Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[Tee ay eye]

LOL
LOL dammit
ask a mod to check my post before it was edited, dude

before i edited the post
it said

"Where the **** is this *****: KFC"

 

[Strong Badam]

nevermind I'm blind apparently

 

[KILLA.FOR.CASH.]

LOL
LOL dammit
ask a mod to check my post before it was edited, dude

before i edited the post
it said

"Where the **** is this *****: KFC"

xD ill be at genesis. let's play. pretty sure you'll beat me this time around hehe

 

[Strong Badam]

Cactuar: are you going to Genesis 2?

 

[MasterShake]

Gonna make that everyone else tier soon.

 

[Walt]

Everyone else: Dart, Niko45, me, Bob$, AustinRC, PewPewU, Fullmetal, Teczero's Marth, JesiahTEG, G$, Diakonos

Bob$ is still there. He wants to go to every tournament, he just has work every saturday. He really wants to go to TAG this saturday so hopefully can get the day off.

 

[Divinokage]

damn, i dont even count as the "everyone else" tier. ****.

You tight, bro? =P

 

[Niko45]

Meh, I'm like bottom tier

Confirming I will not be beating IC's anytime soon. Turns out doing a bunch of aerials to try to kill Nana is extremely time consuming as well and doesn't really seem to work.

 

[Tee ay eye]

Bob$ is still there. He wants to go to every tournament, he just has work every saturday. He really wants to go to TAG this saturday so hopefully can get the day off.

Yeah, I know he's still there. But the abstract "you" in this situation (read: the general Marth community), doesn't see him because he has work on Saturdays.

p.s. Niko, I'm awful against ICs, too.

 

[Niko45]

At least Nintendude told me he thinks Marth is his best matchup, so...I guess I don't feel that bad?

Fighting ICs just takes so much effort cause its like you have to break through the 2 ICs and try to get rid of Nana which isn't easy for Marth then after that Sopo is also not free so it just feels like you're taking 6-8 stocks a match.

...and then still losing at the end of it in my case lol. It's so exhausting and demoralizing.

 

[ChivalRuse]

ICs will wear you down. Lol.

The matchup is all about reading their movement and punishing it efficiently, NOT putting up a wall, since they can slip through your walling with desyncs, dash attacks, wd -> jab/d-smash/f-smash, and wd shield -> bair/uair/nair oos.

 

[Jun.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZoqQP9L49Y
KDJ vs Chudat 2007 MLG Long Island

Sums up IC vs Marth imo

 

[Strong Badam]

ICs will wear you down. Lol.

The matchup is all about reading their movement and punishing it efficiently, NOT putting up a wall, since they can slip through your walling with desyncs, dash attacks, wd -> jab/d-smash/f-smash, and wd shield -> bair/uair/nair oos.

nah i just wall them with DD dtilt.

 

[ChivalRuse]

A deep wavedash will usually get ICs close enough to shieldgrab d-tilt.

There isn't any one thing that you can use to beat them. You just have to outplay them.

 

[Diakonos]

KFC qualifies for everyone else tier at least, lol.

I think Marths need new stuff. It's too easy for other characters to adapt to Marth metagame. That's why I ledgecancel a lot now. It's one of the only things that keeps me not super-predictable.

Also: dash-dance camping is boring. So is waiting near the edge.

 

[Niko45]

I don't really like to simplify to the point where I believe a single match of melee can sum up any entire matchup. Too many stages, too many scenarios for 4 stocks to cover. The fact that the vid is from 2007 certainly doesn't help. :/

 

[MasterShake]

I love ledgecancelling.

Gets rid of that pesky bair and dair lag.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

lol where are Dahean and IB? I know IB has been inactive but if you are gonna include PC, then might as well include him...whatevs tho, thats a pretty solid list.

But yea, I am gonna make that "everyone else" tier pretty soon. Watch your back fellas.

 

[Tee ay eye]

i heard dahean quit but he showed up for pound 5, but i was under the impression that was just a one-time thing

ib is pretty much inactive, too, but i only included PC since he showed up to a No Johns a few weeks ago

 

[Niko45]

Yea PC is really active

 

[ChivalRuse]

Add Shady to that list.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Shady is pretty good but afaik relatively unknown

 

[KAOSTAR]

White: Marths that are there
Blue: Marths that you don't see often nowadays, but I think/hope they're still sorta there

Top tier: Mew2king

High tier: Dr. Peepee's Marth, Scorp/Mango's Marth, TAJ (in my opinion), Amsah's Marth

Everyone else: Dart, Niko45, me, Bob$, AustinRC, PewPewU, Fullmetal, Teczero's Marth, JesiahTEG, G$, Diakonos

??? tier: rusty Azen, rusty Cactuar, Ice, HBK, PC's Marth

lmao @the fact that it says mango/scorp's marth....as if it was possible any of his other characters would make the list of high tier marth players.

 

[Strong Badam]

A deep wavedash will usually get ICs close enough to shieldgrab d-tilt.

There isn't any one thing that you can use to beat them. You just have to outplay them.

dtilt has 6 frames of shieldstun BUT's negated by IC's double shield hitlag. even after considering stale moves it's negated
that makes him like -11 on shield if he tries to dtilt ic's shield. that's why you mix up crouch -> wd back and dash dance into it
but there are no good IC's except like 3

jesus i never realized how broken IC's shield was

 

[Winston]

Is that really how ICs' shield works? I never knew that

 

[Strong Badam]

Yeah, you hit them both. They suffer normal hitlag * shieldstun, but you suffer hitlag from hitting both of them.

 

[ArcNatural]

at 0% can marth cc grab foxes nair shine approach?

If Fox doesn't late nair (or nair so it hits you relatively low on shield) you can CC grab it. I had this whole post describing how I used dash dancing in this matchup regarding Fox spacing but I'm too lazy to go find it (maybe later).

 

[Strong Badam]

12 damage 100 kbg right? wait no one else would know.... i guess I'll check & do the calculation...
9 frames of hitstun, but +4 from CCing halving hitlag, so -5 overall. Nair has 7 frames of landlag. +2. Grab comes out frame 7. -5 overall.
They have to hit you with the nair at least 5 frames before they would normally land for it to work assuming perfect execution.

 

[linkoninja]

I wish the Marth boards were as active as the Falcon/Falco boards

 

[Strong Badam]

There aren't as many Marth players as there are Falcon/Falco players.

 

[linkoninja]

True that, not as many good ones anyways lol.

 

[Strong Badam]

Or players in general.

 

[linkoninja]

Bleh I have a Marth but I still need help working on making it as sexy as other Marth greats throughout the years...

 

[Metal Reeper]

At least the Marth boards discuss things lol.

 

[Jun.]

Marth boards aren't as active because...

Marth sucks.

Honestly Marth is the worst character that people still have adamant complaints about if that makes sense.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Why is it bad to dtilt IC's shield? they can't punish it. 11 frames doesnt give them time to wd OoS anything. The best they could do is wd away and reset spacing. If they WD towards you and you just dtilt repeatedly... they will get hit repeatedly lol


edit- i guess maybe they could fair OoS over a marth who is repeatedly dtilting their shield, but if the marth decided to fsmash or jab or anything.......

 

[Walt]

Marth boards aren't as active because...

Marth sucks.

Honestly Marth is the worst character that people still have adamant complaints about if that makes sense.

No way that's easily [Insert Whatever Charater You Main Here]

 

[Niko45]

Why is it bad to dtilt IC's shield? they can't punish it. 11 frames doesnt give them time to wd OoS anything. The best they could do is wd away and reset spacing. If they WD towards you and you just dtilt repeatedly... they will get hit repeatedly lol


edit- i guess maybe they could fair OoS over a marth who is repeatedly dtilting their shield, but if the marth decided to fsmash or jab or anything.......

Pretty sure if they WD oos they could then cc the next dtilt as it would be at the hilt of the dtilt.

 

[Winston]

-11 was just the figure for marth's frame disadvantage. If you wanted to dtilt again that'd take 6 more frames to happen. I mean, it's unlikely still that they'd wd oos jab you before it comes out since that'd require really tight timing, but its likely that what Niko said would happen - you'd hilt hit them and it would be punishable.

 

[Dark Hart]

Dtilt has always worked well for me vs ICs