Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[Teczer0]

Obv, I'm not cactus but to your last question Reeper, it takes someone with motivation, dedication and perseverance to become good at this game.

Once you get past the 'tech skill' barrier it becomes a battle of losing bad habits, and improving on various aspects of gameplay thats not so definable.

Another thing is that eventually you will hit a wall, and thats where perseverance comes in. You have to accept that you'll hit a period of time where you won't improve at all or feel like you haven't and grit through it.

I always felt that last bit was the major difference between me and Vanz, and thats how Vanz rose to the top level of melee play and why I stayed at the higher levels.

So yes, you could join the ranks of high/top level melee. It won't be an easy ride though.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

Quick question. I was practicing today, as I usually do, and on this particular session I was practicing CG's on fox. I pulled off a pivot grab after the very first uthrow (fox was at 3%). Anybody know the frame data for that? Cause...if you can pivot grab that...why can't you uthrow CG falco if he DI's behind you?

 

[Winston]

Falco is heavier than Fox, so Marth has more lag from the throw

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I have a few questions regarding DI and throws.

Marth/Roy
-Fthrow -> Fthrow
-Fthrow -> Fsmash
I know at ~10% or below these are combos. Afterwards, I know they avoidable by fully DI away. If not, they can be used to get someone offstage and a really poor position to recover. Assuming you are still at lower percents, say 40% tops before fsmash. Can anyone get out of this by using fair or airdodge ignoring correct DI?

-Uthrow -> Utilt
From experience I thought this was a legitimate combo at lower percents, again 30% or so under. However, I noticed I would occasionally get Daired out of it. Is this me being slow or can marth/roy really get out by Dair?

If so, it would be like Uthrow shiek? Where she can get out of Uthrow -> utilt by jumping, but doing that means losing a jump. Take the Combo damage or risk dying from lack of jump.

 

[Wenbobular]

Dair is pretty mad slow, if you're getting Daired stop trying to Uptilt or just do it faster out of throw ... I usually just try to jump if I'm getting thrown up <_<

Why are you practicing on Roy

 

[.Chipmunk.]

Falco is heavier than Fox, so Marth has more lag from the throw

Wait...there is throw lag?

 

[Tee ay eye]

yes, a lot (or all? i think it's just a lot) of throws are slower depending on how heavy the opponent is.

 

[Wenbobular]

It's basically every throw, who cares about wonky exceptions

Heavy characters take sooo long to throw zzzz

Haven't you tried to upthrow Falcon
Marth is like ... "URGH MY POOR EFFEMINATE ARMS"
Whereas Fox is like made of tissue paper or something

 

[Cactuar]

Alright, this question is actually for Cactus.
Why did you stop maining Marth? Is it because you felt like you perfected him?
Do you think aspiring Marths like myself can make it big in todays metagame? If not, why?

Bunch of factors.

I started playing more and more Fox because Marth is bad in teams unless you have a teammate that allows you to be a campy doucheface.

At some point in my smash career, it felt like everyone I played would just camp my Marth forever, and I got really sick of chasing them down.

My Marth style took a serious toll on my brain after playing too long, and I would feel horribly mentally exhausted after tournaments, so I needed to switch to a character that is better in autopilot.

It was so much easier for me to just Fox the hell out of everyone that I lost confidence in my Marth, not Marth in general.

I still think Marth can do somewhat well.

 

[Niko45]

real talk^^

 

[Metal Reeper]

Thanks Cactus. Sounds good

 

[Strong Badam]

because you let him...

oh. okay. thanks for letting me know that I didn't try different things each time.

yes, a lot (or all? i think it's just a lot) of throws are slower depending on how heavy the opponent is.

indeed. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=206469

on the same topic, the 3% marth uthrow on fox probably wasn't while fox was in hitstun. additionally, it's impossible to regrab DI-behind uthrow Falco because 1. his weight is higher 2. his terminal velocity is higher, therefore he resists the throw's knockback and lands faster and 3. it takes 4 frames to turn around before you start dashing.

 

[Winston]

^ I mean, what else can I say? Counter is avoidable (on the stages that have sides)...

 

[KirbyKaze]

If you DI the Counter well, you can side-B immediately to attempt an edge grab.

It's kind of neat. Catches people offguard sometimes.

 

[Dart!]

reference code: sex

Dart bring your *** back to MI soon pls

i second this

lol just saw these.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

Yeah, I just didn't realize the heavier the character the slower the animation played through for the throw. That's what was confusing me. Also, since I'm the question asking mood, I know that you can't IASA a dtilt with shield, but has anybody thought to interrupt with a dash to shield? That's probably what, a few frame differential? What sort of advantages/scenarios could that be used for.

(I'm at that point my game where I'm actually learning spacing and zoning, or...trying to.)

 

[Cactuar]

Yeah, I just didn't realize the heavier the character the slower the animation played through for the throw. That's what was confusing me. Also, since I'm the question asking mood, I know that you can't IASA a dtilt with shield, but has anybody thought to interrupt with a dash to shield? That's probably what, a few frame differential? What sort of advantages/scenarios could that be used for.

(I'm at that point my game where I'm actually learning spacing and zoning, or...trying to.)

Just hold forward to walk while dtilting and holding shield if you want to interrupt dtilt with shield. This is how I've been demonstrating the difference between an a cancelled and non-cancelled dtilt for years.

 

[Wenbobular]

If you DI the Counter well, you can side-B immediately to attempt an edge grab.

It's kind of neat. Catches people offguard sometimes.

Just angle past it, counter blows on stages with sides (except for YS, but that's just because it has goofy edges and not because it's not possible)

 

[Niko45]

If you DI the Counter well, you can side-B immediately to attempt an edge grab.

It's kind of neat. Catches people offguard sometimes.

Yea, that's an easy easy read if you're aware of it. Basically that's the first thing I'm looking for as soon as I land a counter. Can't just auto go off stage after counter.

 

[Tee ay eye]

strong bad
strongbad
magus
magus420

how many frames of hitlag do the following hits have:
-falco's laser
-falco's dair
-sheik's f-tilt
-first hit of falcon's nair
-first hit of fox's uair
-doc's pill

 

[Strong Badam]

assuming fresh:

4
7
5
5
4
5

hitstun on laser/pill would need to be calculated if you wanted something other than on-shield advantage for them, which would actually depend on opponent's damage and staleness for Doc's pill.

 

[Tee ay eye]

so... to get optimum smash DI on those... would it be best to tap straight left/right and then rotate?

 

[Tee ay eye]

also, what about falcon's uair?

 

[Strong Badam]

there are points about 10 degrees off from each cardinal direction where rotational DI is read. you'd probably want to go between those points if you want optimal SDI. tapping straight left/right and rotating would prolly work tho.

7

 

[Tee ay eye]

going by this pic, wouldn't it be most practical to smash straight left/right (a cardinal direction) and then rotate up or down past one of the points where rotational DI is read, giving you two SDI inputs?

"practically" meaning that we can actually apply it, since i really doubt anyone here would be able to do frame-perfect rotational DI

 

[Strong Badam]

honestly more than 1 frame of normal SDI is rarely necessary.
plus you get 1 frame of ASDI from c-stick if you use it.
try it out and see what works best is the best advice i can give as far as SDI inputs go, some people can do the wiggle rotational DI some can't.

 

[Tee ay eye]

alright, that sounds fair

yeah, i've been practicing using SDI against falco's lasers today, and i generally get better success just doing a tap rather than a tap -> rotate because i think trying to rotate it messes with my precision hard. maybe i should focus on just getting a really precise tap and rotating as a bonus that may or may not work.

rotation probably works a lot better against moves like drills or bicycle kicks, though.

damn it i wanna smash so bad right now.

 

[Heart Break Kid]

Ugh too much info. How do you guys remember all these terms and percents and strats lol! And yikes I remember when this thread was made...did you guys know me and Cactuar are in the same crew? Now that is something worth taking away from this thread

 

[Tee ay eye]

what do you guys think about

marth's ledgehop neutral B regrab

 

[.Chipmunk.]

what do you guys think about

marth's ledgehop neutral B regrab

It's actually fairly simple to do, and I know several different ways of doing it just in case one way may not work for you, but in my personal experience it doesn't work all that great because of the epicness that CC's have on Marth on the edge. I prefer to use a variety of other ledge maneuvers to position myself or to simply get back onto the stage and go from there.

 

[MT_]

what do you guys think about

marth's ledgehop neutral B regrab

Looks cool.

 

[MasterShake]

Not applicable unless for surprise factor.

 

[-Vocal-]

Not applicable unless for surprise factor.

Where's Meatwad and Frylocke

 

[Palpi]

@Cactuar, I feel like my fox is harder on my brain, than my marth is. Granted my fox is the character I put all my thought and work into, and marth, a past main, is just a secondary now, I feel like I don't need to think as much, just swing my sword...regardless if I win or lose. I am sure it is different at a higher level of play though

 

[Niko45]

Fox is like 80% pushing buttons correctly and 20% thinking.

Marth is like the opposite.

 

[Wenbobular]

I feel like that's Falco
Fox doesn't have a real laser, at least 30% thinking IMO

 

[Orion*]

I feel like that's Falco
Fox doesn't have a real laser, at least 30% thinking IMO

nair shine might as well be a ****ing laser LMAO

 

[KirbyKaze]

Nair Shine is nowhere near as good as Falco's laser. And being mindless with Nair Shine is a real easy way to lose whereas being mindless with lasers will probably get you stage control (most of the time).

 

[Cactuar]

Ugh too much info. How do you guys remember all these terms and percents and strats lol! And yikes I remember when this thread was made...did you guys know me and Cactuar are in the same crew? Now that is something worth taking away from this thread

<3

TSA all day.

 

[Rubyiris]

what do you guys do when practicing alone? I need some sort of training regime.