Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[SymphonicSage12]

Its range was its main problem. It was really disjointed.


If only I could find that pic....


and metaxzero, guess. I dare you. Guess.

 

[Thunderhorse+]

First off. This is hardly a buff.

The wheel of fate is turning...

Rebel 1

ACTION!

Fixing [move X] is a buff, plain and simple. Anytime you make a move work better than it did before, it's a buff. It doesn't matter what it was "intended" to do. All that matters is how it works now compared to how it would work after the fix, and it would obviously work better, thus [character X] would be a better character.

But since [character X] is already arguably top 10, any buff (including fixing a broken move) should go hand in hand with a nerf. That's the bottom line.

ASTRAL FINISH KO!

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

Thunderhorse+ = More ******** than vThunderhorse.

JCaesar+ = More nubby than vJCaesar.

Seeing a pattern here? Yeah. Thought so.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Oh snaps JCaesar just owned. >.> (well, technically thunderhorse)


...and, TGYMK....what? How was JCaesar's post nubbish in any way?

 

[Dark Sonic]

The wheel of fate is turning...

Rebel 1

ACTION!

Fixing move[X] is a buff, plain and simple. Anytime you make a move work better than it did before, it's a buff. It doesn't matter what it was "intended" to do. All that matters is how it works now compared to how it would work after the fix, and it would obviously work better, thus Falco would be a better character.

But since Character X is already arguably top 10, any buff (including fixing a broken move) should go hand in hand with a nerf. That's the bottom line.

ASTRAL FINISH KO!

Heaven or Hell

Dual 2

LET'S ROCK

Kirby's recieving a B-air nerf next set, so making Copy function like it should would be a trade-off.

DESTROYED!

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

Oh snaps JCaesar just owned. >.> (well, technically thunderhorse)


...and, TGYMK....what? How was JCaesar's post nubbish in any way?

I was kiddin. :3

Still nubz. :3

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Oh, wow. MetaXzero and JCaesar are both owning. Well, personally I Think that the "buffing in tandom needs a nerf" doesn't happen to also be "nerfing a move in tandem needs a buff"

Kirby could only get the bair nerf and no swallow buff and he'd still be a **** character.

He honestly doesn't need it (I should know about not needing things, I'm a peach main).


EDIT: ****, TGYMK, I get pwned enough already, stop pwning me!!

 

[Plum]

If one does not want to get roflpwned whilest on the internet, the only solution is to not speak while on the internet :V

The internet is made for pwning. lrn2intrnt

HYPE+

 

[timothyung]

Back to Kirby bair discussion?
Should we nerf the range, or add some end lag+landing lag?
Personally I would prefer adding lag. Nerfing the range won't stop Kirby from spamming it, but adding lag will require smarter usage. Ganon's fair has similar range and power, but it's lag keeps it from being able to be spammed. (And also his mobility, the lag is the main difference though)

 

[IC3R]

What the **** is going on here?!
...

...oh.


Fix Swallow plz.

Kirby is being nerfed now, and he wants his signature ability to be unpunishable as trade-off. :V
inb4falconpawnch

 

[jalued]

is it possible to give kirby the ability to copy any B move? so say u want falcons side B or something... or is that far far far too much programming?

 

[timothyung]

Or getting the sword ability if he copies Link?

It should be hard to program that. You need the animation, effects, scripts, etc
The easiest thing would be editing the hat scripts.

 

[matt4300]

Or getting the sword ability if he copies Link?

It should be hard to program that. You need the animation, effects, scripts, etc
The easiest thing would be editing the hat scripts.

Pretty sure they edited the hats for the next official. Mostly fixing fire breaths... and adding hitlag to powermoves.

 

[proteininja]

So, I noticed the APEX matches were three stocks. Is the backroom going to change the official tourney rules to 3 stock instead of 4(and consequently the default settings)?

 

[GameSystem]

APEX was three stocks because they were low on time. Default is still 4.

 

[shanus]

I'm wondering how many kirbies here realize how huge a nerf a change to his bair range is...it's not just that it has been changed for the worse, but it'll require completely relearning the move, or even the character.Instead of a range change, I personally would accept having a huge amount of endlag tacked on, getting completely rid of its iasa, and bringing it back to 100% landing lag...because even then, i would stil be able to space it to be unshieldgrabbable, and there would be ways to get around the lag increase (ex more conservative, smarter usage rather than spamming). Nerfing the range, on the other hand, will force kirby players to relearn spacing in the air in general (i for one always do my best to hover around bair range), and it doesnt even address his ability to chain two or 3 in a row into an offstage hit.

It's changing so much that shouldnt be changed, yet still managing to miss the point. All it needs is more endlag. (Not to mention the fact that it isnt an OP move in itself, its just a staple move in his arsenal, but thats another debate altogether)

Have you even tried the change? Its not nearly as OMGWORLDISENDING as you think. This just in, you can still space an epic bair.

 

[Glick]

Whattttttt

Kirby hat buff?
That would be mad awesome.

Needs moar changes to moves that are useless.
like pk flash... or DDD swallow.

Give kirby jiggz rest LOL

 

[Lil'E]

Kirby's voice alone makes up for PK Flash.

 

[Mattnumbers]

No, you guys know that kirby is getting bair nerfed for a REASON right? It's because they felt kirby was too good, so offering any kind of tradeoff for an INTENDED nerf is stupid. Even if it's a relatively bad tradeoff, it still kind of removes the purpose of trying to make him worse in the first place, because they already have him at the level they want, and now he'll be slightly above the level they want.

Just find something to get rid of in exchange for a safe swallow.


I would like to use PK Freeze you know, but there is almost NEVER a situation where it would be beneficial for me to use it. That's even WORSE than having a move that requires you to get hit but is worth it sometimes depending on the character. And Lucas isn't a character that is considered top 5 material either!

 

[timothyung]

You should be safe if you use a move correctly.
And swallow (really when you swallow), on the other hand, cannot be safe, and never kills. lolwat.
Why shouldn't you fix it? It's a buff, yes, but it is only buffing a move which will always cause you to be punished, to a move which the opponent cannot hit you if you connect it. What's the problem?

At least, when you land PK freeze, you won't get punished. Swallow is worse than that.

 

[Stevo]

Lol, lots of combos that work which shouldn't are a result of two things: Your opponents suck or you performed (?) pro DI. For those who don't know what that is, pro DI is tricking the opponent to DI the way you want them to DI. Seeing how Pro DI makes combos that normally don't work work in a way that makes sense, I'm going to assume (due to your logic that its the AD's fault) the reason why you can pull these combos off that shouldn't work is because your opponents are bad players.

WTF man I was arguing FOR melee AD..... and when i said bad DI, i meant it in the sense of WRONG DI, whether you trick someone into doing it or not.

so hostile and I agree with you lol.

and I've gone to many huge melee tournaments in the past, I've played with the very best players in the world (not recently, but like Ken, Forward, KDJ, etc etc)

Just because something won't show in training mode as a "combo", doesnt mean it wont work on players because of reaction time, DI, and spacing.

Also, **** you and your unnecessary hostility

 

[Xeial]

On the subject of Kirby hats... has anyone else noticed that when Kirby copies MK that he gains the vBrawl Tornado? Perhaps this was intentional, it certainly gives Kirby a great ability to deal with MK on his own terms. I'd even go as far as to say that Kirby has the advantageous match-up with the vBrawl Tornado.

 

[Dan_X]

Yeah, someone mentioned this a few pages back, but I didn't see an answer so i figured I'd ask.

Will the Official Release sport any stage changes?

EDIT:

On the subject of Kirby hats... has anyone else noticed that when Kirby copies MK that he gains the vBrawl Tornado? Perhaps this was intentional, it certainly gives Kirby a great ability to deal with MK on his own terms. I'd even go as far as to say that Kirby has the advantageous match-up with the vBrawl Tornado.

Yes, this is known. I don't think it was intentional. As far as I know Kirby's vBrawl tornado wasn't nearly as good as MK's vBrawl tornado anyway.

 

[Xeial]

Of course the hitbox is smaller, but overall priority, the ability to rise in the air, and the end-lag/start-up are identical to vBrawl.

 

[timothyung]

What makes the tornado stop rising is MK's gravity, so unless we change Kirby's gravity, it will still rise... or if we do something in PSA. His tornado is smaller, though.
And for the startup/endlag... I think they simply can't change that at that time. Now with the power of PSA, we might be able to add the lag to Kirby's nado also

 

[Dan_X]

Either way, the only matchup that Kirby can make use of the Nado is against MK... or perhaps in Doubles. I don't think it's so good that it wrecks MK in that matchup... We all know MK is pretty beast as is. Really, the only point that nerfing Kirby's nado would serve is nerfing Kirby vs MK.

 

[Mattnumbers]

Kirby spoiler

Spoiler

In the new set they went over Kirby's copy abilities, and I'm fairly sure they changed the tornado one to be the same as MKs Brawl+ one.

 

[GHNeko]

Kirby spoiler

Spoiler

In the new set they went over Kirby's copy abilities, and I'm fairly sure they changed the tornado one to be the same as MKs Brawl+ one.

Think again.

 

[Mattnumbers]

Well I know that they at least changed some of them :/

 

[Deleted member]

Finally Kirby is getting nerfed? Excellent. It was getting hard to justify this game when such a glaring flaw was so prevalent.

 

[thesage]

M2K won't like the Kirby nerf lol.

 

[GHNeko]

He can just work around it. V:

 

[Dan_X]

M2K won't like the Kirby nerf lol.

Yeah, I'm sure he can deal with it. At SNES, M2K didn't event touch MK in Brawl+ as he didn't want it to effect his vBrawl game.

 

[Mattnumbers]

Does M2K like B+? Last I heard he didn't, or has that changed?

 

[GHNeko]

I dont think he likes it, but his entrance in SNES makes me wonder. lol.

 

[Shell]

M2K is M2K -- he raged about how much Brawl sucked for the longest time and look at him now.

/shrug

 

[cubaisdeath]

well, brawl DOES suck, but if you're good at it, and it gets you money, why not play it?

 

[GHNeko]

It's a money vs moral thing really. <_<

I'm sure if Melee netted the same amount of cash as Brawl, Brawl would be less popular.

 

[cubaisdeath]

It's a money vs moral thing really. <_<

I'm sure if Melee netted the same amount of cash as Brawl, Brawl would be less popular.

lmao, thats EXACTLY how it is in my region, and I'm glad. I sorta wish there was more of a B+ scene, but everyone that wasn't me, Lucien, or hostility sucked pretty bad, or just talked a whole mess of **** and then decided not to enter the b+ tournament lol.


anyways, I heard they are fixing kirby's broken tornado. that sucks, it made him really fun to play lol

 

[GHNeko]

Where are people getting this Kirby Nado thing from. <_<