Social C. Falcon Social

[KUSH.]

lmao he looks like such a harmless, benign round-faced Asian, Johnny does.

lol read in yodas voice

 

[RFrizzle]

Any tips on the Ylink matchup? It's mad silly.

 

[ShrieK1295]

Get about one foxtrot distance away from him and then wait for him to do something and **** him up.

 

[unknown522]

Spam moves at him.

But seriously, he is real combo food for falcons. Just throw/stomp -> u-air/regrab a bunch of times until you can either knee or until you have knocked him off.

N-air outside of his CC -> d-smash range and if he pulls bombs, then don't let him throw it since you're so much faster than him.

Edgeguarding: just b-air/u-air/knee him out of anything he tries. If you want to be gay, then grab the ledge and abuse invincibility like how you would edgeguard link/samus. If you see him go low, then you can SHFF off and b-air him out of his up-b, or hit him out of his grapple attempt.

CC all his non-bomb moves and DI downwards/away from him if you're in the air/committed to something and are not at kill percent.

IMO, it is YL's worst matchup in the game. It's hard to combo good falcons because of his weight + fall speed and in turn, YL gets ***** by combos.

 

[Morin0]

Wait, what kind of points go on your permanent record then o__O

That I'm not too sure of but I imagine it's something severe. I know posting pornography is an automatic permanent ban and there's also a copyright violation but I don't think those points are permanent. I think there's a thread here where you can read to find out about that!

 

[FerrishTheFish]

Any tips on the Ylink matchup? It's mad silly.

You can go ape-**** on him pretty safely if you can land that first hit, I agree that keeping him in foxtrot/SHFFL range is the best way to do this.

After you get the first hit/combo, you can continue ruining his day if you think it's safe or else run to the other end of the map and shield or jump over all his **** (on reaction--don't try to read, or that boomerang will **** you up). As a former Link main/YLink second, I can tell you that when someone gets a % or stock advantage on Link/YLink and then just camps in place, it is immensely frustrating and depressing for the guy with the Triforce. If the stage is too small for you to camp him like that, then the stage is also too small for him to camp you. There is no approach of Y/Link's that can't be countered with dashdance -> bair, just watch those disjointed hitboxes on YLink and respect that fj nair seven years later. Ignore all the other tricksies, they're generally more show-biz than substance.

You'll get edgeguarded pretty easily by a competent Triforce of Courage, or at least take ****-tons of damage on the way back, so know what moves will put you offstage and learn what your opponent does to try to lead into them. Every owner of a Triforce is vulnerable to the [anything] -> knee combo, so keep that in mind when you need to put him offstage. Edgeguard him the same way you would edgeguard Marth.

Basically, don't get hit by the bombs in the air or by the boomerang in close range, don't get comboed off of grabs (don't get grabbed at all, jump over it and stomp), don't get put offstage too often, don't panic, and you'll be fine.

 

[tarheeljks]

I edited out the censor dodges from his previous two posts in this thread so he wouldn't get banned. Other mods look in here, too, and can hand out infractions for that stupid stuff. Johnny must have done something on another board to get banned, though I don't think I'm allowed to say what.

this is weird if true*. although i suppose as long as the person knows exactly why they were banned then it doesn't really matter

that you "couldn't," not saying you should

 

[Juggleguy]

The person who gets an infraction can always see exactly why they got an infraction. And mods can always see exactly why certain people got an infraction. I just don't know if we can share that info with the rest of the Smashboards public, and I don't feel like reading through the mod handbook for the answer.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

s2j was trolling the diablo 3 thread which hylian, mic, and utd zac happen to frequent. He would go into the thread and just bash the game for no reason. He did it a bunch of times in a row so he probably got infracted after a while. http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14848030&postcount=2617

 

[S l o X]

IMO, it is YL's worst matchup in the game. It's hard to combo good falcons because of his weight + fall speed and in turn, YL gets ***** by combos.

i dont believe this at all.

everytime i play the matchup (lolyoshistory) i feel like how fast i am doesnt even matter because im constantly 1. dodging or 2. getting hit.

i mean yea once i get a hit its super combos but fox does the same thing but better and is a smaller target. and he has this one frame move that deflects ******** things and doesnt need to approach.

i mean i must say im pretty ****ing terrible at the matchup and the last time i played it i was really bad but once i switched to falco / sheik it was clear how much easier both those characters have it.

basically im saying sheik/fox does everything better. not sure about falco 100% but you know . . . its falco.

 

[FerrishTheFish]

I hate Sheik when I play YL. Falcon, Fox, and Falco all make me wary, but at least I know I can edgeguard them decently (and you can kill Falco with one dash attack or dsmash if your edgeguarding reaction is good). YLink can combo all three spacies under certain conditions, but I have yet to discover anything even close to guaranteed against Sheik. Even Sheiks much worse than me could **** me up with just basic Sheik stuff like grabs and tilts.

YLink is pretty good against all floaties, including Peach and Puff (obv.) Some ppl think he is also good against all fatties--I've had some success with YLink vs. Ganon, although I'm sure it's still in Ganon's favor.

 

[Strong Badam]

s2j was trolling the diablo 3 thread which hylian, mic, and utd zac happen to frequent. He would go into the thread and just bash the game for no reason. He did it a bunch of times in a row so he probably got infracted after a while. http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14848030&postcount=2617

LOL what? that's absurd. that'd be like infracting someone for calling Brawl a bad game

wait... they do that....

swf best forum

darkrain is the man

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Well the problem seems to arise in how you express your opinion.

 

[RFrizzle]

Seconded Strong Bad

 

[S l o X]

should talk about falcon vs falco on fd.

i really think im gonna start banning fd over fod in that matchup

 

[Tee ay eye]

Spam moves at him.

But seriously, he is real combo food for falcons. Just throw/stomp -> u-air/regrab a bunch of times until you can either knee or until you have knocked him off.

N-air outside of his CC -> d-smash range and if he pulls bombs, then don't let him throw it since you're so much faster than him.

Edgeguarding: just b-air/u-air/knee him out of anything he tries. If you want to be gay, then grab the ledge and abuse invincibility like how you would edgeguard link/samus. If you see him go low, then you can SHFF off and b-air him out of his up-b, or hit him out of his grapple attempt.

CC all his non-bomb moves and DI downwards/away from him if you're in the air/committed to something and are not at kill percent.

IMO, it is YL's worst matchup in the game. It's hard to combo good falcons because of his weight + fall speed and in turn, YL gets ***** by combos.

im not quite sure if falcon is YL's WORST matchup

 

[JMan8891]

Wouldn't his worst matchup still be falco?

 

[AXE 09]

I think it's Fox =/

 

[S l o X]

fox falco and sheik all do better against YL than falcon like i said.

 

[Tee ay eye]

I think it's Fox =/

i also think it's fox

since 100% of my yl exp comes from you

 

[KirbyKaze]

Who cares YL isn't viable vs FFers anyway

We should all know this by now

Floaties or bust

 

[leffen]

YL is still viable against FFs because people don't know the matchup yet... and will never know the matchup half as well as any decent young link main.

Same thing with Puff against Fox/Falco... how often do you think most top players play a top level jiggs outside of Hbox? Compare that to Hbox playing spacies vs puff 70% of the time he holds his controller... the results will automatically be skewed (and thats what matters anyway)

Realistically when you'd play a spacie main with YL/random low tier the "skill" ratio needed to win would very likely not be far from 50/50 or possibly even in your favor, just because of a difference in experience.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Puff fares a lot better vs spacies than YL does naturally though. Not really fair to compare them that way.

Puff also has a lot more going for her in terms of cheese and nonsense wins. YL is a lot worse at those.

YL is not very good. The ability to spontaneously kill people is very valuable in terms of beating people when you're depending on them not knowing the MU. Just ask Pikachu or Ganon. YL struggles really hard in this respect.

He's also a character who depends on a set up vs characters whose super fast AC lasers actually swat one of his main set up moves (the bomb) with barely any commitment on the part of the space animal.

He's a character with a horrible OOS game vs the best shield pressure characters.

Like, it's really bad. I really do think that in the absence of a CG or super powerful gimmick(s), bad characters do need to work harder than their top tier opponents to win. Fox / Falco are conveniently really good vs YL's gimmicks... and he doesn't have a super lame 0-60%+ combo on them that works on over half the stages to lame them out via raw punishment.

 

[FerrishTheFish]

... and he doesn't have a super lame 0-60%+ combo on them that works on over half the stages to lame them out via raw punishment.

SWF: Please do not listen to this fool. He's clearly never even heard of tech-chasing with dash attacks.

Trolling aside, I do think Leffen has a point. I once lost to a Falco with my Falcon, only to turn around and **** him up with DK.

Granted, over 90% of the Falcos who can beat my Falcon probably wouldn't be too put off by my DK, which is precisely why I usually don't CP DK when I lose round 1 to a Falco. And depending on such a gimmicky strategy is stupid to begin with, because it basically gives them 8 whole stocks to figure out a way around your gimmick (including possibly a CP stage or character), and once they do, you lose.

I think you do have to remember that the tiers were created with the assumption that MUs were played by players too good to fall for each other's gimmicks. If we include gimmicks, tho, I have to agree with KK that Link's and YL's gimmicks ... kinda suck. G&W planking, Yoshi dj-canceling, Roy fsmashing/suicide countering, Kirby doing his ... Swallow-ciding thing where you die but he still lives--these gimmicks will all **** you over until you get good enough (at the MU or in general) to not fall for them. Even against ****ty players, bombs won't win games for you the way planking or Swallow-ciding will.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Dash attack knocks over at 0?

If you're going to troll me at least put some effort in plz.

 

[unknown522]

Lol

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL dash attack op dude

 

[KUSH.]

Ferrish i feel like u post insanely long responses and get shut down errytime. Lol but anways this is mad random but if falcon uses all aerials in one combo it should be called the ALL STAR COMBO

 

[FerrishTheFish]

If Falcon ends any combo with a Falcon Kyek, it should be called a Kyombo.

 

[Nakamaru]

If Falcon ends any combo with a Falcon Kyek, it should be called a Kyombo.

I do this all the time.

Fullhop Uair > falling knee is aight, but Fullhop Uair > falcon kick is just manly.

 

[kyaputenfarukon07]

If Falcon ends any combo with a Falcon Kyek, it should be called a Kyombo.

This is not melee but still Kyombo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmUxB89XfoM&t=1m52s

 

[FerrishTheFish]

I do this all the time.

Fullhop Uair > falling knee is aight, but Fullhop Uair > falcon kick is just manly.

I don't do it all the time, but I do it when I get THAT uair, the one where they KNOW it will end with a double-jump knee so they DI it wrong on purpose, THAT'S when I double-jump Falcon Kyek.

Moral of the story? Falcon Kyek the way you would want to be Falcon Kyeked.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Any combo that leads falcon kick into side b knee is a vro zone

 

[Zhea]

While we are talking about low tier match ups, how do you kill pikachu? Not the general game plan stuff(from what I understand it's a lot of down throw tech chases and nairs), but how do you take dthrows or nairs on pikachu and turn them into stocks? Their is a criminally small amount of info on this match up on the falcon boards on this guy besides a few posts by Axe.

 

[mers]

While we are talking about low tier match ups, how do you kill pikachu? Not the general game plan stuff(from what I understand it's a lot of down throw tech chases and nairs), but how do you take dthrows or nairs on pikachu and turn them into stocks? Their is a criminally small amount of info on this match up on the falcon boards on this guy besides a few posts by Axe.

Dthrow is seriously unbeatable. If they DI in/up, knee combos, which can usually be followed by just about anything. If they DI down/away, they get to tech, but Pika's techroll is so garbage that your followups are simple. You can cover tech in place/missed tech with an aerial and still follow up the techroll. At super low percents, you can often regrab and reset the situation.

And if they DI down and away but go offstage, do one of those deep fastfalled knees because that combos too. Just don't do it at low enough percents that they can recover and beat you to the ledge.

Otherwise, avoid being grabbed and remember not to fall into the easy rising uair setups (OOS, or when pika overshoots a nair on your shield) and you should be fine.

Edgeguarding can be a little tricky, but I've had great luck with stomping the ledge to cover that as well as the onstage recovery. If they go onstage the stomp often hits them onto the floor where they can tech, but again Pika's tech options are useless and you should be able to punish from there.

Pika can edgeguard you pretty easily, so if you're offstage you're generally ****ed. If you can recover high, do it, especially if you can ledgecancel up-B.

 

[dkuo]

various tips on killing the rat from the rat's perspective

Spoiler

smaller stages = faster kills, larger stages = easier to win encounters (you're faster so you get to control space better) so cp'ing should be off how you feel. just remember pika can gimp you on any stage, while for you it'll only take longer to kill pika on larger stages. always ban fd unless you're confident you wont be grabbed (and remember pika's grab range is tiny)

nair > grab works well but you can easily miss the grab if you try to grab right when pika lands, since he lands really low. its dumb make sure you grab while pika's still airborne, or if you're feeling good wait for when you can grab his shield

if he's above you you can uair the **** out of pika and keep him in a terrible position, just be wary of falling dair/fair/airdodge cheese if it's hitting him particularly far. uair can also link into knee in certain situations

actually you probably don't need me to tell you what links into knee, lots of **** link into knee. primary pika-killing method. any time you see a knee opening during a combo at mid/high % you should go for it.

dthrow > knee works well if you dthrow asap after the grab, there's virtually no time to react to that since pika's so light and you'll end up throwing super fast. or you can regrab lol

framewise pika's techroll isn't any different from others (see <here>) but compared to inplace tech it's pretty bad, not to mention he techrolls a very short distance which makes it easier to cover with falcon's speed

the reason inplace tech is so good is because pika and pichu both have 4 extra frames of invulnerability for tech in place which means they only have 2 frames after tech where they can't do anything and are vulnerable

on that note pikas REALLY like teching in place and doing something out of it really fast (ie buffer spotdodge or fast dsmash or something) which can be punished pretty hard if you catch on. ideally you'll be covering tech in place to begin with though and going off that into punishing techrolls as mers stated

most effective way to edgeguard imo is guard as you would guard a shiek (hog > punish onstage recovery) just refresh so you don't get hit by upb or dj uair cheese. if you're confident you can cover sweetspot angles with aerials (offstage aerial or onstage stomp), but remember pika can change angle/timing.

(didn't test this yet) pika can only change his sweetspot timing on a 50/50 basis (1-zip or 2-zip) which might be fully covered by runoff backwards dj nair (assuming you're covering all angles with it)...so if you're feeling experimental you should test this for me lol. maybe uair works too except itll only cover 50/50 or something

if pika's upb doesn't sweetspot, remember it's like luigi's upb in that he can't change his trajectory for a long time. also he keeps his horizontal momentum out of it so ie if his last zip is horizontal he'll be falling forward for a bit and he can't change this for a considerable time. his upb landing lag is huge so knee dat. or grab or w/e idk

knee/uair him out of bad side+b recoveries. make sure you can reach or he'll just tailspike you or something if you miss lmao

hope that helps

 

[gravy]

How safe are all of falcons aerials on shield? Should I be able to always gentleman before I get shield grabbed or shined or something like that, or do I have to dash out and punish like that?

 

[Wenbobular]

Late unstaled knee is +frames on shield, and even if it's stale grab takes 7 frames and jab is like 2 or something
But they can always grab your gentleman, so you have to mix up gentlemans and jab jab dash
I usually just knee -> run away <_< jabbing their shield is only good if they're trying to shield grab you while not holding down

 

[gravy]

What are the frame advantages on nair, bair, uair and stomp? Do the same things apply?

 

[ShrieK1295]

Don't stomp the front of their shield unless you are spaced outside grab range. Bair and Nair can be safe on the front of the shield but you still want to space them so you don't have to jab afterward.