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[Stevo]

was the spawn rate on gordo and capsules increased?

I get like 2-4 of those per match now. (although I spam them now more than you would normally use them lol)

 

[kr3wman]

I like this thread.

People argue over nothing for 2-3 pages to no real goal and someone posts something randomly and then people argue over that for 2-3 pages and again nothing much comes out of it.

Somebody could have just said 'Bowser always has time to upB out of it' and that would have been that.

But noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

 

[Mattnumbers]

Actually I'm pretty sure that a bunch of the arguments we've had are resulting in a plethora of changes for the game in the future.

Also I got an average of 180, yay me.

 

[Rudra]

Awesome thread is awesome.
I also heard someone ask for the Jab>Flying Slam to be removed. Why would that be an issue to begin with? It was something he could do in VBrawl since the grab was about as fast as his second Jab right?

Spoiler

lol 156 fastest and 180 slowest on the test

 

[Mattnumbers]

Awesome thread is awesome.
I also heard someone ask for the Jab>Flying Slam to be removed. Why would that be an issue to begin with? It was something he could do in VBrawl since the grab was about as fast as his second Jab right?

Spoiler

lol 156 fastest and 180 slowest on the test

He was saying to remove it as a tradeoff for something else, I forget what it was though.

Oh yeah, DIable fire breath

 

[Alphatron]

was the spawn rate on gordo and capsules increased?

I get like 2-4 of those per match now. (although I spam them now more than you would normally use them lol)

No, since I'm pretty sure you can only do that with psa and DDD *laughs* at the programs attempts to edit his PAC.

 

[Demacrez]

I feel bad, my reaction time is no where near any of you guys.

I'm actually below average. :'(

 

[Shadic]

I just woke up, so I'm averaging 215 exactly. Which is kinda funny.

I should probably go eat, and actually wake up. My mind is totally in jello or something right now.

 

[Revven]

was the spawn rate on gordo and capsules increased?

I get like 2-4 of those per match now. (although I spam them now more than you would normally use them lol)

No, nothing related to any items (unless they are specifically stated in the changelist a.k.a projectiles owned by characters) have been changed. It is merely a coincidence.

 

[Stevo]

ok, I have a replay where I spawn a capsule with lips stick, then a capsule with a freezee a couple throws later.... and then a gordo like 6 throws later or something.
Guess i was just lucky then.

I remember in vbrawl I got capsules so un-often that I thought it was just a glitch for the longest time.

bringing back a question from many pages ago..... does ANYONE play olimar? is he even balanced?

and Bowser needs Gimpyfish Story.... I mean Yoshi Story melee.... then he could counterpick on that stage and have a chance on bad matchups!

but seriously, is the falcon matchup THAT bad for Bowser?

 

[Nybb]

bringing back a question from many pages ago..... does ANYONE play olimar? is he even balanced?

I think the general consensus is that Olimar's recovery and weight balances out his above-average projectile camp game and nice combo game. Are you thinking he is too good? Or too bad?

 

[Plum]

bringing back a question from many pages ago..... does ANYONE play olimar? is he even balanced?

Olimar is freakishly ****. He can force any character to approach (Falco can outcamp depending on the level) and then stop almost any approach. His grab is absolutely amazing, his Dthrow combos like crazy, and Uthrow reliably kills. His combo game is insane and he can combo into kill moves (Nair to Usmash is ****). He combos exceptionally well, kills reliably and pretty early depending on the Pikmin, the best (maybe second to Falco) camper in the game, and all combined with his light weight and small floaty size. He combos you to hell while taking little punishment in comparison.

So in that sense, no he isn't balanced at all. He absolutely *****. But of course there's his recovery...
That alone balances him, but in the sense where he isn't broken. Honestly if he had even Mario's recovery he would be borked good. He's insanely good, but I've literally only seen AndyG play him in B+ and that was once (never heard of him playing B+ again after BtL).

 

[GHNeko]

ok, I have a replay where I spawn a capsule with lips stick, then a capsule with a freezee a couple throws later.... and then a gordo like 6 throws later or something.
Guess i was just lucky then.

I remember in vbrawl I got capsules so un-often that I thought it was just a glitch for the longest time.

bringing back a question from many pages ago..... does ANYONE play olimar? is he even balanced?

and Bowser needs Gimpyfish Story.... I mean Yoshi Story melee.... then he could counterpick on that stage and have a chance on bad matchups!

but seriously, is the falcon matchup THAT bad for Bowser?

Turn your items all OFF and then turn your frequency to NONE.

Also, Olimar is probably like Luigi was. Really **** good, but because no one cares or notices him, he's basically ignored. :V

If he is too ****, balance will come accordingly.

 

[Shadic]

There was a bit of fuss about Luigi a while back, because of how he reacted to hitstun vs. floatiness, and how fast/high priority his Nair was.

...What ever happened to that?

 

[WheelOfFish]

I also heard someone ask for the Jab>Flying Slam to be removed. Why would that be an issue to begin with? It was something he could do in VBrawl since the grab was about as fast as his second Jab right?[/SPOILER]

Matt is right, I was asking for a trade-off: remove his jab -> side-b for DI-able firebreath. It makes the game less auto-combo and DI-able firebreath would be absolutely awesome.

 

[Stevo]

im under the thinking he is too good... but I dont really play him or against him all that often....

EDIT: Olimar that is

I guess might as well balance him after the tweaks to hitstun, hitlag, etc.etc. is finished.

when do you guys plan to "go gold"? in half a year?

wouldnt my items be set to off and none with the default options code? I guess I'll have to check

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

What do you guys mean, DI-able firebreath?

 

[JCaesar]

I played AndyG at BtL ... his Oli is stupidly good. I picked up 2 new characters that day just to try to find an Oli counter because he's that ridiculous. Olimar's very rarely played though so it's hard to build a case for him being "too good" right now.

Didn't AndyG win that tourney?

 

[GHNeko]

he did. LOL.

But grand finals were falcon dittos so I dont think Oli really won, though Winners finals were more intense than grand finals.

 

[GHNeko]

There was a bit of fuss about Luigi a while back, because of how he reacted to hitstun vs. floatiness, and how fast/high priority his Nair was.

...What ever happened to that?

Nair was nerfed and we're planning on adding hitstun to the guy. :3

 

[Plum]

he did. LOL.

But grand finals were falcon dittos so I dont think Oli really won, though Winners finals were more intense than grand finals.

Winners were so sick.
0 death on Squirtle... if that doesn't prove Oli's **** then I don't know what does :V

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Link to vids?

 

[Wavedash Master]

Thoughts of changing Brawl+'s game mechanics have been discussed. Are these being considered for the next build or these changes being put aside for a later build?

 

[MK26]

re: hitstun

there are characters we think need less, becuase they have too much. There are also those we think have too little and need more. There arent any that have relatively little and need less on an absolute scale, nor are there any that have a lot and need more. Thus, if we decrease histun slightly, those that are affected a lot will have a larger absolute decrease than those that have too litle, even though the relative decrease is the same. Therefore, once we find the right value, a slight hitstun decrease will make the heavies more viable by decreasing their combo-fodder-ness, while doing little to harm their string-based games. Also, there are very few staple combos that will get harmed by this slight decrease - only stupid things like snake's triple utilt combos or yoshi eggs comboing into themselves will be weakened.

 

[WheelOfFish]

What do you guys mean, DI-able firebreath?

In it's current state, you can't DI while using Bowser's neutral-b (firebreath). DI-able firebreath would allow Bowser to move during the move.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

O.o

That seems like it would be easily breakable...

 

[CloneHat]

Thoughts of changing Brawl+'s game mechanics have been discussed. Are these being considered for the next build or these changes being put aside for a later build?

I'm under the impression we're going through with the ledge ideas.

 

[zxeon]

These magnet ledges are too good. You can't play any ledge game because your target will warp past you to the ledge. It's very annoying.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

^ Which is exactly why we would want to shorten the magnets in exchange for a deeper ledge game (a.k.a ledgeteching.)

and about DIable firebeath: does that mean that bowser would be able to run while doing neutral b? O_o that would be secksy.

And I <3 Peach as she is now. All of her moves have a use.


Although....I'm looking forward the airdodges tweakes, since right now it's better to just neutral b than airdodge >.>

 

[kupo15]

Thoughts of changing Brawl+'s game mechanics have been discussed. Are these being considered for the next build or these changes being put aside for a later build?

I sincerely hope that just about all mechanics discussed will be in the next build. Those codes are in orange in my thread for reference.

DIable Fire breath sounds like a terrible idea. I even think that Crawl SA is wacked out as well.

Bowsers problems lie in the fact that he is just too big a target. You should consider testing out adjusting his size to be smaller instead of adding these strange buffs that don't really address the real reason why he is lacking. I also don't know how bowser performs, but from what I remember, it seemed like you guys wanted to turn him into a combo character when I think he would be better suited as a really strong character or one where most moves send low to get them off the stage. Considering he is incredibly slow, landing a hit from an opening should be somewhat brutal given how many hits he receives, but not as harsh as V1 Fire Fsmash was.

Also, I felt that higher gravity overall helped bowser out in melee because he had more of a ground game and an easier time edge guarding. In b+, floaty normally means less ground game, more air follow ups (aka strings) and we all know just how hard it is to zone given the lack of zoning mechanics.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkL1QKF-xgQ

Quick little video I made showcasing Shanus's FHFFL and SHFFL for Falco. It seems pretty stable; no bugs, it is a bit hard right now, but takes practice to learn the timing.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Kupo, in most Mario games, Bowser is really big. It makes sense canonically. This is sort of an exaggerated concept, but in Super Mario Sunshine, he was the size of a huge swimming pool. >.>

And the laser stuff looks cool, TGYMK. But please make my brstm request D:

 

[kupo15]

Holy **** that Fast fall is incredibly fast. Seems faster than Melee Falcon ><

Sage: I thought we didn't take tips from the games they were in? I thought it was about functionality in Smash. He can be as big as he wants in his games.

Not that I care. Whatever you guys want to do with Bowser.

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

Holy **** that Fast fall is incredibly fast. Seems faster than Melee Falcon ><

Me:
LordKombox (30 seconds ago) i think a bit shorter sh (and a bit less fastfall velocity)

 

[SymphonicSage12]

And you also have to remember that youtube videos show it a little faster than it actually is.

 

[Wavedash Master]

Also, I felt that higher gravity overall helped bowser out in melee because he had more of a ground game and an easier time edge guarding. In b+, floaty normally means less ground game, more air follow ups (aka strings) and we all know just how hard it is to zone given the lack of zoning mechanics.

Perhaps these ledge ideas would give him more of a ledgeguarding game (obliviously, going off the stage to edge guard is not a smart move with Bowser). I'm also thinking these air dodge changes might help Bowser "zone". You can only air dodge if you are out of hitstun, and against Bowser isn't reliant on combos, these shortened air dodges make a easier time for Bowser when he produces these aerial follow ups.

 

[kupo15]

Me:
LordKombox (30 seconds ago) i think a bit shorter sh (and a bit less fastfall velocity)

Thats what I was thinking myself actually.

On the topic of lasers, please give fox (in the air only) and wolf (only in the air unless the bayonet hitbox is there too) Falco's laser animation. Its so incredibly stupid looking to see fox esp hold his blaster in front of him like a ****** when firing in the air. Melee Fox blaster animation is much more stylish and bad ***

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

And you also have to remember that youtube videos show it a little faster than it actually is.

This. It's not really too fast IMO.

Kupo, no. Not possible. :3

Also, part 2 coming up: FHFFL/SHFFL in action.

 

[Mattnumbers]

I really want to try out FF PK Fire.

I'm not entirely sure how beneficial it would actually be, cause really I need to test it out first, but I would like to try it.

 

[kupo15]

Tri: The ledge changes will definitely help. I'm not sure the plan of action for air dodges. It sounds like they will actually become buffed instead of nerfed if they are planning on shortening the animation to provoke "more precision" timing. But that sounds exactly like how spot dodges are now which proved to be OP so these new changes would be like spot dodging in the air, or so it seems. I hope they test and consider the gravity changes with the default AD lengths that I proposed. On paper, it seems more balanced



Also, what is this :3 Ive seen it but don't know what kind of face it is