Brawl Robocop Rule Set

[Nicks]

i think for doubles we should include as many stages as possible. i.e RC, norfair, hanenbow etc because more stage = more fun and camping (on norfair for example) isnt really an issue in doubles.

Also i vote PS2 over Lylat for neutral.

 

[luke_atyeo]

seeing as how mic knows nothing about this game and thought that the shyguys on yoshis island acted in the same way as the bricks on green greens, if he's in the bbr, then clearly the real achievment is to NOT be in bbr, hence we all win except for shaya and mic.
oh and vyse too lol


also to answer your question pete, because one is only midly ****, whereas the other one is so ****, its a **** that did a **** with **** on it.

 

[tedeth]

How is PS2 more neutral than Lylat.

This is beyond me.

EDIT: lol yeah Luke they go into th eback room because nobody wants to see them out the front.

 

[Hater]

As much as i love norfair (oh baby how i love u) It can and will be abused at a national event by mk's/wario's

Brinstar is fine just ban it against mk and wario and all is gravy

Ps2 is a stupid stage rant rant rant it bad!

Pictochat is fine srsly don't be bad The fire does 1%/ the spikes don't kill till high %'s/Lol don't even try complain about the cart
The problem if any for pictochat is the drawings breaking up play for periods of time but if we got rid of it due to that we should get rid of delfino and ps1 as some transformations have the same affect

Green greens/hanenbow/ship should NEVER be played on in any tournament attempting to claim smash as a competitive fighter including doubles matches

If you want i can rant on about a page for each of these stages like i did in the perth thread when pete/hobo/mic put port town aero drive into our stage lists, However i hope you all have the ability to use logic so i don't have to ^^

 

[Silfa]

How is PS2 more neutral than Lylat.

This is beyond me.

EDIT: lol yeah Luke they go into th eback room because nobody wants to see them out the front.

It's probably got something to do with a stage striking system creating the most neutral matchup, etc. and lylat probably doesn't provide as much equality as PS2.

Something along those lines maybe, I'm not really sure.

 

[Zero]

I agree with swapping Stadium 2 and Stadium 1 as Starter and CP.

I disagree with banning Brinstar and legalising Norfair and Rainbow Cruise.

The doubles-exclusive list looks good.

The new suicide rule is, to be frank, silly. It makes a totally unjustified nerf to characters with these options available. If players of those characters can manage to take their opponent's last stock with these methods, they should take the game. The opponent lost within the rules of the game, so why create this exception that alleviates that?

 

[Vlade]

I'm not going to this so take my opinions with a grain of salt (though I don't want to see my perth boys getting screwed over by lame stages).

PS2 is a really lame stage and anyone who counterpicks it will be hated but otherwise I actually can't find anything WRONG with the stage to make it ban-worthy.

Rainbow Cruise just makes it too metaknight-favourable for my liking which is my main reason for it to be banned, otherwise I don't have many issues with the stage itself.

I just honestly can't see how norfair should be legal. Many characters are able to camp there so easily because of the layout of the stage.

In other words, I'm very happy with the stage list as it is and believe that Perth should implement this because I am not a fan of the liberal stage lists we've been using lately.

EDIT: PS2 isn't starter-worthy imo, it is actually quite a favourable counterpick for several matchups (a bit like FD), moreso than PS1

 

[tedeth]

Guys, PS2 is fine AS A COUNTERPICK.

It has things that change the actual physics of the game. That's my issue with it. Oop, we're in the air for like ages. I want to get to the ground, but I just can't."

Can Ganon even get past the conveyer belt bit?

Like yeah, Lylat moves slightly. Oh dear. Really it's not that bad.

 

[Zero]

I would like to see people's reasons as to why Stadium 2 is, not a lame stage, but more lame than Stadium 1 to justify being a Counterpick rather than a Starter.

As the flat stage isn't controversial, I'll just list my opinions on how the transformations affect the dynamics of play.

Stadium 2:

Ice - Ground movement is much riskier. Aerial characters favoured.
Wind - Floaty characters and characters with bad aerial mobility are weakened.
Electric - Offensive game rewarded (!!!) as the conveyor belts shifts the advantage of edgeguarding from the recoverer to the edgeguard. Characters with weak ledge games and characters who falter under close range pressure are weakened here.
Ground - Simple stage. Both sides can be defended equally well. As bad as the fire transformation on Stadium 1.

Stadium 1:

Water - Windmall makes approaching from right side impossible. Severely impedes gameplay.
Fire - Tree makes approaching disadvantageous. Impedes gameplay.
Grass - The good transformation.
Rock - Bad.

 

[Vlade]

It's simple - DON'T APPROACH

 

[Pete278]

You should never approach in a game of Brawl, its a well known fact.

 

[Zero]

So what you're saying, Vlade, is that a stage that enables approaching is worse than a stage that strongly impedes it?

btw you didn't answer anything at all

 

[tedeth]

lol Zero love how you're like "Rock transformation can be defended from either side so it's good" and like "Windmill transformation can be defended from one side so it's bad."

PS2 ****.

**** PS2.

 

[Vlade]

No, what I'm saying is that the fact you can't approach on certain transformations which last like 30 seconds is definitely NOT a reason to consider a stage with weird physics transformations that favour several characters over PS1 as a starter

 

[Zero]

I edited it, I know it seems a bit biased in the above post, but PS2 rock and PS1 fire are essentially the same. ie. bad.

@Vlade: you mean on Stadium 1 right? Because you can't approach on 3/4 of the transformations on that stage.

 

[Vlade]

And most of the match does not consist of the transformations

 

[Zero]

and so Stadium 2 is clearly more suitable as a starter, as it does not impede gameplay, but merely shifts the focus. Much like the tilting of Lylat, the lasers and Skill Tester on Halberd and the transformations on Delfino. Delfino, Lylat and Halberd are all Starters on the BBR list and are relegated to CP in our stagelists because we choose a conservative list with 3/5 starters. Not because we complain about their mechanics. Why apply different conditions to PS2?

 

[...Ellipsis...]

No Andrew you were been completely reasonable. It is no where near as hard to approach on the ground stage as it is the fire, since you have the slope. PS2 doesn't waste half the match doing nothing like PS1. Also the stage changes can easily be worked around pictochat is more of a ***** then PS2 stop crying it is a good stage.

 

[tedeth]

Stop crying about us cryijng Liam. It's a bad stage.

EDIT: Does anyone besides the "Shaya Squad" actually want PS2?

 

[Vlade]

It is not a BAD stage, but it is also certainly not a STARTER stage.

What I'm saying is that it favours too many matchups for it to be in a conservative starter stagelist, it's pretty much the reason why FD isn't starter. I agree that it doesn't impede gameplay but it is better to have wasted time than a stage giving lots of advantages, which is not what a starter stage is meant to do.

 

[...Ellipsis...]

Are you going to explain or just cry about me crying about you cryijng more.

 

[tedeth]

Ok. I'll explain.

PS2 is ****.

Explanation over.

 

[swordsaint]

Stop crying about us cryijng Liam. It's a bad stage.

EDIT: Does anyone besides the "Shaya Squad" actually want PS2?

Not really. It's fine as a CP but there's definitely a bit too much influence from the stage no matter how much I actually enjoy the stage.

 

[Zero]

It really isn't a bad stage. It's certainly much better than PS1, in our metagame where approaching is ideally limited as much as possible.

 

[C~Dog]

Stop crying about us cryijng Liam. It's a bad stage.

EDIT: Does anyone besides the "Shaya Squad" actually want PS2?

If I say yes, does that make me part of the Shaya Squad?

 

[...Ellipsis...]

Ok. I'll explain.

PS2 is ****.

Explanation over.

Well you've certainly convinced me, I apologise for being so foolish. From this concise argument I can see the truth that had previously eluded me.

 

[Zero]

It is not a BAD stage, but it is also certainly not a STARTER stage.

What I'm saying is that it favours too many matchups for it to be in a conservative starter stagelist, it's pretty much the reason why FD isn't starter. I agree that it doesn't impede gameplay but it is better to have wasted time than a stage giving lots of advantages, which is not what a starter stage is meant to do.

Could you please answer my question? Why is Stadium 1 so much better than Stadium 2 that it gets to be a Starter?

Also note the change of word from "Neutral" to "Starter". Every starter stage gives an advantage to a specific group of characters. The whole point of the striking system is to get to a stage where both people are ideally comfortable playing on.

To surf on the FD point, just as FD was/is considered to favour Diddy Kong/Falco/Ice Climbers, Battlefield and Smashville favour Marth/Metaknight/Wario/the other portion of SA tier. PS2 potentially gives other characters a much more even fighting chance, especially against Metaknight.

As for matchups, how can you say this with conviction, when I would be positive in saying that almost all the character boards have not discussed Stadium 2 with almost the same depth as any other stage?

 

[tedeth]

ESP against MK according to who Zero?

 

[...Ellipsis...]

Ted do a little research before posting please, it saves everyone alot of time and energy (except yourself of course since you need to look at things before spouting of random ****.)

 

[Hater]

ESP against MK according to who Zero?

During wind transformation mk has a disadvantage if
A mk is not on the ground
B your character is one of the few that can get around mk's dair
C Your character is on the groundd and has better aerial mobility
D has a good juggling move

then yes zero mk does suffer on ps2 for like 25 secs if conditions A,B,C and D are met ^^

If anything mk is buffed during the electric transformation also the fire/ice tranformations barely if at all hinder mk you could say it buffs him due to every1 else being hindered by those transformations

 

[Zero]

While I don't speak with any authority on this subject, the wind transformation seems to balances things a little bit, given MK's bad aerial mobility. The other transformations don't especially favour him either. While by no means is it a hard MK counter, it does remove a lot of advantages that he possess on Battlefield, Smashville and Lylat and thus allows many other characters to compete with MK on as even a level as possible in the First round of a set.

@Hater: please stop posting forever

 

[swordsaint]

While I don't speak with any authority on this subject, the wind transformation seems to balances things a little bit, given MK's bad aerial mobility. The other transformations don't especially favour him either. While by no means is it a hard MK counter, it does remove a lot of advantages that he possess on Battlefield, Smashville and Lylat and thus allows many other characters to compete with MK on as even a level as possible in the First round of a set.

so what if mk surprisingly decides to stay on the ground =O you'll suffer the same spacing problems in the air, and mk's ground speed and on shield options (which are normally punished by jumping out of shield for some characters) can get a buff

(thanks to ted for pointing out this small fact <3)

 

[tedeth]

Liam. Alot of the "research" on this site is dumb.

Like ****, EA's a smash researcher. Case and point.

I can think of many reasons why MK would be super gay on every transformation.

 

[Zero]

@Scoot: Play ground footsies. Dashdance a bit. Ground poke if you can. TT have lots of viable things on the ground.

 

[...Ellipsis...]

Pretty sure I would rather play as MK on PS1, Battlefield, Lylat, Yoshis and Smashville.

 

[tibs7]

Shaya has definitely gone to work on most of you Nsw people.

Liam about before you were talking
about fire on ps1 being alot worse than ground on ps2?
This is stupid wrong.
That slope and the shelter is kinda stupid. Try getting to me safely, I can almost guarantee you will cop a grab or some other gay shiz

also as Ted said before, ps2 messes
with the physics of the game. which IMO is kinda stupid. Marth probly has grab release tipper on some
chars on the ice transformation. On the air one, you die easier from moves that kill vertically.
Conveyor belt is dangerous for everyone bar mk.

'nuff said.
Should not be neutral.

 

[Zero]

Conveyor belt is dangerous for everyone bar mk.

wut

10whys

 

[Hater]

During wind transformation mk has a disadvantage if
A mk is not on the ground
B your character is one of the few that can get around mk's dair
C Your character is on the ground and has better aerial mobility
D has a good juggling move

then yes zero mk does suffer on ps2 for like 25 secs if conditions A,B,C and D are met ^^

If anything mk is buffed during the electric transformation also the fire/ice tranformations barely if at all hinder mk you could say it buffs him due to every1 else being hindered by those transformations

Just incase you missed the points

I'm gonna ignore the last part for your own sake. On the ice transformation ice does not affect aerial approachs *cough*mk*cough* it also increases the surprise factor of his dash grab and sliding d smash (hope i don't need to explain how that is useful)

Fire Transformation due to the mound in the middle intelligent use of nado makes it easier to trap people with nado aswell as escape to safety on the other side of the mound. Also the mound prevents easy escape from a mk onslaught.

The benefit of the electric transformation is quite obvious i'm sure you'll let me know if you need to know how mk is good on it

 

[tedeth]

OK Zero

Say you're playign against an MK on the conveyor belt bit.

He's on the edge. What do you do?

Pressure him? No. Because you'll be taken offstage with an mk above you. have fun there.

 

[tibs7]

Coz he can get to centre the easiest and probly the safest? Nado to centre. Or just jump around doing what he does best. Mk by no means is in danger in this transformation.

Edit: + what Ted said