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Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

strawhats

strawhats

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
4,273
Location
Bronx
knightpraetor said:
i really feel like coining a new melee term.

I hereby dub thee, the PP combo.

The PP - to combo the opponent for 3-4 hits while not looking at the screen and then to perform the edgeguard on their recovery without looking at the screen either.

I Finally managed to perform this for the first time, and boy was it a satisfying experience..

the first time I was hit by this combo was a pretty intimidating experience. Here I was 3 stocking PP's marth in marth dittos while he wasn't paying attention..and then..he like looks at the screen for one sec. He then looks away starts talking to someone and precedes to combo me off stage then fsmash me for the final hit on my up b without looking (sound cues are too good)

After that, I just gave up. I knew there was no way to win
Click to expand...
LMFAO...I'm sorry for your loss.
 
ShroudedOne

ShroudedOne

Smash Hero
Premium
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
5,493
Yeah, Jesse is going to be one of the Marths that bring the truth to scrubs about this character. Used to play with him sort of frequently when I lived there...he's definitely not to be overlooked.
 
A

AustinRC

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 11, 2005
Messages
1,482
Peach vs marth:

Dash dance right out of her dash attack range. Pulling a turnip is very unsafe at this range and can be punished, however when she does pull a turnip nair through it to hit her if she stays in place and counter it if she approaches with it, she doesn't have enough aerial mobility to avoid the counter. After you make them start to respect your dtilt approach they should start jumping and floating to avoid it. Stay close to her and walk forward but don't do anything they will back off to prevent you from getting under them. This way you can gain more stage control and put on pressure without doing very much. Sometimes run towards them while they are floating and fair them is really good just don't get too predictable you have to be closer to them for this to work.

:phone:
 
Stylez

Stylez

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 24, 2012
Messages
66
Location
Fresno, CA
Tee ay eye said:
try to focus less on options beating options and focus more on things like movement and positioning.

it's pretty much impossible to keep in mind ALL of your opponent's options at a given moment, but you can narrow the range of options based on positioning, conditioning, and tendency.

positioning: where you and your opponent are in relation to one another will govern each character's strongest and weakest options

conditioning: what you think your opponent will want to do in response to what you are doing

tendency: what your opponent has a history of doing, especially in certain situations
Click to expand...
Late response, but thanks for the advice! Really helped me a lot. Whenever I have a clear advantage and I let it go I try to think of how I could have positioned myself better rather than trying for some psychic read. Its worked so far.

Speaking of tendencies: The amount of time I hold my shield is very predictable. Light shielding can help with this, I know. Is there ever a reason to wd oos in place and crouch cancel? Not even sure if that works
 
Dr Peepee

Dr Peepee

Thanks for Everything <3
Moderator
BRoomer
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Sep 29, 2007
Messages
27,766
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Raleigh, North Carolina
You'll just ASDI down(mini-CC) then but it can be good if someone is spacing a move you can ASDI down to grab punish or something.

Something like another Marth Fair could be a good example, but you would probably punish with a move instead of a grab in that case.
 
knightpraetor

knightpraetor

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
2,321
light shield is too freaking good..i really want to learn to powershield with the right trigger...i just can't play marth without light shield.

edit: I'm wrong, so i edited this out. Summary I think clawing and normal grip have little advantages/disadvantages now..but regardless of grip you should be able to choose nair or fair without losing frames moving your grip in my opinion
 
Construct

Construct

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 16, 2012
Messages
465
Location
NEOH
I do n-airs with Z, and I use Z for L-cancelling as well. It's 1000x more comfortable for me. I'm not quite sure what you're talking about with the fairs though KP, I just use c-stick for them and have no problem timing them lol.
 
knightpraetor

knightpraetor

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
2,321
oh yeah I guess I wasn't thinking straight..sorry I was tired and mostly thinking about whether I should switch back to a normal grip if i can't use Z for nairs comfortably. Honestly I am starting to think claw grips are overrated unless you also use Z for the nairs which hurts my hands.

yeah, but looking back at my post I was thinking wrong sorry.
It does seem like sh rising retreating fair might get a little more retreating distance with a claw, but a millimeter isn't going to ever matter. Honestly my highest priority right now is figuring out a grip in which my fingers can be in place to both nair or fair instantly.

Was big house that big of a tourney? i watched the big names in top 4, but I didn't get to see who went.
 
Bones0

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
Stylez said:
Late response, but thanks for the advice! Really helped me a lot. Whenever I have a clear advantage and I let it go I try to think of how I could have positioned myself better rather than trying for some psychic read. Its worked so far.

Speaking of tendencies: The amount of time I hold my shield is very predictable. Light shielding can help with this, I know. Is there ever a reason to wd oos in place and crouch cancel? Not even sure if that works
Click to expand...
Unshield takes 15 frames. Frame perfect WD in place for Marth takes 14 frames (4 for jumpsquat, 10 for landing lag). Simply unshielding is easier and gives you more free reign over your DI because you don't have to hold down. I would recommend unshielding, but it's extremely for you to be in a situation where you wouldn't want to adjust your spacing with the WD and do it in the same speed as an unshield. WD in place is a little faster, but if there's any true value in it, it's the fact that you are put into a low crouch so you can powershield or avoid projectiles/attacks much more easily.

knightpraetor said:
oh yeah I guess I wasn't thinking straight..sorry I was tired and mostly thinking about whether I should switch back to a normal grip if i can't use Z for nairs comfortably. Honestly I am starting to think claw grips are overrated unless you also use Z for the nairs which hurts my hands.

yeah, but looking back at my post I was thinking wrong sorry.
It does seem like sh rising retreating fair might get a little more retreating distance with a claw, but a millimeter isn't going to ever matter. Honestly my highest priority right now is figuring out a grip in which my fingers can be in place to both nair or fair instantly.

Was big house that big of a tourney? i watched the big names in top 4, but I didn't get to see who went.
Click to expand...
I'm assuming you use your index finger for Y/X. Is there any way you could claw a little further to just press A for nairs? You could sort of seesaw your finger from jump to nair.

As far as trigger tricking your R, why can't you put your middle finger on the trigger? I tried it just to see if I could keep a finger on Z and R at all times, but it felt too uncomfortable and was largely unnecessary. You could probably get used to it if you had to though. This would also solve your nair problem if you could get used to using Z with your middle finger.
 
Bones0

Bones0

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Messages
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Jarrettsville, MD
I am retty sure utilt and up-B both hit on frame 5, and I never get shield grabbed doing late tipped fair -> utilt so I would guess yes.
 
knightpraetor

knightpraetor

Smash Champion
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Messages
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Z seems like the best bet, I have tried what you suggested before but I may try using pointer finger on A like you suggested. I have tried that before but something was too difficult for me. I think my nairs were less precise or something. probably difficulty getting pointer finger from jump to A fast enough but maybe I can learn it. May be better than the carpal that I will get if I try to stretch my pointer and middle finger enough to reach Z
 
Beat!

Beat!

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Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
3,214
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Uppsala, Sweden
sup

Back from KFC 2, didn't perform very well overall. However, I did pretty well vs Over (got 4-stocked game 1, but game 2 and 3 went down to last stock, mid/high%), so I might post the set for critique when it gets uploaded (depends on how much I can learn by watching it myself).
 
knightpraetor

knightpraetor

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
2,321
yeah, looks like it hit weirdly..basically a reverse upsmash hitbox..pretty sick. i wonder how viable it is to perform. Gotta go try this now.
 
KirbyKaze

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
Reverse u-smash hitbox that does no KB, only hitlag, and half the damage of a tipped u-smash?

Clearly this is what is going on and it is not a phantom hit.
 
MT_

MT_

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
791
Location
Austin, TX
KirbyKaze is correct here. It only looks like fox was "spiked" by the phantom because the fox SDI'd it up and then fell. Pretty funny though (and made me realize that phantom hits can be SDI'd too since they also have hit lag!).

:phone:
 
Bones0

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
Yeah, I realized phantom hits have hitlag yesterday when I got gimped by a phantom Jiggs fair because I inputted by DJ during the hit. -.-
 
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