Mew2King
King of the Mews
run extra far, and attack. They will run away into your attack. For marth, down tilt is good, but I mix that with other things as well to not be predictible
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Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy
- Thread starter Cactuar
- Start date
Niko45
Smash Master
wow a m2k post
immaculate
immaculate
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Zenith, revived the spirit of the world. =D
Mew2King
King of the Mews
actually tbch im not even confirmed for gen melee singles yet since i can barely contend while switching games, i just felt like helping. I still believe good controller is all i need (plus an hour of practice) to play really well
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
You can do it! Don't let the Europeans win. 
TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
lol "can barely contend"
thats a good one m2k
thats a good one m2k
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Somehow he feels like hes **** when in reality, it's not true lol.
Niko45
Smash Master
Ice Climbers are so hard, guys. What do I do?
Sage Osaka
Smash Ace
From what little I've watched of Kfc vs Choknater, I can say a couple things. Downtilt covers a lot of options of ic's, couple that with staying just inside their range of not being safe by just spamming ice blocks and other projectiles, and just outside their range of fsmash or fair/bair and you should feel pretty good. If you're feeling reactive, try standing in aforementioned range with fairs and if you're feeling proactive, spam nairs and dtilts.
Idk what else to say, but that seemed to shut Choknater down nicely, and he's a pretty damn good ic's, specially against Marth. He beat m2k! <3
Idk what else to say, but that seemed to shut Choknater down nicely, and he's a pretty damn good ic's, specially against Marth. He beat m2k! <3
Niko45
Smash Master
Dtilting forever just feels like a losing battle since if they ever manage to get in they'll even up all that work really fast.
Dtilt to dash attack seems to be a legit ****-stock starter but you have to hit both ICs. It feels like any time I commit to anything I end up getting hit cause Marth sucks at separating them and is just constantly getting ***** off any lag.
Dtilt to dash attack seems to be a legit ****-stock starter but you have to hit both ICs. It feels like any time I commit to anything I end up getting hit cause Marth sucks at separating them and is just constantly getting ***** off any lag.
KILLA.FOR.CASH.
Smash Champion
be extremely patient in this matchup. don't use laggy moved like fsmash or anything unless they are seperated.
use a lot of jabs, and all of your quick moves to keep them away because a lot of ic's like to randomly wavedash in to attack. don't bother with dashdancing in this matchup; it doesn't work very well because ic's have pretty good projectiles and can cover distances extremely fast with their wavedash.
just poke at their shield with fairs and be mindful of when they wavedash in, because that's probably their most vulnerable state. if you're fast enough, you can shorthop a fair as soon as you see them wavedash in, and theyll get hit and hopefully seperated. or just jab and thatll stop their forward wavedash momentum
also, don't get ***** by their shield + blizzard at the same time. don't run into it, marth can't really challenge that so you kind of just have to stay out of that blizzard range, and be extremely attentive to the ic's and what they do in that situation because theyll probably wavedash in, jab to grab or just wavedash to dsmash if you get hit by the blizzard.
use a lot of jabs, and all of your quick moves to keep them away because a lot of ic's like to randomly wavedash in to attack. don't bother with dashdancing in this matchup; it doesn't work very well because ic's have pretty good projectiles and can cover distances extremely fast with their wavedash.
just poke at their shield with fairs and be mindful of when they wavedash in, because that's probably their most vulnerable state. if you're fast enough, you can shorthop a fair as soon as you see them wavedash in, and theyll get hit and hopefully seperated. or just jab and thatll stop their forward wavedash momentum
also, don't get ***** by their shield + blizzard at the same time. don't run into it, marth can't really challenge that so you kind of just have to stay out of that blizzard range, and be extremely attentive to the ic's and what they do in that situation because theyll probably wavedash in, jab to grab or just wavedash to dsmash if you get hit by the blizzard.
Tee ay eye
Smash Hero
is blizzard range > tipper range?
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
No, but it'll usually interrupt the startup animation of an f-smash because Marth extends his hurtbox in the process.
Dart!
Smash Master
well since the matchup HAS to be played on platform stages (this means you should insta ban FD) you can really utilize those to your advantage. drop down fair jump back up waveland off and attack. rinse and repeat on stages with close to the ground plats like PS and YS
Tee ay eye
Smash Hero
well apparently IC players are starting to like YS and FoD. i know fly and wobbles have a tendency to go there
so you might wanna keep that in mind
so you might wanna keep that in mind
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
I don't like YS against Marth. I like having space against him because then he can't kill me. 
Niko45
Smash Master
I feel like fair camping is ok but it's exploitable because ICs have good aerials to punish you if they predict you going on a platform.
Jun.
Smash Lord
IC's don't have to predict anything. They'll just throw a Nana at you, literally. A blizzard nana.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
ICs got that Nanapult.
ChaseRLewis
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- May 30, 2011
- Messages
- 6
Thanks. I blame Kos-mos (think that's what he's known on in these boards) talked smash theory with him for years even though I didn't play, lol. Ya wavedashing imo is absolutely essential to marth's games as it leaves him all his attack options while he moves.
One more question: DD = Dash Dancing? Like dashing backwards when you expect a grab than dash back in for the counter? Ya need to do that more. Counter probably is char specific like grab for spacies or peach at low% and higher percent Fair combo's and fsmashes.
MasterShake
Smash Lord
KFC, do you mean jab to poke their shield? If they wavedash in couldn't they just cc the jab or have that weird wavedash momentum where the jab doesn't knock them back far enough?
All I remember from playing choknater was campingp dtilt and fair. I thought fsmash was kind of good though since Nana has weird shielding tendencies and sometimes you can kill her? Though I always target Nana first and focus on Popo second so idk if that's even the right way to approach the mu.
All I remember from playing choknater was campingp dtilt and fair. I thought fsmash was kind of good though since Nana has weird shielding tendencies and sometimes you can kill her? Though I always target Nana first and focus on Popo second so idk if that's even the right way to approach the mu.
KILLA.FOR.CASH.
Smash Champion
i don't use dtilt a lot vs climbers because i feel it's not reactive enough in any situation. I feel it's not that good of a move cus it's laggy, (or maybe i'm just sucky with IASA frames)
also i meant jabbing them when they wavedash in. I'm, pretty sure if you catch them with the very tip of your jab, it'll hit them farther than hitting them with the inside of your jab. but mostly I like to just space fairs :D it's so gay and effective
mainly try to stop them from being able to rely on wavedashing, cus its their main movement skill
also i meant jabbing them when they wavedash in. I'm, pretty sure if you catch them with the very tip of your jab, it'll hit them farther than hitting them with the inside of your jab. but mostly I like to just space fairs :D it's so gay and effective
mainly try to stop them from being able to rely on wavedashing, cus its their main movement skill
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
VS Icies:
The most important thing to note is that Icies can't really challenge you air vs air, and Marth is most exposed when shffling (literally if they guess anything they can hit or clang with you). I agree with KFC where DD in this matchup is pretty useless.
Just treat this match as a wall-off match. You need to create a wall of fairs/dtilt/nair/ftilt/jab/overb/etc. that starts at whatever range your comfortable with and as you get more confident that they can't penetrate your defense, just get closer and closer forcing them to do something.
The most important thing to do is to just keep your wall random against good Icies, as they have ways around/timings for most of these moves down so if you spam one set they will eventually wreck you for it.
Dthrow and Fthrow are both decent in the matchup in specific situations, playing against Icies you know the risk of trying to grab them when they are together.
LEARN THE NANA COMBOS. This is grossly underestimated or forgotten about because "It's so easy to hit Nana" once you've split them. Any time you split them, especially if your within dashing distance of an edge you should be able to kill Nana in 2-3 hits max. Some variation of fair to dair, some type of knock-off followed by a well spaced jab/ftilt/dtilt to ruin her double jump. Fair is horrible for knocking her out of her second jump typically, bair/nair/grounded move is much better for the gauranteed ruined jump.
I can not state how important it is to be able to straight up kill Nana whenever there is a split that you have time to do so. Doing something like fair -> fsmash against Nana is dumb considering the lag from Fsmash will get you grabbed and Nana will DI up so she will probably make it back unless it's a tipper. Where if you just fair turn around wait for double jump and sh/fj bair off the stage you get away from Popo and knock nana away at a much lower trajectory.
The most important thing to note is that Icies can't really challenge you air vs air, and Marth is most exposed when shffling (literally if they guess anything they can hit or clang with you). I agree with KFC where DD in this matchup is pretty useless.
Just treat this match as a wall-off match. You need to create a wall of fairs/dtilt/nair/ftilt/jab/overb/etc. that starts at whatever range your comfortable with and as you get more confident that they can't penetrate your defense, just get closer and closer forcing them to do something.
The most important thing to do is to just keep your wall random against good Icies, as they have ways around/timings for most of these moves down so if you spam one set they will eventually wreck you for it.
Dthrow and Fthrow are both decent in the matchup in specific situations, playing against Icies you know the risk of trying to grab them when they are together.
LEARN THE NANA COMBOS. This is grossly underestimated or forgotten about because "It's so easy to hit Nana" once you've split them. Any time you split them, especially if your within dashing distance of an edge you should be able to kill Nana in 2-3 hits max. Some variation of fair to dair, some type of knock-off followed by a well spaced jab/ftilt/dtilt to ruin her double jump. Fair is horrible for knocking her out of her second jump typically, bair/nair/grounded move is much better for the gauranteed ruined jump.
I can not state how important it is to be able to straight up kill Nana whenever there is a split that you have time to do so. Doing something like fair -> fsmash against Nana is dumb considering the lag from Fsmash will get you grabbed and Nana will DI up so she will probably make it back unless it's a tipper. Where if you just fair turn around wait for double jump and sh/fj bair off the stage you get away from Popo and knock nana away at a much lower trajectory.
Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
KFC = Killa For Cash? LOVE YOUR MARTH.
Isn't DB1 good against IC's?
Isn't DB1 good against IC's?
Niko45
Smash Master
Yoooo Arc. I think that part about nana killing is really huge and is the major thing im missing.
often i separate them and just fsmash her out of habit, then popo runs back over and grabs me, pummels a couple of times allowing nana to recover so now im getting ***** off my own openings. I def have to focus on killing nana efficiently. I get really greedy and try to go after popo instead of nana too much too.
often i separate them and just fsmash her out of habit, then popo runs back over and grabs me, pummels a couple of times allowing nana to recover so now im getting ***** off my own openings. I def have to focus on killing nana efficiently. I get really greedy and try to go after popo instead of nana too much too.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Marth's side b isn't very good in most matchups, ICs included.
Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
It's faster and has more range than jab. Can pop some characters up, sometimes for an Utilt>maybe kill.
If you catch someone with DB1 as they jump or before they land you can get to DB3 on em.
If you catch someone with DB1 as they jump or before they land you can get to DB3 on em.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
It's still too risky. D-tilt accomplishes the things that you'd be using side b for primarily anyway.
Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
Yeah, of course their are better options but the more you know.
All about dat fair/dtilt spam unfortunately.
Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
eh Late fair>dtilt is pretty cool guy, ****s over CC's and doesn't afraid of anything
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
Yeah for example, if nana misses a tech near the edge, sh fair to dbj dair is gauranteed if you do it right, so rather than doing something that makes them miss tech and fsmash near edge (which keeps them together), you can just recognize and sh rising fair, to dbj dair or nair if you want a faster recovery and guarantee the Nana kill.Yoooo Arc. I think that part about nana killing is really huge and is the major thing im missing.
often i separate them and just fsmash her out of habit, then popo runs back over and grabs me, pummels a couple of times allowing nana to recover so now im getting ***** off my own openings. I def have to focus on killing nana efficiently. I get really greedy and try to go after popo instead of nana too much too.
I do agree that a majority of the matchup is well spaced fairs/dtilts. But I do think it's important to mix up with DB/jab/ftilt/other wall moves to keep them from getting comfortable with your wall off pattern on occasion.
Niko45
Smash Master
When are we playing again, man. You're always so insightful.
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
Genesis D:?
I'm going to be playing a lot this coming month to warm up for Genesis, but IDK if I'll be heading near NY at all heh. Probably not even going to Mass Madness this weekend.
Max?
Smash Champion
Arc if you come down to NY you know I got you on housing, or can atleast point you in the right direction.
TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
Damn ARC that was really helpful.
Chu Datz is shaking in his boots. :o
Chu Datz is shaking in his boots. :o
Tee ay eye
Smash Hero
White: Marths that are there
Blue: Marths that you don't see often nowadays, but I think/hope they're still sorta there
Top tier: Mew2king
High tier: Dr. Peepee's Marth, Scorp/Mango's Marth, TAJ (in my opinion), Amsah's Marth
Everyone else: Dart, Niko45, me, Bob$, AustinRC, PewPewU, Fullmetal, Teczero's Marth, JesiahTEG, G$, Diakonos
??? tier: rusty Azen, rusty Cactuar, Ice, HBK, PC's Marth
Blue: Marths that you don't see often nowadays, but I think/hope they're still sorta there
Top tier: Mew2king
High tier: Dr. Peepee's Marth, Scorp/Mango's Marth, TAJ (in my opinion), Amsah's Marth
Everyone else: Dart, Niko45, me, Bob$, AustinRC, PewPewU, Fullmetal, Teczero's Marth, JesiahTEG, G$, Diakonos
??? tier: rusty Azen, rusty Cactuar, Ice, HBK, PC's Marth
KILLA.FOR.CASH.
Smash Champion
damn, i dont even count as the "everyone else" tier. ****.