Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[TLMSheikant]

Meeeeleeeee. lol. Why make his shine frame 1? O_o

 

[GHNeko]

Because it was in Melee!!!!

But really, what's wrong with his shine now?

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

Because it was in Melee!!!!

But really, what's wrong with his shine now?

nothing, its not needed.

 

[zxeon]

No trade-offs this isn't balance it's justice. It's too slow jumping out on frame three. it feels laggy.

 

[Mattnumbers]

I don't even think its possible for the human mind to perceive a change of 2 frames.

Saying that 3 frames feels laggy is ridiculous. Unless you still actively play Melee fox.

 

[CloneHat]

We need some more infinite drillshines.

 

[stingers]

brawl+ shine is definitely noticeably slower then melee shine...lol

 

[zxeon]

I don't even think its possible for the human mind to perceive a change of 2 frames.

Saying that 3 frames feels laggy is ridiculous. Unless you still actively play Melee fox.

By your definition people who play Fox can't really be called human or people for that matter so I'll amend my earlier statement.

Players who use Fox can't possibly be human. That makes a lot more sense.

Oh, and not being able to shine during the initial dash animation sucks harder than a thousand black holes.

 

[Mattnumbers]

I guess you could tell a 2 frame difference now that I think about it, I was thinking about how you can't tell a change of 2 FPS at higher FPS's for some reason lol.

Sorry my bad.

Still he's already really really good.

 

[zxeon]

Don't hate because he has on of the few good move pools. Victory is his destiny. Where have I heard that before?

 

[Chepe]

I just downloaded and played the latest codeset offered at the site under "Direct Link to GTC" and noticed some inconsistencies with the Changelist on the same page. Specifically, the Conditional Action Modifier that's supposed to prevent certain special moves from placing the character in special fall isn't working. Using Zelda's Side B in the air and Lucario's Up B has put me in special fall, for example.

I wanted to ask if this was a purposeful change in the latest nightly build?

 

[zxeon]

You kind of have to get all the character.PAC files too if you're going to do it manually. There is a new system for handling some character specific stuff and the data is stored on those .PAC files.

 

[GHNeko]

Oh, and not being able to shine during the initial dash animation sucks harder than a thousand black holes.

JC Shine *****.

I just downloaded and played the latest codeset offered at the site under "Direct Link to GTC" and noticed some inconsistencies with the Changelist on the same page. Specifically, the Conditional Action Modifier that's supposed to prevent certain special moves from placing the character in special fall isn't working. Using Zelda's Side B in the air and Lucario's Up B has put me in special fall, for example.

I wanted to ask if this was a purposeful change in the latest nightly build?

Get the B+ Installer. :V

 

[Doval]

I'm liking this build. Although, to be honest, it seems pretty silly to be able to interrupt Ganon's up-tilt after the hit box comes out.

 

[GHNeko]

It'll be gone. :3

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Chepe you need the pac files for the characters, too. >.>


And yes, ganon's utilt is 2gud mindgames right now. Cancelling it instantaneously when you hit someone is just plain weird. O_o

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

The interruption or interrupting it during the hitbox? Because why remove the interrupt?

 

[leafgreen386]

On the topic of fox's shine...

You bunch of babies!

Have you ever thought that it's not the shine that's too slow but instead it's the player? Right now, fox's shine comes out frame 2 (yes, we changed it) and it can be JC'd as early as frame 3. You can JC the frame after it hits.

Let's look at the melee shine for a moment here. It hits frame 1, you can't do anything frames 2 and 3, and it starts reflecting and can be JC'd frame 4. Would you look at that? You have to wait a whole three frames to JC fox's shine in melee from when the move hits to when you can JC it. Not only that, but the brawl+ shine can be JC'd sooner than the melee shine.

Had we left the shine start alone, hitting frame 3 and being JCable frame 4, it would stillbe JCable at the same exact time as the melee shine was, just without the two frame gap between the hit and the JC. The shine's brawl+ frame data is actually superior to the melee frame data. Not hitting frame 1 doesn't really matter when you have invincibility.

And if you don't believe me about not being able to JC fox's shine in melee until frame 4, perhaps you should check out this thread and look at how long it is from when hitlag ends to when it says "jump start."

 

[Dantarion]

Yeah, I think you should only be able to cancel it into shield, so at least there is SOME lag after canceling it, and you definetly shouldn't be able to cancel it after it hits.

To be honest, the ablity to cancel a strong kill move into your fastest move is probably not a good thing.

 

[DarkDragoon]

Yeah, I think you should only be able to cancel it into shield, so at least there is SOME lag after canceling it, and you definetly shouldn't be able to cancel it after it hits.

To be honest, the ablity to cancel a strong kill move into your fastest move is probably not a good thing.

That's like DSmashing Twice with MK in vBrawl.
lawl.

Also;
Get ***** people who thought shine was worse.

-DD

 

[zxeon]

It's better when it hit's on frame one. The fact that the particle effect happens and then the move hits makes it look slow which doesn't make it slow but it makes it look like it is and that takes the shock (No pun intended) value out of the move which disarms it of it's lightning fast (I'm just full of these) high risk reversal nature. Besides you have to be smooching distance from Fox to actually get hit by it make it worth it.

I could cry a river over this subject and the initial dash situation.

 

[WheelOfFish]

Can we make the first hits of Snake's auto-combos not have incredibly little knockback? Seriously, it's pretty broken that he can hit with both hits of f-tilt beyond 100%... and it allows for some pretty ridiculous jab-canceled combos.

 

[CloneHat]

Shock? Reversal nature? There's a 1 frame difference.

I don't really understand what you're saying.

 

[leafgreen386]

It's better when it hit's on frame one. The fact that the particle effect happens and then the move hits makes it look slow which doesn't make it slow but it makes it look like it is and that takes the shock (No pun intended) value out of the move which disarms it of it's lightning fast (I'm just full of these) high risk reversal nature. Besides you have to be smooching distance from Fox to actually get hit by it make it worth it.

I could cry a river over this subject and the initial dash situation.

...

If you have a good reaction time, it's about 15 frames. There is no way it coming out frame 2 is making a difference. At all.

First you complain about how the JC takes too long (when it can actually be done sooner than melee) and then you complain that the move itself feels slow. Do you have any idea just how stupid that sounds?

 

[zxeon]

I can see the difference.

If it's such a non-issue why not make it frame one? Seeing as it doesn't matter.

 

[GHNeko]

Because there is no reason why it should be one frame when its fine at 3?

 

[zxeon]

Because there is no reason why it should be one frame when its fine at 3?

I thought it was frame two?

 

[GHNeko]

...errr

You can JC frame 4 and it hits on 3 while you're invincible 1-2.

 

[Shadic]

Why so much focus on making an already good character better? Seems like the Shine Cancel is already a big add to his game. Just like giving Falco a double laser.

Any chance we can discuss a character that's not a spacey, a psychic kid, or a broken ball of masked swordiness?

 

[leafgreen386]

...errr

You can JC frame 4 and it hits on 3 while you're invincible 1-2.

We sped it up so that it hits frame 2 and can be JC'd frame 3, remember? And yes, you are invincible 1-2, although if we didn't do the speedup, it would've been 1-3.

 

[GHNeko]

Oh I missed that then.

My bad.

 

[zxeon]

It's a lot of work making bad characters good while good charaacters they are one tweak away from awesome results.

 

[Mattnumbers]

Making the Shine 1 frame faster wouldn't exactly be "awesome results" imo

 

[zxeon]

I wasn't talking about this in specific but maybe it is in my dictionary.

 

[Shadic]

I think the misconception on the move's speed is because the shine effect itself is slower.

..Which doesn't effect anything.

 

[WheelOfFish]

You know what? I wouldn't mind Bowser getting DI-able firebreath. Make it so jab -> side-b isn't a true combo in exchange.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

So is CF's knee too big? It's ridiculously easy to sweetspot...

 

[Mattnumbers]

I've been thinking, and if shanus gets that FF during special code working I want to try it with PK Fire. I'm not exactly sure how your momentum would react to FFing, but I do know that you go farther when you wavebounce in Brawl+, which is actually negative if you are just spacing with it.

EDIT: yeah, I'm pretty sure they're adjusting the knee in the next nightly already.

 

[CountKaiser]

Zxeon, it's a one frame difference, and you're invincible anyway, so what does it matter?

Shock value? It's one frame. ONE FRAME. I'm sure hitting frame 2 instead of 1 will not make that big a difference. The human mind cannot perceive a difference of one frame, I'm quite sure.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

EDIT: yeah, I'm pretty sure they're adjusting the knee in the next nightly already.

Good. It should be at least a little harder to sweetspot that (I can pretty much do it without trying, and I never played falcon before picking him up in Brawl+ casually).

Next, why are people for removing the utilt cancel on ganon? Call me biased (I am, it's fun to do), but why should you remove it? Instead, make the IASA frames end when the leg comes down.