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[strawhats]

looking foraward to see u play axe's pika with marth pp (after u beat him with falco)

 

[Bones0]

Spammed uthrow last night in Marth dittos. God damn have I been missing out. So much free %, and it even makes killing easier because you constantly get them without a jump, and you can force stupid DI mixups like uair vs. fair vs. up-B.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Marth's Uthrow is amazing

good work man

 

[ShroudedOne]

It's also really **** vs Peach.

And yet, Peepee didn't upthrow ONCE in his Marth/Peach friendly.



(I don't remember upthrows in your friendlies vs Armada, but that might just be my memory)

 

[Dr Peepee]

Fthrows everywhere

I was experimenting =p

 

[Tee ay eye]

-last stock game 1: bad regrabs. either stop doing them as a bait or keep doing them to keep the invincibility fresh or come up quickly to make the most of your invincibility frames. no point in panicking there if that's what you did.

i was mentally preparing myself to do the instant land edgehop lol

thanks for the rest. i'll keep it in mind the next time i play him

 

[Takaaaa]

I just got back into playing Marth and starting with the basics to become a more serious player. I was wondering if its better to wavedash with x/y or joystick? I find it easier to do it with x/y but idk if it's smarter to use the joystick. Also is it better to z grab or R+A? I find it more natural to have both pointers on the L&R but since im starting from the start, I dont want to get into habits that might be hard to change later.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Use whatever is most comfortable for you.

 

[Wake]

Oh god... Marths are learning about his uthrow. Shrouded... SHUT IT.

 

[Takaaaa]

Use whatever is most comfortable for you.

Gottcha~ I think ill stick to the ways that feel more right. Thanks, just had to make sure there wasnt a wrong way.

 

[MT_]

I just got back into playing Marth and starting with the basics to become a more serious player. I was wondering if its better to wavedash with x/y or joystick? I find it easier to do it with x/y but idk if it's smarter to use the joystick. Also is it better to z grab or R+A? I find it more natural to have both pointers on the L&R but since im starting from the start, I dont want to get into habits that might be hard to change later.

Disclaimer: this is just my personal preference, but I believe there is good rationale to how I do things.

I think it's better to wavedash with x/y than joystick because that way you can divide the necessary motions between your two hands. If you wavedash with only joystick, you have to go up on the joystick, then move the joystock back down/diagonal which is a lot of movement when you could simply just hold a diagonal and then tap y->R to wavedash. In addition, using the joystick would make it harder to have precision in varying the length of your wavedash by hitting those angles between the diagonal and the 90 degree angles.

For grabbing, if you're not simply shieldgrabbing then I would suggest using Z. This is because you're going to learn to do jump cancel grabs (JC grabs) which require the buttons y->Z in order to execute. I'm not sure if using R+A to grab is even possible when doing JC grabs, but even if it was you'd have to go from y->R+A or up on the joystick->R+A which is simply... more difficult IMO.

So yeah, wavedash with x/y and grab with Z is how I would do things.

 

[Bones0]

^This. All the "fine as long as it's comfortable" stuff is BS. Sure, it may seem comfortable and effective now, but that's cause you're still doing noob tactics.

Jump with Y, grab with Z, L-cancel with one trigger (only lightshield depth; don't click and waste your tech), and use the other trigger with the trigger trick (remove the spring and use it for teching, powershielding, shield stops, and shield drops).

 

[MT_]

I would also suggest shielding with L and wavedashing with R. I think it will make wavedashing OOS a lot easier, though I do know of people who shield and wavedash OOS with the same trigger button very consistently (seems inefficient to me though).

 

[Takaaaa]

Disclaimer: this is just my personal preference, but I believe there is good rationale to how I do things.

I think it's better to wavedash with x/y than joystick because that way you can divide the necessary motions between your two hands. If you wavedash with only joystick, you have to go up on the joystick, then move the joystock back down/diagonal which is a lot of movement when you could simply just hold a diagonal and then tap y->R to wavedash. In addition, using the joystick would make it harder to have precision in varying the length of your wavedash by hitting those angles between the diagonal and the 90 degree angles.

For grabbing, if you're not simply shieldgrabbing then I would suggest using Z. This is because you're going to learn to do jump cancel grabs (JC grabs) which require the buttons y->Z in order to execute. I'm not sure if using R+A to grab is even possible when doing JC grabs, but even if it was you'd have to go from y->R+A or up on the joystick->R+A which is simply... more difficult IMO.

So yeah, wavedash with x/y and grab with Z is how I would do things.

Wow thank you for this! R+A is what I did, but now that I understand why Z is better, I'll start doing that. Glad to change over before it became a habit. Thanks again for explaining it.

 

[Roboturner]

Poor Marth just gets torn apart by Falcon, even though it looks Marth can just bully him all day.

 

[Bones0]

Whenever I play Falcon vs. Marth, I'm either getting techchased for 20 mins and only taking 50%, or I'm jumping off stage and dying in half a second, or I'm comboing them with 4-5 moves and killing them from 0%. lol

 

[ShroudedOne]

That matchup is really, really wild, and high variance, imo. It just shifts from one person getting destroyed to the other.

I don't really understand what Marth is supposed to do to Falcon when Falcon is at 0%, though. Fthrow seems like the go-to, but it's really weak, imo, because Falcon can just DI out and be safe...and upthrow is terrible at low percents because of lag...does Marth just like, swing at him?

 

[Bones0]

Dthrow tech chase I think, but I've never actually sat down and tried to do it.

 

[Dr Peepee]

That matchup is really, really wild, and high variance, imo. It just shifts from one person getting destroyed to the other.

I don't really understand what Marth is supposed to do to Falcon when Falcon is at 0%, though. Fthrow seems like the go-to, but it's really weak, imo, because Falcon can just DI out and be safe...and upthrow is terrible at low percents because of lag...does Marth just like, swing at him?

Fthrow mixup grabs, but Dthrow can be a better choice. It leads to tech chasing. This is only an issue until around 10% or so when Fthrow starts knocking down, so really if you can land pretty much any sword attack it sets up for tech chases on grabs directly afterward and that's major damage.

Dtilt'ing Falcon and then grabbing is often how I take him from 0 to death haha. Falcon DDs a lot so Dtilt cuts right into that and then Falcon sometimes locks up and shields since moving is less safe then.

I want to say you can tech chase any of Falcon's options off of any DI+tech direction off of Dthrow around 0 but I am honestly not sure. I think I can get away with it though. I tend to take full advantage of anything positional I get regardless so the hits just come.

You are right that Uthrow is too laggy btw.

 

[Bones0]

Marth can chaingrab Falcon with uthrow.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Well yeah but not at 0%, which is what we were discussing I thought.

 

[Bones0]

I know, I was joking. ;P

(well I know he can, but it's only for like 1 throw lol)

 

[Deleted member]

tai stop using marth's nair for your first hit game, it's god awful vs every character and will get you *****. it's seriously terrible, just stop it.

marth can just abuse his ground vs ground game vs falcon (massively in marth's favor) until falcon jumps and then you can just do dial-a-combo until he's dead.

basically your goal vs falcon is to not let him grab you, since all of his other launchers are obvious or suck.

try not to attack air to ground and if you do dash immediately afterwards, falcon can grab marth's nair/fair landing lag pretty easily and it's already risky but it might lead to something good even if the aerial misses if you win the grab war afterward. remember that the fair point blank on shield > dash through them is mostly a marth ditto only thing and don't try it here. even if you get a good aerial sometimes they can crouch grab or crouch > dashgrab and just get you so it;s usually best to just stay grounded vs grounded falcon and play the grab game or poke with dtilt until they jump. once they jump and you can get them, you go for it.

falcon's recovery is pretty unfortunate, just put the sword between him and the stage until he dies. if you're not sure what to do, dtilt is pretty idiot-proof. edge hog > ledge jump reverse fair > fsmash also combos basically forever and no one ever DIs it right.

basically just don't get grabbed.

falcon vs marth is a pretty even match until you realize that falcon needs to grab you or needs you to jump like a ******. if you don't do those things you should win pretty much. falcon's shield game is *** and marth doesn't even need one so you win there too. just use range and movement and react and don't play like a ******. if you're still losing you're probably jumping too much.

edit: don't try to combo falcon at 0 from the ground lol just do gay things to him until something good happens. you're MARTH, this should be obvious. keep downthrowing him or something, you get crazy reaction time and falcon's techs suck.

 

[Bones0]

Would PP or anyone be interested in writing a guide on Dtilting for Dummies? I probably don't use it nearly enough because I'm such a DD *****. When I do use it, it's almost always dash canceled which always feels super telegraphed and easy to avoid.

 

[Dr Peepee]

yo man ask me about marth's dtilt

but nah really aight I'll add it to da list

 

[KirbyKaze]

Can one simply dial a combo?

PP?

 

[Meneks]

What are some more advance facts with marth that I should know?

Like what are some notable moves from marth that out-prioritizes notable moves from other characters?

and from the other end what are some moves that I should NEVER try to beat?


Any help?

 

[Bones0]

All of Marth's moves outprioritize everyone else's... because he has a sword.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Thanks Peepee/Umbreon. I've never really used Marth's downthrow, I'm kind of an uthrow/fthrow guy, but that makes sense. And yeah, Marth should never jump first vs Falcon. I've eaten 70% or more (or death) for jumping.

 

[Meneks]

All of Marth's moves outprioritize everyone else's... because he has a sword.

so you're saying an uptilt can out prioritize lets say, peach's dsmash?

edit: idk if you're being serious or not lol

 

[ArcNatural]

so you're saying an uptilt can out prioritize lets say, peach's dsmash?

edit: idk if you're being serious or not lol

You're just playing Devil's Advocate, Marth providing he does the right move for the situation pretty much out prioritizes every move in the game. The only two I can think of otherwise are Jiggly's bair and Ganon's fair/ftilt maybe. Though I think Marth's Ftilt probably beats both of them.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Can one simply dial a combo?

PP?

Given the right matchup and proper setup, yeah. You asked this on the Fox boards as well, so if you want to have a more in-depth conversation about this, then hit me up or respond here with concerns I must be missing.

What are some more advance facts with marth that I should know?

Like what are some notable moves from marth that out-prioritizes notable moves from other characters?

and from the other end what are some moves that I should NEVER try to beat?


Any help?

That is extremely vague

But yeah you can outprioritize most anything as long as you call the move and don't end up swinging first/having your move towards them when they have theirs pointed towards you.

Example: Fox's Nair is mad hard to beat with Fair if you do it right when you see the nair come out because that move starts high above your head. You gotta have the Fair done earlier so it is even with Fox when he gets to you.

Marth CAN beat out pretty much anything, but the ways to do that are hard sometimes.

You're just playing Devil's Advocate, Marth providing he does the right move for the situation pretty much out prioritizes every move in the game. The only two I can think of otherwise are Jiggly's bair and Ganon's fair/ftilt maybe. Though I think Marth's Ftilt probably beats both of them.

Marth can pivot grab Puff's SH Bair as well as Ftilt it.

I heard that Marth can dash up SH rising Fair and beat Ganon's Fair. I haven't tested it though.

I dunno if Marth can handle Ganon's Bair that well, that one is really hard for him to just Fair I think. Not sure about Ftilt either now that you mention it...

 

[Roboturner]

That matchup is really, really wild, and high variance, imo. It just shifts from one person getting destroyed to the other.

I don't really understand what Marth is supposed to do to Falcon when Falcon is at 0%, though. Fthrow seems like the go-to, but it's really weak, imo, because Falcon can just DI out and be safe...and upthrow is terrible at low percents because of lag...does Marth just like, swing at him?

I always cringe when I see a Marth whiff an Fsmash, which will more than likely lead to a knee and death.

Sometimes I like doing an Uair low to the ground at low percents to Falcon... is this a good idea if they arent shielding?

 

[Bones0]

Late uairs have good shield stun so you can run away before he can grab if you tipped it, but if they're not shielding, you'll probably just get DD grabbed.

 

[Deleted member]

Thanks Peepee/Umbreon. I've never really used Marth's downthrow, I'm kind of an uthrow/fthrow guy, but that makes sense. And yeah, Marth should never jump first vs Falcon. I've eaten 70% or more (or death) for jumping.

I mean it's a ****ing gay character vs a character that loses to ****ing gayness.

it's not like anyone does the right falcon combo anyway

falcon to marth @ 0: downthrow > regrab downthrow > upair > regrab downthrow > upair/nair > upair > knee

Can one simply dial a combo?

PP?

how to dial-a-combo with marth:

1. base your entire hit confirm game on grab. only grab. never engage the enemy with other moves. don't get ***** by sidestep shine/rest.
2. upthrow
3. uptilt if it will work. if it won't, wait for them to do something and fair or regrab it.
4. smash your face into the A button while pushing the control stick in random directions.

congrats you're a marth combo champion.

 

[Bones0]

Just a tip for 4, instead of having to press the A button and the control stick, you can just smash your face against the C-stick in a random direction. It's much easier.

 

[Zoler]

I mean it's a ****ing gay character vs a character that loses to ****ing gayness.

it's not like anyone does the right falcon combo anyway

falcon to marth @ 0: downthrow > regrab downthrow > upair > regrab downthrow > upair/nair > upair > knee
.

Yea it's definitely the same combo everytime, DI doesn't make any difference.

ohwait

 

[Deleted member]

Yea it's definitely the same combo everytime, DI doesn't make any difference.

ohwait

it doesn't for that one.

not that you'd know because you didn't test it.

 

[leffen]

yes you silly zoler you will get that grab on the same percent everytime and always have enough stage for it and there is no such thing as platforms and di doesnt help lolol esp not sdi or smth like that LOL WHAT ARE YOU THINKING ZOLER

 

[Mahone]

lol, zolers so bad

hes not like us yet leffen

and none of us are like mow yet