Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[Rudra]

I dont have anything against the Utilt Cancel, but I think that there has to be a time before the Kick that it's not interruptable...you know, so that you actually have to commit to it at a certain point of the move...

 

[leafgreen386]

I dont have anything against the Utilt Cancel, but I think that there has to be a time before the Kick that it's not interruptable...you know, so that you actually have to commit to it at a certain point of the move...

This would actually be very easily doable. I could probably code up a utilt that is only cancelable on certain frames in a couple minutes. However, that doesn't change the fact that it's an ugly cancel, and it doesn't look polished at all. I could see raising the utility of the move very slightly through other buffs (shell had some ideas that didn't seem too ridiculous), but there's just no way to make the cancel work out.

 

[GameSystem]

Add a hitbox on the way up. You know the part where he is throwing his foot in the air. BBrawl also did that wind damage thing. Apparently it ***** shields. Steal their ideas.

 

[Revven]

Add a hitbox on the way up. You know the part where he is throwing his foot in the air. BBrawl also did that wind damage thing. Apparently it ***** shields. Steal their ideas.

I don't think it should have a hitbox on the wind up of the move, that's kind of silly (durr I hit you away but I really just wanna hit you with my explosion). Wind damage... no, that would **** our shields A LOT MORE than BBrawl's shields because of shieldstun. Shell is already working on a Utilt that makes sense and nobody should have any real problems with it.

 

[Alphatron]

1% damage on Ganon's crotch wind wouldn't **** shields and would barely have any hitstun.

But I'm interested in seeing Shell's changes a lot more than keeping the cancel.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

XD crotch wind.


anyways, aren't the frame speed mods less useful now that you can edit frame speeds in PSA?

 

[CountKaiser]

Yes

We will still Need them for the pokes and DDD, though.

Speaking of PSA, which attributes in PSA correspond to dgrav, fgrav, and ugrav?

 

[SymphonicSage12]

yeah, the only thing I wish phantom wings would work right now is trying to get the pokes and dedede to work

 

[Doval]

1% damage on Ganon's crotch wind wouldn't **** shields and would barely have any hitstun.

If the wind hit boxes "refresh" often enough (which I would imagine it has to, in order to continually pull you in) it very well could. A 1% attack stuns for 5 frames in Brawl+. That means that if another wind hit box catches your shield again before those 5 frames are over, you've got a shield stun trap. Granted, it should be possible to Smash DI out of it. But it still sounds pretty lame.

As for the up-tilt cancel, I actually liked the idea, but not as loosely as it was implemented. I agree that the window of opportunity for canceling needs to start later, and like I said before, the window for canceling should close when the hit boxes come out. I also don't like that it's IASA - it's pretty stupid that he can do anything out of it. Perhaps limit it to B moves? Canceling into Side B or Down B wouldn't be bad. Could Side B away from the opponent if you think you'll miss - it wouldn't be as lame as being able to run, shield, roll or sidestep out of it whenever.

Of course if there's a better version of the Up Tilt in the works, all the better, but I have a hard time imagining modifications that would make the move useful without being silly.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Random thought: +1 for nearly no lag on Peach up b landing like in melee (unnecessary buff, but I'd like it)

Anyways, the damaging wind on ganon's utilt would be either lame or broken in my eyes. There isn't really a good in-between that I could think of.

 

[TLMSheikant]

+1 for the peach no lag upb .

 

[MK26]

+0 for peach no lag
+1 for peach being able to sweetspot the ledge backward
+2 for somebody fixing lylat's edges

 

[kupo15]

+1 for the peach no lag upb .

IIRC, peach only had practically no landing lag if the parasol was closed

 

[SymphonicSage12]

well, I don't know if that would be possible kupo but I would like it.

and I just footstooled someone after I wizkick meteor smashed them.

God, I love you, Ganondorf

 

[IC3R]

+0 for peach no lag
+1 for peach being able to sweetspot the ledge backward

Should we mess with her recovery at all? It's pretty good as it is...

+2 for somebody fixing lylat's edges

What's wrong with them?

 

[leafgreen386]

Yes

We will still Need them for the pokes and DDD, though.

Speaking of PSA, which attributes in PSA correspond to dgrav, fgrav, and ugrav?

fgrav = gravity
ugrav and dgrav = don't exist, afaik, although if someone could prove me wrong, that would be awesome

 

[SymphonicSage12]

peach no parasol landing lag when it's closed wouldn't help her recovery. It would just make it more useful as an attack. Although it IS an unnecessary buff.


I guess it's just me and my love of melee parasol speaking again.

 

[CountKaiser]

fgrav = gravity
ugrav and dgrav = don't exist, afaik, although if someone could prove me wrong, that would be awesome

So wait, dgrav doesn't exist in the game, or it doesn't exist in PSA?

If it's the former, how does that explain the character specific physics? We can feel the dgrav in there when it's too high.

 

[IC3R]

Leafgreen quoted a post regarding PSA, so I assume dgrav and ugrav don't exist in PSA.

 

[leafgreen386]

So wait, dgrav doesn't exist in the game, or it doesn't exist in PSA?

If it's the former, how does that explain the character specific physics? We can feel the dgrav in there when it's too high.

Fgrav... is both dgrav and ugrav. We've been over this before. I'm obviously referring to PSA when I say dgrav and ugrav "don't exist," since otherwise we wouldn't have distinguished between them for so long. I only know of a value that controls fgrav in PSA (the one labeled "gravity"). There might be ones that control dgrav and ugrav, too... it's just unlikely.

 

[WheelOfFish]

You know Metaknight discussion sorta halted, and the consensus seemed to be that he's still too good. In addition to nerfing him, it would be cool if we could make him a more technical character too. Obviously, right now Brawl+ is trying to stray away from easy-mode, so it'd be nice if MK (an easier character) got some depth.

Peach can grab the ledge backwards by the way... her parasol just needs to be closed.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Peach can grab the ledge backwards by the way... her parasol just needs to be closed.

which is exactly the part a lot of peach mains hate. She should be to grab it while her parasol is open backwards just like anyone else in the game.

 

[WheelOfFish]

But she doesn't need it. Peach mains need to be less stupid and not do their up-b backwards, and if they do, they should close it before attempting to grab the ledge.

I don't know what Peach mains you are talking about, but as someone who has played Peach since Melee, I don't have a problem with it.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

except for the fact that when you close your parasol you lose a ton of horizontal mobility. and there are reasons to do your up b backwards on purpose.

 

[WheelOfFish]

Aside from the obvious reason that Peach's horizontal recovery is alreadyd awesome, the change wouldn't make sense. Really, why would Peach need to do her up-b backwards while she's off the stage, and so far away that she couldn't make it back close to the ledge before closing her parasol?

 

[SymphonicSage12]

I've heard the that peach bomber kbg increase is going.

.........

rage mode activated in 3, 2, 1....


and wheel of fish, the main point is that her up b while closed has suckish mobility, so you have to be like above the stage in the first place for latch on backwards, in which point you should've just floated or fell back to the ledge.

 

[Shadic]

G&W can catch the ledge backwards with his parachute, can he not? If so, Peach should definitely get it.

I don't know about G&W, because I never play him.

 

[Mattnumbers]

G&W can catch the ledge backwards with his parachute, can he not? If so, Peach should definitely get it.

I don't know about G&W, because I never play him.

What does game and watch have to do with Peach? They are completely different characters. Not to mention that G&W doesn't even have a direction when he uses upB he just goes straight up and can drift either way.

 

[CloneHat]

You can't take away the bomber! It'll be useless again!

It's a crappy recovery; you can't hit it against the side of the stage, and it won't kill until 250% or something.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

all character have a direction with their up b >.>


so on the brawl+ chat some people are talking about peach side b nerfs and up b buffs. Does anyone have any input on this?


Personally I'd be in favor of buffing up b in an exchange for a nerf somewhere other than her side b.

But, please, for dear god, do NOT remove her side b buff.

 

[Shadic]

What does game and watch have to do with Peach? They are completely different characters. Not to mention that G&W doesn't even have a direction when he uses upB he just goes straight up and can drift either way.

Because their Up-Bs share things in common? That'd be like making it so Metaknight can grab onto the ledge from his glide, but Pit and Charizard couldn't.

 

[CloneHat]

all character have a direction with their up b >.>


so on the brawl+ chat some people are talking about peach side b nerfs and up b buffs. Does anyone have any input on this?


Personally I'd be in favor of buffing up b in an exchange for a nerf somewhere other than her side b.

But, please, for dear god, do NOT remove her side b buff.

^^^Above post is my opinion on the bomber.

I don't think she needs an up B buff, but maybe a SECOND JUMP that goes higher than a foot into the air. It's almost like it isn't there.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

the hard part is making a tradeoff that would deepen her game.


Now...what kind of things could we add to her to make her deeper (a.k.a JC shine)


.... I have an idea...


NVM

 

[kupo15]

But she doesn't need it. Peach mains need to be less stupid and not do their up-b backwards, and if they do, they should close it before attempting to grab the ledge.

I don't know what Peach mains you are talking about, but as someone who has played Peach since Melee, I don't have a problem with it.

I completely disagree. Firstly, you can't compare peach from melee to brawl in this situation and say "well, she couldn't do it before, so what?" because the truth is, the majority also could not grab backwards as well.

Secondly, it makes no sense why she can grab forward with the parasol but not backwards. To me, its an arbitrary tech skill to be forced to close it at the last second if you wish to grab. There also is no reason why she is the only character that can't reverse grab. It should be fixed because Brawl obviously screwed up

 

[MK26]

There also is no reason why she is the only character that can't reverse grab.

Kirby and Ike say hi.

 

[kupo15]

Hmmm, good point however, I'm pretty sure Ike can grab backwards, (at the very least at the turn) and I'm not sure about kirby. Might be the same

 

[Heavyarms2050]

Toon Link needs to be nerf. His up-smash is broken, and he has no punishable moves.

Samus needs a buff in her neutral air, back air, down-smash, and dash attack.

Ganondorf, needs nerfs, his side-b seems like easy hit with anyone, tap-A is WAY too good.

 

[RyuReiatsu]

Toon Link needs to be nerf. His up-smash is broken, and he has no punishable moves.

Samus needs a buff in her neutral air, back air, down-smash, and dash attack.

Ganondorf, needs nerfs, his side-b seems like easy hit with anyone, tap-A is WAY too good.

About Ganon, he's still very beatable. I don't see why you're asking for nerfs.

 

[MK26]

lol Ike can grab backward, the range is just ridiculously small...

Kirby, however, cannot.

Ganon just needs his jab and aerial down-b landing speed-ups toned down

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

I got cp'd with mk in b+.