Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[Mattnumbers]

I think it's a cat face

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

I think it's a cat face

It's the "Please pay attention to me" or "...wut =D" face.

Like, you don't care, you just keep that face.

It's what Diddy would do. :3

:3

 

[SymphonicSage12]

It's an "awwww" happy face. /kitten face. :3.

 

[kupo15]

I think it's a cat face

It's the "Please pay attention to me" or "...wut =D" face.

Like, you don't care, you just keep that face.

It's what Diddy would do. :3

:3

It's an "awwww" happy face. /kitten face. :3.

Then what does that imply in the context of what "Guy" wrote? I'm confused 3:

 

[SymphonicSage12]

awwwwwwwwww, kupo, it's not possible awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

 

[zxeon]

We can't make Bowser smaller. That would be taking the easy way out.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

And it wouldn't make logical sense either.

 

[Mattnumbers]

And it wouldn't make logical sense either.

Then again neither does a mid-air jump

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Well that's a different story.

 

[kupo15]

We can't make Bowser smaller. That would be taking the easy way out.

I didn't know that solving problems through changes to the core of the problem was "taking the easy the out." It makes much more sense to identify the core problem, ignore it, make a sh*t load of other changes that don't identify with the problem instead, then b*tch some more about the problem later on only to add more buffs that still don't identify with the problem

Thanks for your words of wisdom, zxeon. I'll keep that in mind 3:

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

I didn't know that solving problems through changes to the core of the problem was "taking the easy the out." It makes much more sense to identify the core problem, ignore it, make a sh*t load of other changes that don't identify with the problem instead, then b*tch some more about the problem later on only to add more buffs that still don't identify with the problem

Thanks for your words of wisdom, zxeon. I'll keep that in mind 3:

Of course we can make him smaller. But why? xD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-XUzD2NH_Y

Part two of the FHFFL/SHFFL. In action.

 

[kupo15]

Of course we can make him smaller. But why? xD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-XUzD2NH_Y

Part two of the FHFFL/SHFFL. In action.

To make him harder to hit because that is his biggest weakness. Really slow and really big is a bad combination but do what you want. I don't really care too much about character changes. Mechanics are much more important to me.

That FF is seriously waaaaay two fast

 

[zxeon]

I didn't know that solving problems through changes to the core of the problem was "taking the easy the out." It makes much more sense to identify the core problem, ignore it, make a sh*t load of other changes that don't identify with the problem instead, then b*tch some more about the problem later on only to add more buffs that still don't identify with the problem

Thanks for your words of wisdom, zxeon. I'll keep that in mind 3:

That's what I meant. F*uck all that s*hit. Who needs to solve problems when we can have more?

It's too bad that his size isn't his core problem since there have existed jumbo characters that didn't completely suck. It's possible to make him a good without using the shrink ray. Look at sentinel for instance.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

This game is totally different from MvC2. Just pointing that out.

As far as bowser goes, what about a "thick skin" buff to make him harder to combo? Like, he has super armor up to something like 3 or 4 damage?

 

[Mattnumbers]

Bowser isn't slow

EDIT:

FAIL!


The following is taken from this thread.

"~BOWSER IS NOT SLOW~

This is taken from the match up thread in regards to Bowser's speed:

*sigh* I'll touch on the rest of it later, but first, Bowser's attacks.

Sure, Bowser isn't as fast Shiek. Most of her attacks hit sooner. While Bowser has laggy moves (i.e.: FSmash) these moves are used for punishing or from a grab release when applicable. But here's the thing: BOWSER HAS A BETTER ATTACK RANGE. Now, what this means, is that while Shiek may hit quicker, Shiek ALSO has to be closer to be able to attack Bowser, thus giving Bowser more time to hit you. And even when you do hit Bowser, ah well. Bowser is the heaviest character in game and has a faster fall speed than most of the cast(1), so he's not going anywhere anytime soon.

Moving on to aerial speed. Even to the human eye, Bowser has an average fall speed if you don't want to be overally technical about it(2) and has an "A" class aerial movement speed(3).

Now for ground speed, which Bowser rates about average(4)(5).

Conclusion?

BOWSER IS NOT SLOW! =_=

(1)http://www.smashboards.com/showthrea...ighlight=speed
(2)http://www.smashboards.com/showthrea...ighlight=speed
(3)http://www.smashboards.com/showthrea...ighlight=speed
(4)http://www.smashboards.com/showthrea...ighlight=speed
(5)http://www.smashboards.com/showthrea...ighlight=speed

I'll repeat, Bowser is not slow. This is NOT a valid arguement for anyone playing against Bowser unless their name is Sonic, so feel free to laugh in their face whenever you hear it."


Why must I constantly have to repeat myself?! Did you people play vBrawl at all before you jumped ship? D:

 

[zxeon]

Thick skin makes him easier to combo at times because he takes less damage and thus less knockback

 

[Stevo]

I dont think Bowser should be smaller.... knida takes away from his Flavour. Just make a couple of his kill moves slightly stronger, so when you hit with them, its well worth it.

Or just leave him... I dont think he is really that bad at all.

and that SH laser seems really awkward and strange.... maybe its just cause you dont have the timing....

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Matt, we know he's not slow (hell, he's my vBrawl main). But at the same time, he's massive, and at the same time has trouble breaking combos against him. It makes him a huge target.

 

[Mattnumbers]

I know, I was responding to Kupo calling him slow twice.

 

[Rudra]

The FF speed from the lasers seem...extremely fast. It could just be Youtube making things look a bit faster I guess, but ****. @_@ I'd have to try it out to tell for sure.

Also...

 

[kupo15]

I know, I was responding to Kupo calling him slow twice.

Compared to the other heavies, he is slow.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

O.o

I'm missing something here... Ike, Ganon, probably DK? If he's slower than the other heavies, who's he faster than?

 

[Shadic]

.....Link?

 

[kupo15]

O.o

I'm missing something here... Ike, Ganon, probably DK? If he's slower than the other heavies, who's he faster than?

Ike has range and a bair thats quick and he is smaller

Ganon is thinner, uair, bair, jab are really quick and he has some nice range also

Dk has a fast bair, nice range

DDD has fast bair, dtilt, utilt, range

All these moves have good trajectories and minimal cool down lag, something bowser has a lot of.(the lag that is)

What did you see Bowser do mostly? Fortress canceling because it was his best move and fastest. The fortress really is weak in comparison. His side b IMO was much better in melee also. Wavedashing also gave him nice mobility and higher gravity helped with ground game. I hate watching Bowser matches because it seems like up b is the only move he has. He's better off Auto canceling all of his moves instead of SHFFLing from what I see.

But w/e, I don't care about Bowser or character changes so that is that

 

[bleyva]

on the topic of character sizes (i know this is kind of random), but does anyone else feel that Samus is WAAAY too big?

i seem to recall her being fairly small in melee, but then the developers decided to make her a MUCH bigger target in brawl and i dont know why

not to mention aesthetically, it looks like you could fit five ZSS' into the current brawl samus model.

 

[kupo15]

on the topic of character sizes (i know this is kind of random), but does anyone else feel that Samus is WAAAY too big?

i seem to recall her being fairly small in melee, but then the developers decided to make her a MUCH bigger target in brawl and i dont know why

not to mention aesthetically, it looks like you could fit five ZSS' into the current brawl samus model.

Oh yea, most character models are bigger than melee not too mention out of proportion IMO. Pit (a kid) looks like a brute compared to ZSS

 

[Shadic]

Samus is canonically 6'3", 200 pounds. That's pretty huge.

 

[bleyva]

200lbs? thats it? i woulda figured her to be at LEAST 250-260, but i guess thats a heavyweight :/ and here i thought bowser was supposed to be like 700 lbs lol

/off-topic post

EDIT: thats without the suit. nevermind.

 

[CloneHat]

200lbs? thats it? i woulda figured her to be at LEAST 250-260, but i guess thats a heavyweight :/ and here i thought bowser was supposed to be like 700 lbs lol

/off-topic post

200 WITHOUT the suit.

 

[WheelOfFish]

and about DIable firebeath: does that mean that bowser would be able to run while doing neutral b? O_o that would be secksy.

No, hahahah. I meant in the air. It would help approaches a little.

But it's a "terrible idea" so whatever.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Oh yea, most character models are bigger than melee not too mention out of proportion IMO. Pit (a kid) looks like a brute compared to ZSS

Melee Kirby is as big as melee Fox. Marth is skinnier than Link while being twice the size of Mario. Young Link's arrows are bigger than Ice Climbers (individually anyway). Proportions don't have to make sense <_<

 

[kupo15]

No, hahahah. I meant in the air. It would help approaches a little.

But it's a "terrible idea" so whatever.

Terrible idea as in it might be too good. It would definitely buff the fire breath but IIRC, the fire breath is already really good as is.

Melee Kirby is as big as melee Fox. Marth is skinnier than Link while being twice the size of Mario. Young Link's arrows are bigger than Ice Climbers (individually anyway). Proportions don't have to make sense <_<

I guess, but at least I didn't feel like it stuck out in melee the same way it does in brawl

 

[WheelOfFish]

Jab -> side-b is too good... or at least too auto-combo-y.

 

[leafgreen386]

Raise the SDI value on firebreath to 2.0. I think that would be an appropriate nerf in exchange for DIable firebreath.

 

[Revven]

Jab -> side-b is too good... or at least too auto-combo-y.

Not really... you shouldn't use "auto-combo" as a justification, that's like calling Falcon's jab > grab combo an auto-combo because most of the time it is successful when you can actually stop the grab coming from it. Bowser's jab > Side B just so happens to be a true combo and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[MK26]

kupo: www.urbandictionary.com :3

also, iirc we were doing to decrease the invincibility-immobility ratio of airdodges, as well as add about 5 frames after they end in which you cannot initiate another airdodge. Hopefully that 5 frame window will also be added to spot/rolldodges and initiating a shield.

it's like the only things in this game that actually make some semblance of logical sense (tripping, footstools) are the things we're trying to get rid of/neuter, so dont say that relative character model size should make sense...if it did, I'd find it hard for olimar to win

EDIT: good points from leaf and smk. Fire breath's sdi potency should probably be increased a bit regardless. and afaik DI-able fire breath would only apply to being in the air.

 

[Qzzy]

Too large a thread...

Really curious to know if there have been any suggestions on making Ganon and falcon punch usable. Or are they going to remain the same?

Dumb idea i had for Ganon was to make his punch even slower than it is now, and with more lag, but to make it a very powerful projectile. I would imagine it would hit maybe once per match, if lucky. Wouldn't want to take away from his primary playstyle with this projectile. I don;t know, it always kind of made sense to me that a guy with purple magic stuff should be able to shoot SOMETHING. </End dumb idea>

 

[SymphonicSage12]

I'm officially against editing the model size of ANY character (Well except for PSA stuff like Mewtwo and Roy)

And Bowser is fine as he is. He is NOT slow. How about developing a metagame for a couple months before doing something as drastic as REMOVING ONE OF HIS CORE WEAKNESSES?


Falcon punch and Warlock Punch are joke attacks put in by sakurai. ....although I would actually love to test a change like this.

 

[cAm8ooo]

Too large a thread...

Really curious to know if there have been any suggestions on making Ganon and falcon punch usable. Or are they going to remain the same?

Dumb idea i had for Ganon was to make his punch even slower than it is now, and with more lag, but to make it a very powerful projectile. I would imagine it would hit maybe once per match, if lucky. Wouldn't want to take away from his primary playstyle with this projectile. I don;t know, it always kind of made sense to me that a guy with purple magic stuff should be able to shoot SOMETHING. </End dumb idea>

Brawl+ generally doesn't change a move to that extent, making a move that wasnt a projectile into one drastically changes that move and is often looked downed against by the WBR. Just giving lucas a hitbox on Z-air is highly debated, giving a move a movable hitbox is pretty much out of the question. More then likely you wont see a change with either punch.

edit: Sage.... you really need some anger medication. Chill out dude and stop telling everyone to shut up when someone has a idea for something that you dont like. He wasnt holding a gun to your head or spamming 20 pages with the same idea.

 

[Qzzy]

Brawl+ generally doesn't change a move to that extent, making a move that wasnt a projectile into one drastically changes that move and is often looked downed against by the WBR. Just giving lucas a hitbox on Z-air is highly debated, giving a move a movable hitbox is pretty much out of the question. More then likely you wont see a change with either punch.

Thank you for letting me know. Was just curious. Had a dumb idea, but wasn't advocating it.

Joke moves will remain joke movies. I'm fine with that.

To Sage,

Shut up about it? I only brought it up once and didn't even plan on writing more about it. Like i said, i was just curious and the changes i suggested i knew were dumb.