Brawl+ Official Codeset Gold Discussion

[kirox777]

Sonic's jab has a terrible design. Having a jab combo that doesn't "combo" even without DI cause the second and first jabs are in the wrong order... so dumb. Switching the first and second jabs would fix that but decrease the initial jab range. This isn't quite as bad as his up-smash glitch, but its sloppy as h***.

Convince me... in the Sonic thread plz. Gogogo!

yay!!! thank u, at least this is what i wanted. idk who brought it up to get your attention but i mentioned it first >_> would he have a good jab like lucario where it can be canceled to other moves or will it be like mario?

 

[matt4300]

yay!!! thank u, at least this is what i wanted. idk who brought it up to get your attention but i mentioned it first >_> would he have a good jab like lucario where it can be canceled to other moves or will it be like mario?

Marios jab is almost as ballz as sonic man... You don't want that.

 

[Veril]

What part of "in the sonic thread" was so hard to understand?

 

[ChronicleX]

What part of "in the sonic thread" was so hard to understand?

That topic is for discussing Sonic or debating stuff around him and this is neither. We know the 123 combo is ****, you know its **** and you have told us its ****. Why do you want us to convince you that something is **** when you are already convinced its ****?

 

[BEES]

The set will be officially gold once we put more polish and pretty it up (add a few stage changes, textures, etc). As for gameplay, this is it. That will not be changing anymore unless we find a huge glitch or issue that must be fixed.

I would not stop here. I don't think it should stop here. The gameplay is good, don't get me wrong. It could be great though...

 

[Bandit]

I would not stop here. I don't think it should stop here. The gameplay is good, don't get me wrong. It could be great though...

You have not seen any of Veril's posts on the topic, have you? All the competitive players want a stable set and are happy with 6.0. If it doesn't become stable soon, Brawl+ will lose its market. This is why balance changes have been stopped without major cause.

 

[darksamus77]

I don't know if anyone else has brought attention to this, but some characters have unbeatable short-hop->forward A combos. Marth, MK, and Link were a few I really noticed

 

[JCaesar]

^ wut?

 

[Alphatron]

I think he means that some characters get guarenteed combos upon hitting you with their SHFF fair attacks.

 

[Veril]

^ wut?

"facedesk"

SH and especially SHFFl aerials lead to combos in a B+. Its their teleology.

 

[proteininja]

"facedesk"

SH and especially SHFFl aerials lead to combos in a B+. Its their teleology.

Teleology
–noun Philosophy.
1. the doctrine that final causes exist.
2. the study of the evidences of design or purpose in nature.
3. such design or purpose.
4. the belief that purpose and design are a part of or are apparent in nature.
5. (in vitalist philosophy) the doctrine that phenomena are guided not only by mechanical forces but that they also move toward certain goals of self-realization.

We all just became more intelligent.

When is that Bowser stream going to happen?

 

[Bandit]

Teleology
–noun Philosophy.
1. the doctrine that final causes exist.
2. the study of the evidences of design or purpose in nature.
3. such design or purpose.
4. the belief that purpose and design are a part of or are apparent in nature.
5. (in vitalist philosophy) the doctrine that phenomena are guided not only by mechanical forces but that they also move toward certain goals of self-realization.

We all just became more intelligent.

When is that Bowser stream going to happen?

Without this post, 95% of the smash community did not understand Veril's post.

Thankfully, I was in the 5%

Protein, we'll be streaming tomorrow evening. Check back here for a link if JCaesar posts it here again (I'm sure he will).

 

[Alphatron]

Streams are lame. Real men post poor quality vids on youtube.

 

[Cyan_Blau]

Rules unexceptable .... ! why?

First I have to say that I don't wanna nerve you or hurt you with any criticism!!!

And I please for forgiving that I abused early versions of Brawl+ for my own codesets!

PLEASE READ THIS FIRST​

Any reply that falls into one of the four following categories is spam and will be punished appropriately:

* "I can't get it to load.../How do I set it up?"
* "I don't like Brawl+ because..."
* "Why is X code in Brawl+?"
* "Where is my PAL version?" There's a PAL thread stickied for a reason...
* Character Talk of any kind: Use the Workshop Character Threads for individual discussion
* "Where is the changelist?
" It's being made, stop asking for it.

You can talk about all of the above in the Brawl+ chat or in their respective topics.

I've just some questions and hope that I wont be punished or deleted! - And for that reason I point to this kinds of rules for this topic, because I WILL go around these rules. (I wont break them advised, but) I will criticize them in any direct way!


"Read if you (as publisher, admin or moderator) wanna know my critics."

The first of my quoted forbidden points:

I really loved the researches of the many coders and the value lists and tier lists in past.

I know I abused it in many many points and also in one of my youtube videos, but I just tried to understand the functionality of many codes in a very short time, because I'm always busy.

I loved B+ codes and the B+ tweaker more than anyone who abused the codes only, because he/she don't wanna think about the values of the long and complex codes.

I know how much work it is to find the right value for any aspect in the game, because I also work with the codes.

And I only try to find out how I can change any value that I can have the right physics for my codeset. So why you all hide them?!


The second of my quoted forbidden points:

I really wanna say why I don't like, maybe not really Brawl+, but the method how you publish it in your own workshop! - As I said some lists of the used codes and maybe some list of the used values wont be the end of Brawl+, will they?

Another point is that you totally forbid any kind of critics in that way a priori!!!

I ask me: "Is that fair for the costumers?", and: "Who has to decide how the codeset and values should be?" - "The majority?"

The third of my quoted forbidden points:

Why, please answer!, why is a critic about any code or maybe just the question, why the code is in there and what this code is supposed to do, totally forbidden? - That should be cared under the category nobility!
And has nothing to do with democracy or scientific work...

The fourth of my quoted forbidden points:

I understand why so much PAL users ask for the actual version of Brawl+!

It's because PAL users are mostly disadvantaged in the category codes!

I don't know if they have their own coders anywhere, but they don't seemed to be more 'too lazy' than US users, they maybe didn't understand the codes or don't have the skills to port them.

But you all opened the forum in any tolerance and don't attend that there can't be 100% support for PAL users because it's difficult to handle it all ...

The fifth of my quoted forbidden points:

The character discussion may have it's own topics, but if there are drastic changes of any moveset of a character (jump/speed/etc values or moves) then people might should be allowed to ask directly in the publish thread, why this changes have been done!

The sixth of my quoted forbidden points:

I hope, I really hope, you are trying to publish a changelist, because it's one of the only one information we can get of the new version!

And I agree that it's a shame that so much people get rid of this rule and push these people who really work for it to publish it!

But they're right when they say the whole project became to a great nationalistic secret from the public!


I don't understand this... !!!

... And I think it only would be fear, if anyone of you delete or punish me just because of this critics ...


EDIT#: Another terrible point for my argumentation: The spoiler function seems to be be voided! ??! :/
EDIT2#: Also for my argumentation: Refer to proteininja's explanation to the post about the philosophy...




//AX

 

[Shadic]

I don't know if anyone else has brought attention to this, but some characters have unbeatable short-hop->forward A combos. Marth, MK, and Link were a few I really noticed

.....lolwut.

No, seriously. Do you think so because he has a sword, or what?

 

[VietGeek]

link has a unbeatable jab obv

btw these forward a combos are beatable

1. select jin
2. GO GO GO
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uZWArSOmCc
4. proceed to then 214C
5. once successful 214C again
6. if failed 623 something
7. Repeat
8. camp with jC's
9. play Bowser
10. press shield
11. press A in conjunction
12.
13. the prince is dead. there is only rarth

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

VietGeek obv needs to play TvC more.

Anyway, lol @ link.

 

[Andarel]

I don't understand your first point.

The majority gets a lot of input, but the more majority input there is (especially when a lot of people don't agree), the faster the project stalls, flip-flops, and gets little to no work done. The things that the majority thinks needs work now (Marth physics) are the current focus, but to be fair most people are fine with the latest release.

As of lists of published information, it's there if you ask for it. The fact is, there's a lot of stuff and that is unrelated to Brawl+ (after all, remember that if physics are different over 2 different copies of Brawl+, one or more of those has to be banned from tournaments. If characters play differently over different copies of the game, Brawl+ is pointless. So ask for it, because we're not going to give you it otherwise since there's no reason to.

If you ask about why a code is in there, you generally will get an answer. At least in my experience.

The PAL version of the game is surprisingly different from the US version. There are a few PAL coders, but they've all been busy, and the US coders don't have PAL copies of the game. If you can find PAL coders, please send 'em over to the WBR and they'll be overjoyed to have a PAL port worked on.

Drastic changes should be asked in the character discussion thread. You get answers, too.

The changelist is being worked on, but it's no small task. Which is unfortunate, but people do have lives and school takes precedence over Brawl+ work.

Also, none of those are spoilers. It just makes it hard to read - stick to normal text.

 

[Cyan_Blau]

thx ^^"

I don't understand your first point.

The majority gets a lot of input, but the more majority input there is (especially when a lot of people don't agree), the faster the project stalls, flip-flops, and gets little to no work done. The things that the majority thinks needs work now (Marth physics) are the current focus, but to be fair most people are fine with the latest release.

As of lists of published information, it's there if you ask for it. The fact is, there's a lot of stuff and that is unrelated to Brawl+ (after all, remember that if physics are different over 2 different copies of Brawl+, one or more of those has to be banned from tournaments. If characters play differently over different copies of the game, Brawl+ is pointless. So ask for it, because we're not going to give you it otherwise since there's no reason to.

If you ask about why a code is in there, you generally will get an answer. At least in my experience.

The PAL version of the game is surprisingly different from the US version. There are a few PAL coders, but they've all been busy, and the US coders don't have PAL copies of the game. If you can find PAL coders, please send 'em over to the WBR and they'll be overjoyed to have a PAL port worked on.

Drastic changes should be asked in the character discussion thread. You get answers, too.

The changelist is being worked on, but it's no small task. Which is unfortunate, but people do have lives and school takes precedence over Brawl+ work.

Also, none of those are spoilers. It just makes it hard to read - stick to normal text.

Yeah, I really thank you much for your good user support. I know that you don't agree - as many as you don't have to think about something, you agree, because that's the easy way and that's the foul of the majority and also because I don't really meant it serious with the therm "the majority?"!

I also found much of the codes here, but if I said where the topic will get stricter security therm, so I WONT!

Also, I'm one the people who would support the GCT-Editor because of this!


But I also only can say that normal tournaments mostly use Brawl+ (or - or any of this mods) so people who use scripted, chrecked or any other kind of codeset will become automatically disconnected! - Other "special" tournament weren't, aren't and wont be forbidden in any case... !



//AX

 

[proteininja]

link Has A Unbeatable Jab Obv

Btw These Forward A Combos Are Beatable

1. Select Jin
2. Go Go Go
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uzwarsomcc
4. Proceed To Then 214c
5. Once Successful 214c Again
6. If Failed 623 Something
7. Repeat
8. Camp With Jc's
9. Play Bowser
10. Press Shield
11. Press A In Conjunction
12.
13. The Prince Is Dead. There Is Only Rarth

Wtf Does This All Mean!!!!?!?!?!

 

[leafgreen386]

Wtf Does This All Mean!!!!?!?!?!

You are not worthy.

 

[Thunderhorse+]

link has a unbeatable jab obv

btw these forward a combos are beatable

1. select jin
2. GO GO GO
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uZWArSOmCc
4. proceed to then 214C
5. once successful 214C again
6. if failed 623 something
7. Repeat
8. camp with jC's
9. play Bowser
10. press shield
11. press A in conjunction
12.
13. the prince is dead. there is only rarth

Fixed it for you.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52319

 

[Jiiprah]

The txt download on the Plus site says its vs5.0?

http://www.brawlplus.net/downloads/RSBE01.txt

 

[Plum]

Mind = Blown.

 

[Anteo]

Fixed it for you.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52319

I'm sorry.. I know I'm breaking the rules but.. OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Isatis]

It's better to keep this on-topic, and the rest of this stuff in the social thread.

 

[BEES]

You have not seen any of Veril's posts on the topic, have you? All the competitive players want a stable set and are happy with 6.0. If it doesn't become stable soon, Brawl+ will lose its market. This is why balance changes have been stopped without major cause.

Not all are happy with 6.0. Definitely not all. That's very disingenuous to claim.

I suspect the hackers that drive this project are occupied with project M at the moment. Once they get that out of their system, we'll see if Brawl+ stays in this configuration. We will definitely see.

 

[Deleted member]

Not all are happy with 6.0. Definitely not all. That's very disingenuous to claim.

I suspect the hackers that drive this project are occupied with project M at the moment. Once they get that out of their system, we'll see if Brawl+ stays in this configuration. We will definitely see.

Yeah, what I'm seeing around in my melee community is many misconceptions for B+ along with disappointment for the lack of tech skill in B+. When Project M is in beta, it looks like there's gonna be a split in the B+ because people who want a faster vBrawl may prefer a Melee 2.0 ... =/

 

[CountKaiser]

Who isn't happy with 6.0?

I will admit, while it isn't perfect, changes should be handled with care, as I too am getting change fatigue, and am happy that there is a stable set currently. Changing it will more than likely have severe repercussions on the reputation of this project.

Though what mainly worries me is Project M.

I understand that it is a simple side project done for fun. I don't mind that, in fact I like it, as does my friend who's a melee nut (and a fighting game fanatic in general), what concerns me is what impact Project M will have on Brawl+ being a legitimate tourney hack.

drpepper stated that P:M and B+ will split the community due to preferences. If this does occur, people will than push for P:M to be the tourney standard. Where will that leave the people supporting B+? More likely than not, they will push B+ to be tourney standard as well.

B+ has a leg up on P:M, since it's been out longer and has garnered a larger audience, and has in fact already had tourneys dedicated to it. However, the prospect of a melee 2.0 proper will definitely draw a lot of attention from melee players, and thus gives B+ a smaller audience to appeal to.

So the question is if when P:M is released, and it gathers a massive following that threatens the viability of B+, what are we to do about B+?

 

[Seikishidan Soru]

There is no such thing as B+ vs P:M. No one's work is going to waste anyway, and those who want to play either of them (or both), will be able to do so. Just like people play vBrawl or Melee.

 

[Deleted member]

There is no such thing as B+ vs P:M. No one's work is going to waste anyway, and those who want to play either of them (or both), will be able to do so. Just like people play vBrawl or Melee.

There was no such thing as vBrawl vs Melee before vBrawl came out and look at the differences in vBrawl/Melee communities now. Don't be so quick to dismiss something that may be a real possibility.

Many love B+, but many would love the addition of extra technical skill and more changes to create an even deeper game (Myself included). This may or may not be an issue and time will tell.



@CountK
There's different game styles in Smash. All aspire to be balanced, deep, and viable. There is nothing wrong with each game's style- just balance. inb4 flame war.

We have Brawl on one side where camping, spacing, and prediction are a part of the style. Lack of balance. Balanced Brawl continues this game play style with its minimal changes to balance chars.

Melee resides in the middle with very technical gameplay, varied combos, and combo prediction. Also imbalanced, but not as imba as vBrawl. Project Melee is emulating this style.

SSB64 on the opposite pole with inescapable 0-death combos, huge hitstun/shieldstun, and little DI. Arguably the most balanced, but still imbalanced.

The question is where does B+ fall into this scale and how do the project managers get fans and players supporting/playing their projects?

Well, BBrawl and P:M have identified themselves with the 2 most popular games. And B+ falls between Melee and vBrawl and P:M and BBrawl respectively. There has to be a root of the issue there if not anywhere.

 

[The Cape]

Many love B+, but many would love the addition of extra technical skill and more changes to create an even deeper game (Myself included). This may or may not be an issue and time will tell.

What do you necessarily mean as "more tech skill"? L canceling is a reflex. After you learn it, you rarely miss it and it does nothing but separate new players from current players for something that you would want to do every time as is. Wavedashing is an extra thing that you can do that is completely not necessary (look at Aniki). Brawl (and Brawl+) has brought about crawl dashing, RARing and a whole slew of other new techniques.

The people who want tech skill added to the game very well may have an equivilent amount of people who do not want arbitrary tech skill added to the game. I played Melee competitively for 4 years and while I did like how technical the game was, why do we really NEED to copy that into this one? Brawl+ is easier to pick up and has a good deal of depth in matchups and advanced techniques as is.

Project Melee seems so pointless to me. Its Melee on a worse engine with more characters, if I wanted to play Melee, I would get out my Gamecube disc and play that.

 

[Seikishidan Soru]

I still don't see how people moving from one game to another or sticking with their game of choice can be an issue at all. If people are satisfied with what they're playing then that's what matters. Better than playing a game out of spite for lack of an alternative.

 

[Deleted member]

What do you necessarily mean as "more tech skill"? L canceling is a reflex. After you learn it, you rarely miss it and it does nothing but separate new players from current players for something that you would want to do every time as is. Wavedashing is an extra thing that you can do that is completely not necessary (look at Aniki). Brawl (and Brawl+) has brought about crawl dashing, RARing and a whole slew of other new techniques.

Some ppl like tech skill, some don't. Its a playstyle preference. That doesn't mean that one game is necessarily better than another or that B+ needs tech skill. I simply like the technicality of Melee, and other people do too. Some don't care for it and that's fine.

The issue here was how can the B+ community grow bigger when it has to compete with other Smash games, and it probably doesn't belong in this thread so I'm done.

 

[goodoldganon]

Project M and Brawl+ are two seperate games trying to attract different demographics. Either way, it's a silly argument and should not be in this topic OR the Project:M topic. Discuss is in the social. Please read the OP and post accordingly. (Yes this post is out of context but hopefully BS will forgive me)

 

[Bandit]

Not all are happy with 6.0. Definitely not all. That's very disingenuous to claim.

I suspect the hackers that drive this project are occupied with project M at the moment. Once they get that out of their system, we'll see if Brawl+ stays in this configuration. We will definitely see.

Your suspicions are wrong, and you weren't at Pound 4 talking to all the top players that were there.

There's no guarantee Project M will have 30+ viable characters like Brawl+. Project M is being created by a different group of people than who are working on Brawl+. It is a completely different project and the two groups are no longer together since Veril & Cape are working Brawl+ and Shanus & others are running Project M.

You make a lot of statements purely meant to stir trouble.

@DrPepper - I see no point in catering to people who won't give B+ the time of day. Besides, Melee has like 4 or 5 viable characters and if you like playing dittos all day, then feel free. vBrawl is pretty much the same only it's 1 character. Play whatever game you want; we'll keep playing the game that allows for a wide array of game play.

My 2 Cents/

(only responded since I was directly spoken to)

 

[Shadic]

Besides, Melee has like 4 or 5 viable characters

Oh man. I got some much complaining last time I said that. I think I even said like, six.

s and if you like playing dittos all day, then feel free..

I wish somebody would Link ditto me.

 

[BG3]

@Bandit: There are a lot more viable characters in Melee than just 4 or 5.

 

[Veril]

I suspect the hackers that drive this project are occupied with project M at the moment.

Looking past the fact that this statement is pure (and false) conjecture...

There are enough coders to handle the demands of the final tweaks given the insane amount of talent within the wbr and the B+ community in general. This is especially true given that the number of character specific changes will be very very low compared to what everyone has gotten used to... which shouldn't come as any surprise to those who have actually spoken with me.


As to "tech skill" in B+, we aren't trying to be melee, but the technical aspects that have been added in go a long way in adding depth. Look at something as simple as being able to dashcancel with crouch (out of a run) or shield (initial dash), the greater dash dance window, SHFFled aerial's that actually give you an advantage on shield, combos, etc.


Project: M (its actual name isn't Melee 2.0) is separate and distinct from B+. We have a completely different goal, different leadership and methodology.

EDIT: Don't even think about starting a debate on Melee's balance. This is not the place for that.

There is no such thing as B+ vs P:M. No one's work is going to waste anyway, and those who want to play either of them (or both), will be able to do so. Just like people play vBrawl or Melee.

I have no doubt that P:M and B+ will be able to coexist peacefully, unlike vBrawl and Melee.

I wish somebody would Link ditto me.

I'll Link ditto you if/when we meet.

 

[Alphatron]

The only thing I really see as far as tech skill is concerned are the magnetic ledges and combos being too easy(which isn't true at all anymore).

Project M is being worked on by guys who helped make brawl+. The Project M characters are mostly brawl+ chars. P:M codes have actually been added to the GSH2 set.