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Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
"Why I won" is only marginally less important than "Why I lost". It just fulfills a different function. "Why I lost" is more about direct change to prevent further losses. "Why I won" is more about testing your objectivity and preventing you from falling into ruts.

Learning to look at your matches as an outsider with minimal bias is really important. Helps improvement a lot. "Why I won" can be a very useful tool provided you don't let your ego run away with you.

It can also be healthy if you're going through a rut - positive thinking helps break those much more than negative thinking.

It can also help keep things in perspective if you got a lucky win (*cough*Puffs*cough*) but I don't want to diss people further than that since it strays from the point. Looking at your wins objectively helps identify weaknesses. If you really won off a lucky item with Peach then it's important to understand that further improvement is still needed because stitch won't always be there for you. You can't get complacent over your skill & ranking if it was a really silly win - that's an easy way to plateau.

Egos, when misused, are really bad.
 

Tee ay eye

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
5,635
Location
AZ
If you really won off a lucky item with Peach then it's important to understand that further improvement is still needed because stitch won't always be there for you.
have you ever played against an actual peach main before?

clutchest stichfaces ever 100% of the time
 

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
Stitchfaces / Bobombs don't really scare me anymore as Fox <_<

I just accept that I might randomly die and pressure as much as I can haha
 

ShroudedOne

Smash Hero
Premium
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
5,493
Stitchfaces and bombs are kinda lame. And I'm bad at them. Can't say they won me any match, yet.
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
I am okay with this if we also edit his moveset so that his shine has no hitbox, no invincibility, and his dair becomes a meteor with low priority.
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
Well I was also thinking we could change his shine so it has a 1 in 25 chance of hitting like a rest, and his dair could have a 1 in 25 chance of hitting at a 45 degree angle regardless of the opponent's DI.
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
I think we're on to something. We could basically give every character some sort of ridiculous super power that lasts for a short period of time. It'd be the Smash version of an ultra or X-factor or American Idol. They could be called Smash Finales!
 

ShroudedOne

Smash Hero
Premium
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
5,493
I approve of replacing Mr. Saturn with Pokeballs.

Can we also exchange beamsworods for motion sensors? Or Green shells. Green shells + Peach would be so good.
 

Tee ay eye

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
5,635
Location
AZ
I think we're on to something. We could basically give every character some sort of ridiculous super power that lasts for a short period of time. It'd be the Smash version of an ultra or X-factor or American Idol. They could be called Smash Finales!
no just peach
 

AustinRC

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 11, 2005
Messages
1,482
I'm shocked and amazed at how quickly off subject this discussion got. Just wow guys. Wow...
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
it's just easy to observe. not even just smash related. people are always assholes when they think that they're doing something important. watch the news like daily, you'll see it.
 

Stylez

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 24, 2012
Messages
66
Location
Fresno, CA
Well, since there was talk of helping below average players:

How do you help a Marth who's still learning to deal with certain situations? Who may not know what to do all the time (or even the majority of the time) and will often recognize openings wayyy after they've vanished?
Because of this I find myself committing to a decent option, but can't immediately recognize ALL of my opponents alternatives and fail to cover myself appropriately. It's like i'm playing chess and only thinking a few moves in lol.

I'm thinking I should just watch more videos, but I wanted to see if I could get some advice too. And the Marth boards do need more posters. Are there other ways of improving this type of recognition?
 

OverLord

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 14, 2010
Messages
645
Location
Roma, Italy
You can post a video of yours to have more specific advices about your way of dealing with options, otherwise you can just watch videos and see how other players deal with situations in which you wouldn't know what to do or just to see different playstyles and choices.

If you got some specific question about a certain situation and/or match-up just ask and someone will answer for sure.
 

Tee ay eye

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
5,635
Location
AZ
Well, since there was talk of helping below average players:

How do you help a Marth who's still learning to deal with certain situations? Who may not know what to do all the time (or even the majority of the time) and will often recognize openings wayyy after they've vanished?
Because of this I find myself committing to a decent option, but can't immediately recognize ALL of my opponents alternatives and fail to cover myself appropriately. It's like i'm playing chess and only thinking a few moves in lol.

I'm thinking I should just watch more videos, but I wanted to see if I could get some advice too. And the Marth boards do need more posters. Are there other ways of improving this type of recognition?
try to focus less on options beating options and focus more on things like movement and positioning.

it's pretty much impossible to keep in mind ALL of your opponent's options at a given moment, but you can narrow the range of options based on positioning, conditioning, and tendency.

positioning: where you and your opponent are in relation to one another will govern each character's strongest and weakest options

conditioning: what you think your opponent will want to do in response to what you are doing

tendency: what your opponent has a history of doing, especially in certain situations
 

knightpraetor

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
2,321
yeah that was hilarious.

I agree on teaching new players positioning rather than options beating options.

I spent 5 more hours teaching..shing appears to be reaching about 50% accuracy, but it's not ready yet so I just focused on Full hop approaches/counters with marth and following up with them..

Then I spent like 3 hrs explaining and practicing dashdance drills...mostly having her dodge walk forward dtilt and dashing in and out while i play marth and swing fairs for her to dodge. I got zero to deathed 3 times legitly. I was pichu, but even so..marth's uptilts and fsmashes need a nerf...

she also randomly hit some m2k style combo where she did uptilt dash attack charge upsmash on me (definitely was trying to do an uptilt of course but still)

it's pretty funny. i could post the 3 zero to deaths in a combo video and people would think, oh she's not that bad...or i could post the videos in which she couldn't punish an opponent roll spamming around her and people would just laugh. Yeah I spent a lot of time teaching her how to deal with that...i felt bad that she was getting wrecked by something so nonlegit just because I had only taught her how to deal with more normal approach styles.

it's weird that she's so interested in learning though. Most guys i know didn't even show this much dedication. I'm also teaching a guy who plays sheik..soon my vs sheik will be godlike. Screw this whole specializing in fighting jiggs when i never even play against a jiggs in tourney (except mahone and then I usually just forfeit cause I just want him to win some gas money so it costs less to travel. It's hard to want to progress when I know 100% that mahone will beat the guys after me but only consider my own odds like 50/50 or something), everyone should try to be best at their character's worst matchup.
 

ShroudedOne

Smash Hero
Premium
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
5,493
I also find it weird that you've got this girl super interested in learning Melee. And those drills sound kind of intense, lol. 3 hours on dashdancing...
 

knightpraetor

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
2,321
lol

so yesterday i noticed that marth can dash under doc's pills..even the lowest ones. I think I'm going to start work on practicing that as I can think of a lot of situations where the ability to do that would lead to doc offstage.

also, i tried teaching her some wavedashing but then i kept thinking of things far more important to marth than wding, so I have a feeling it will be a week or so before I even bother mentioning it again. once she can sh, properly practicing and learning how to wall, take stage, and then punish all of the attempts to crossover on a platform stage...is far more important than wding

WDing would probably be more important if most of her likely opponents could tech edgeguards, but since they can't I think she doesn't need it.

also, i highly recommend playing marth vs bowser if you ever feel bad about your character. Everything combos...you drop your combo, it combos, you do your aerial the wrong direction, you still have time to combo..you pick a random attack it either combos them or sends them offstage.
 

knightpraetor

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
2,321
i really feel like coining a new melee term.

I hereby dub thee, the PP combo.

The PP - to combo the opponent for 3-4 hits while not looking at the screen and then to perform the edgeguard on their recovery without looking at the screen either.

I Finally managed to perform this for the first time, and boy was it a satisfying experience..

the first time I was hit by this combo was a pretty intimidating experience. Here I was 3 stocking PP's marth in marth dittos while he wasn't paying attention..and then..he like looks at the screen for one sec. He then looks away starts talking to someone and precedes to combo me off stage then fsmash me for the final hit on my up b without looking (sound cues are too good)

After that, I just gave up. I knew there was no way to win
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
One time I was at a mini-tourney at College Park. Winston was standing behind me asking me something so I turned around and looked at him as I waveshined someone across the stage and usmashed them for the KO. :awesome:
 

knightpraetor

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
2,321
yeah, bones, the best way to impress (intimidate) people is to kill them without looking. For a new player this is enough to totally blow their mind
 

MSG

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 13, 2011
Messages
41
How do I fight link as marth? Idk how to space moves properly, considering link's long grab range. Not sure what to do other than dashdance and wait for link to make a mistake.
 

Divinokage

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
16,250
Location
Montreal, Quebec
You could always hit his shield and bait attacks, probably the easiest way to deal with him rather than waiting for him to shoot **** at you, I would always fight him close range/tipper range.
 

Dr Peepee

Thanks for Everything <3
Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
27,766
Location
Raleigh, North Carolina
How do I fight link as marth? Idk how to space moves properly, considering link's long grab range. Not sure what to do other than dashdance and wait for link to make a mistake.
Link's grab is kinda slow and if he misses then he's laggy forever so he can't do it much. Just get closer to him and then use later aerials to pressure his shield or grabs so he can't shield grab safely.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
How do I fight link as marth? Idk how to space moves properly, considering link's long grab range. Not sure what to do other than dashdance and wait for link to make a mistake.
you throw him up and then you do terrible things to him at your leisure.
 
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