lasered out of the air, you can almost always fair before the Falco can do anything. The Marth I play against is so good at fairing out of lasers that I usually have to shield as I land from the laser, and then try to grab or do something to him OoS. Uairing is also really good since the hitbox comes out in front, but it's a little more difficult than fair just because you are much more likely to be holding forward than tilting up for non-C-stick aerials. I also recommend using Z for doing aerials out of laser stun when you're low to the ground because it automatically L-cancels. This lets you do stuff like double tap Z if they did multiple lasers or if you're unsure of the timing. It also works for jab vs. double jab mixups. Damn, now that I think about it, I really want to try using uair instead of fair.

I'm calling it: By 2014 people will be tomahawking out of aerial laser stun because the Falco will be expecting aerials.

Marth's in the know call this the 'Azen slap'. Fairing out of laser stun. Good stuff, been around for a while though.

 

[Medz!]

Critique my marth please!!!!

Vs neon.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=plcp&v=z3GuP6F9iZo

Vs mizuki formerly known as rubyiris
http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=plcp&v=pm6U7th0db8

Vs oksas, gg7, some other smasher. I'm also the blue fox if you want to critique my fox too that's cool
http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=plcp&v=odLkh9eW9KE

Edit:also there's more matches of me vs silly kyle and okami and other people. Ill post the rest here when they get uploaded.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

Critique my marth please!!!!

Vs neon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3GuP6F9iZo

Vs mizuki formerly known as rubyiris
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm6U7th0db8

Vs oksas, gg7, some other smasher. I'm also the blue fox if you want to critique my fox too that's cool
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odLkh9eW9KE

Edit:also there's more matches of me vs silly kyle and okami and other people. Ill post the rest here when they get uploaded.

Links fix'd

 

[MasterShake]

"Nairing from the ledge is bad...mkay."

 

[knightpraetor]

"The Marth I play against is so good at fairing out of lasers "

stop shooting high lasers and shoot low ones...you should be hitting the marth as he comes down..

the only time you should be forced to use the high one is if you are out of space but there are better ways to deal with that as falco.

don't know why he doesn't just wreck you with dash attack if you're shooting high lasers though.

at least if you are using low lasers and hitting him near the ground he has to time short hops over them. Plus few marths are very aerial based and even those that are...fair and nair don't combo to grab and at low percents don't do much...so you at least have options when you get hit and you make the marth work for it. Dash attack on the other hand is easy to link into grab, uptilt, and other kill setups

if you get good at timing the lasers properly the marth won't fair you..he'll waveland backwards or airdodge as you come in instead to try to reacquire neutral..and every time he fails you will use him for combo fodder