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Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy
- Thread starter Cactuar
- Start date
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
What matchup does your question apply to?
You never want to full jump in neutral against Fox, that's for sure. >_>
You never want to full jump in neutral against Fox, that's for sure. >_>
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
SH late fairs are good. If Doc gets close to you, full hop rising fair is pretty safe.
makoforce
Smash Ace
whats the deal with 2007 m2k. what did he do that was different than what we do now.
inediblevermin
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2011
- Messages
- 1
how do I aerial attack back onto the stage from hanging off the edge? (like an nair, i see m2k use it alot).
Fortress | Sveet
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press either down or away from the edge and you will fall, then immediately jump and aerial and move your character onto the stage
Niko45
Smash Master
He was already really comfortable with the tech skill and spacing that a lot of Marths are still trying to master.
Plus everyone else missed more L cancels and got gimped easier than they do now.
makoforce
Smash Ace
do you think 07 m2k would still be as good?
Niko45
Smash Master
Definitely not. I don't think in a vacuum his Marth in 07 is better than his Marth is now. He has just fallen behind relative to the rest of the field now. He hasn't been inactive to the point where I think he's actually worse at the game than he used to be, he just hasn't improved at the rate that, say, Falco players have since that time.
Like for instance he didn't have to deal with a Falco doing dair shine fade dair fsmash on his shield in 07. His 07 Marth would probably try to shield grab that and get hit, where as now he won't fall for that.
Like for instance he didn't have to deal with a Falco doing dair shine fade dair fsmash on his shield in 07. His 07 Marth would probably try to shield grab that and get hit, where as now he won't fall for that.
Fortress | Sveet
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07 M2K would be like... 25th at pound
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
m2k used to be so much faster and cleaner
but he is indeed smarter now
but he is indeed smarter now
Fortress | Sveet
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idk, m2k showers more than he used to
makoforce
Smash Ace
yea but marth has advanced alot. Back then i didnt see much OoS WD.
booshk
Smash Lord
- Joined
- May 14, 2006
- Messages
- 1,104
true dat
i heart m2k
earla
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2008
- Messages
- 1,422
MARTH EDGE GUARDING:
optimal edgeguarding options verse
fox, falco, falcon, marth, jiggs, peach, sheik, ic's, doc, ganon, samus??
if someone could explain to me how to cover each of their recovery options in most situations that would be much appreicated.
optimal edgeguarding options verse
fox, falco, falcon, marth, jiggs, peach, sheik, ic's, doc, ganon, samus??
if someone could explain to me how to cover each of their recovery options in most situations that would be much appreicated.
Dart!
Smash Master
Winnar
Smash Lord
Regarding the whole '07 M2K thing:
The reason M2K was so scary in '07 was a result of how much time he spent thinking about the game. He studied the hell out of everyone and invented responses to every situation we had seen at the time. If M2K was still that devoted to thinking about the game and actively playing Melee, he would be much much scarier in tournament than he is now. And he is still a very big threat.
This is really what should be referred to when citing '07 M2K.
The reason M2K was so scary in '07 was a result of how much time he spent thinking about the game. He studied the hell out of everyone and invented responses to every situation we had seen at the time. If M2K was still that devoted to thinking about the game and actively playing Melee, he would be much much scarier in tournament than he is now. And he is still a very big threat.
This is really what should be referred to when citing '07 M2K.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
m2k is the 2007 melee algorithm
Jonas
Smash Champion
So he really was a robot back then? :O
Retroking2000
Smash Master
armada is what mew2king would have been if he played peach in 07 lol
Palpi
Smash Hero
I agree with everything you said, for I didn't even know most of it...but I still think Mew2king is (much) better now, than in 07. Especially his fox.
Jun.
Smash Lord
I actually think its because Fox had more potential to grow as a character than Marth. Marth is so "stale" these days if you know what i mean.
Fortress | Sveet
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Marth is still in the top 5 characters in the game. He has serious potential.
Jun.
Smash Lord
ask yourself
how much has Marth changed since 07 compared to fox/falco
why would he move DOWN the tier list. I'm speaking in relative to the other characters. Never said he was bad.
how much has Marth changed since 07 compared to fox/falco
why would he move DOWN the tier list. I'm speaking in relative to the other characters. Never said he was bad.
Fortress | Sveet
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ummm how have fox/falco changed since 07? jman plays like a mini pc chris
Jun.
Smash Lord
... are you really serious?
06-07 fox/falco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNCy31huv7E
Current fox/falco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMg_3c93pKE&feature=related
Mind you both matches have top level players of the times so I'm not comparing apples to oranges here.
06-07 fox/falco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNCy31huv7E
Current fox/falco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMg_3c93pKE&feature=related
Mind you both matches have top level players of the times so I'm not comparing apples to oranges here.
Palpi
Smash Hero
In 06-07 people dash attacked a lot with fox, atleast against non FFers...it looks so ugly.
Jun.
Smash Lord
they also do a lot of full hopped aerials which you won't be caught dead doing these days due to the progression of attacks out of shield.
check a Marth vid for example Ken's vids vs current Marths and other than the pace of the game, the playstyles are mostly the same. A tad more wd out of shields is the only major thing I can think of between the Marths through time. Ken/M2K just played Marth to his limit and until someone comes and radically changes Marth, he's mostly still the same old Marth that Ken invented.
check a Marth vid for example Ken's vids vs current Marths and other than the pace of the game, the playstyles are mostly the same. A tad more wd out of shields is the only major thing I can think of between the Marths through time. Ken/M2K just played Marth to his limit and until someone comes and radically changes Marth, he's mostly still the same old Marth that Ken invented.
Dart!
Smash Master
How can you say that though?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FycI-BCmpuY (Ken vs PC Chris) *i cringe everytime falcos offstage. ken never leaves the stage to edgeguard. not once.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qna80MbcAAc (m2k vs shiz) "The current style of marth?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA4v_Hq8nkU&feature=related(falcomist vs shiz) Hmm...
what i think it comes down to is, marth's game vs spacies had advanced so spacies had to step up their pressure game and overall tech skill to what todays standards are.
Maybe marth's overall "look" hasn't changed much, but when broken down, it's not at all the same as it used to be.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FycI-BCmpuY (Ken vs PC Chris) *i cringe everytime falcos offstage. ken never leaves the stage to edgeguard. not once.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qna80MbcAAc (m2k vs shiz) "The current style of marth?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA4v_Hq8nkU&feature=related(falcomist vs shiz) Hmm...
what i think it comes down to is, marth's game vs spacies had advanced so spacies had to step up their pressure game and overall tech skill to what todays standards are.
Maybe marth's overall "look" hasn't changed much, but when broken down, it's not at all the same as it used to be.
Relating to something I posted a long time ago (Melee gameplay consists of "Push and Pull" and "Punishment"), Marth's Push and Pull game has really not changed in years. All that is different now is the Punishment game. And barely.
makoforce
Smash Ace
Well it took sheik awhile to break through considiring it was last year. Maybe marth can have one this year.
Hellsinglover999
Smash Journeyman
is there any way to practice the chaingrab on spacies by yourself?
stelzig
Smash Lord
Try mixing up the levels you play against so you aren't too familiar with the DI on your throw. Level4 seems to change its DI every once in a while, but not too often and gets predictable if you play against it too much as well.
You can also just play against level4 and really try to focus on not just going the direction you know it will, but react every time, you should see eventually if you aren't doing this when it does one if its out of the ordinary DIs... That's what I did mostly when I practiced it, I somewhat think switching between levels alot might be better though.
Oh, and I recommend looking focusing at the point/height where the character you throw will end up when you throw, that made it alot easier for me to react to their DI when I realised this.
You can also just play against level4 and really try to focus on not just going the direction you know it will, but react every time, you should see eventually if you aren't doing this when it does one if its out of the ordinary DIs... That's what I did mostly when I practiced it, I somewhat think switching between levels alot might be better though.
Oh, and I recommend looking focusing at the point/height where the character you throw will end up when you throw, that made it alot easier for me to react to their DI when I realised this.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Make sure you understand how DI influences what you have to do to get a regrab. If they DI neutrally you can regrab by just standing in place until 25-30% (when you have to pivot grab). If they DI in front, you don't have to run forward and jump cancel grab until about 25% I believe. If they DI behind, you can turn around regrab until about 30%.
M2K knows all the percentages better than me, obviously. But that's a good place to start.
(Also, remember to account for the 7-8 frame startup of the grab hitbox when timing the grab itself).
AlcyoNite
Smash Champion
pivot grab vs falco around 27% and fox around 22%
u may have to pivot grab a couple of times
m2k will u tilt fox around 16% and jab reset to avoid having to pivot
he also tends to d-throw falco at some random(?) percent before 27 into dancing blade (sword dance :D )
recently, ive seen him u-tilt fox w/ full away DI around 10% to jab reset -> this is the most effective mixup ive seen from him so far beyond maybe f throw to fair to regrab because that usually leads into edgeguard opportunities
im sure the specific percents for the cgs on both fox and falco are stickied in the MU thread
u may have to pivot grab a couple of times
m2k will u tilt fox around 16% and jab reset to avoid having to pivot
he also tends to d-throw falco at some random(?) percent before 27 into dancing blade (sword dance :D )
recently, ive seen him u-tilt fox w/ full away DI around 10% to jab reset -> this is the most effective mixup ive seen from him so far beyond maybe f throw to fair to regrab because that usually leads into edgeguard opportunities
im sure the specific percents for the cgs on both fox and falco are stickied in the MU thread
Fortress | Sveet
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my favorite thing is when fox/falco tries the slight DI behind around 12-17% and you can hit with the back side tipper utilt into regrab or fsmash or more utilts
Kanelol
Smash Lord
I dunno, I can't link more than 2 or 3 grabs on a lvl 1 cpu, god forbid I try to throw in an u-tilt
On my friends Fox I can chaingrab for days and days and days and days
Practicing against real people is the only way to learn. And look for DI
On my friends Fox I can chaingrab for days and days and days and days
Practicing against real people is the only way to learn. And look for DI
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
You can easily do the full CG to Fsmash tipper against lvl 1 cpu foxes. Except occasionally on the first grab they always DI full behind usually. It does train you to have to hit the control stick hard in the opposite direction when grabbing to prevent you from going into the turn around animation which if you try to JC grab out of you will grab in the direction you were facing originally.