Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[GHNeko]

Okay. So MK drawing board full. Now save it for later because we're not nerfing him now. You're gonna have to wait for a long time ie next nightly.


And this AT would better benefit characters with long dashes rather than short ones, though you still couldnt spam it, and DC grab would be better in certain situations.

 

[MK26]

w00t jc grab out of init dash?

If only I could find a way to get PSA to allow me to implement techjumping...*strokes chin*

 

[GHNeko]

Not JC Grab. :V

 

[Plum]

So I have Captain Falcon taunt canceling.
IASA frames on the start of his taunts, but I still need to adjust it so it can only be canceled by an initial dash.

If a voice clip is played right at the start of the taunt it will continue to play despite being canceled, just like in Smash 64.

So basically this needs to be in the game now, well the next Nightly rather. I would put it up, but first I want to get the IASA frames only canceled into a dash. Next step would be to give it to every character. It's the closest thing to taunt canceling I think we can get, and it is sexy has hell.

If somebody who can work PSA better than I can (practically anybody :V) then feel free to whip it up yourself

 

[timothyung]

Why are we discussing nerfs of a character who MAY be too good >.>

Taunt canceling... I have an idea. A taunt can only be canceled into taunts.

 

[GHNeko]

I already suggested that LOL.

IIRC, PK said a code would have to be made.

 

[timothyung]

Wow really? Good.

But I can't see where you mentioned that. Where is it?

 

[VietGeek]

And put in air clanking already. :V

There seems to already be a property in the game that allows for some aerials to clank with other moves FOR REALZ.

It seems Marth's nair can clank with MK's glide attack. And his tip fair can clank with MK's dash attack hitbox.

Yeah that's some whackass stuff.

Then again this is the same amazingness that brought Falco beating TL in clank wars with utilt. -_-

 

[GHNeko]

Brawl+: wait....WHAT!? REALLY!? ...SAAAAAAAAKURRAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!

 

[stingers]

Brawl+: Have fun approaching

 

[shanus]

we aren't making that Neko, it was already agreed upon it seemed like a definitive no

 

[Alphatron]

He could still clank, and most of his aerials are would then beat out projectiles. <_>

How often does anyone actually make use of using attacks to clank with projectiles? Good projectiles I mean.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

I vote for JC grab. I use this like crazy for Mewtwo in melee. :D It would be really useful for peach as well since her dash grab has a lot more lag.

 

[JCaesar]

JC grabs are pointless when we already have DC grabs which do the same thing.

We just need DC during init dash. That would solve all problems and leave us with a unique Brawl+ AT instead of a rehashed Melee one.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

>.> fine. but DC grabs have more lag than JC grabs.

 

[JCaesar]

No, they don't.

In fact, JC+ grabs were going to be designed to be extra laggy. *sorry Neko, I've revealed your master plan *

 

[Sanu]

JC grabs are pointless when we already have DC grabs which do the same thing.

We just need DC during init dash. That would solve all problems and leave us with a unique Brawl+ AT instead of a rehashed Melee one.

This idea is a good idea. I vote JCaesar for president.

 

[grim mouser]

We just need DC during init dash. That would solve all problems and leave us with a unique Brawl+ AT instead of a rehashed Melee one.

I thought this was discussed once, and was deemed broken? IIRC the argument was that it made pivoting pointless (or something like that?).

 

[GHNeko]

we aren't making that Neko, it was already agreed upon it seemed like a definitive no

ffff what happened? Couldn't get the flub to work?

 

[JCaesar]

I thought this was discussed once, and was deemed broken? IIRC the argument was that it made pivoting pointless (or something like that?).

I don't recall ever seeing any proof that DC during initial dash would be broken (though I welcome someone to try). I personally think that, since B+ has no wavedashing, any improvement to movement/spacing options is a good thing.

And so what if it makes pivoting pointless? 95% of players don't use true pivots anyways because they're so difficult. One of Brawl+'s goals is to be accessible, and true pivots aren't exactly an accessible AT. DC during initial dash makes sense and is completely intuitive.

One thing I think we should do though, is differentiate standing grabs from running grabs more, so you don't always want to DC grab. Maybe make running grabs in general have a longer grab window but more endlag or something like that.

 

[stingers]

jcaes i heard if you go into group memberships in the user cp you can change back to gRAPE and the pink goes away

 

[VietGeek]

JCaesar, it's because dashdancing is based partly on how long your initial dash is. A long initial dash is balanced out by making it so you're reduced to only options from a jump or Side-B/dash attack/grab/shield.

By making it so you can cancel at any moment of the dash to ANY action you want (not just grabs or anything...which is what JC grabs would do), it makes those limits pointless.

A long dashdance but have to commit more to the dash otherwise balances itself out...somewhat. But adding in init. dash cancel would completely make that null and void.

I'm not saying it WILL be broken ABSOLUTELY, but it'll give even more control and space dictation to MK/Falcon/Marth/Squirtle.

Also JC grabs is too amazing for Brawl+, sorry. Falcon and Sonic at full run can slide like nearly half of FD. It's based off momentum capture so it's very different from dash canceled grabs actually.

TL's JC grab is also SO ****ING AMAZING. <_<

but broken things are broken

 

[GHNeko]

So...

Shanus couldnt get the flub working on JC+ Grabs?

 

[Yingyay]

JCaesar, it's because dashdancing is based partly on how long your initial dash is. A long initial dash is balanced out by making it so you're reduced to only options from a jump or Side-B/dash attack/grab/shield.

By making it so you can cancel at any moment of the dash to ANY action you want (not just grabs or anything...which is what JC grabs would do), it makes those limits pointless.

A long dashdance but have to commit more to the dash otherwise balances itself out...somewhat. But adding in init. dash cancel would completely make that null and void.

I'm not saying it WILL be broken ABSOLUTELY, but it'll give even more control and space dictation to MK/Falcon/Marth/Squirtle.

Also JC grabs is too amazing for Brawl+, sorry. Falcon and Sonic at full run can slide like nearly half of FD. It's based off momentum capture so it's very different from dash canceled grabs actually.

TL's JC grab is also SO ****ING AMAZING. <_<

but broken things are broken

This....this right here

 

[Revven]

Also JC grabs is too amazing for Brawl+, sorry. Falcon and Sonic at full run can slide like nearly half of FD. It's based off momentum capture so it's very different from dash canceled grabs actually.

TL's JC grab is also SO ****ING AMAZING. <_<

but broken things are broken

Falcon had a friction tweak and you forgot about MK's friction, he would be sliding a LOT more with Dthrow than one could imagine >_>.

 

[CountKaiser]

So wait, no new sexy AT's?

This annoys me and makes me sad.

 

[GHNeko]

Working on it. :V

Considering I came up with the idea and I have yet to have an explination. Lol.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

And so what if it makes pivoting pointless? 95% of players don't use true pivots anyways because they're so difficult. One of Brawl+'s goals is to be accessible, and true pivots aren't exactly an accessible AT. DC during initial dash makes sense and is completely intuitive.

One thing I think we should do though, is differentiate standing grabs from running grabs more, so you don't always want to DC grab. Maybe make running grabs in general have a longer grab window but more endlag or something like that.

So because it's a hard technique, you want to remove it (i.e. make it nearly obsolete) so that it can become more of an "easy-button" for people who simply pick up the game and expect to be good? Not everything has to be easy; IMO, this game is a little too far on the easy side, already. (I know people who have quit B+ because it's still way too easy.) And in doing this, you also get rid of a great balancing factor that VietGeek mentioned. If you make it so that you can DC from initial dash, it'll just make long dashes much better and short ones not so much better; there's no balance in that. Again, I couldn't have said it better than what VietGeek said regarding this issue.

But that other idea of yours (the "make running grabs in general have a longer grab window but more endlag" idea), IMO, is an interesting one.

 

[timothyung]

Taunt canceling as a new AT plz.

 

[GHNeko]

Initially I wanted 4 grabs.

You've got your normal standing, and your normal dash.

Then your DC Grab and your JC+ grab.

JC+ would simply be a (imo) more balanced and less centralizing version of Melee JC grabs, but the catch is if you miss, you suffer additional wind down, not as much as a dash though. That way, JC grabs would be brough back but wouldnt be the best grab a huge majority of the time. The only thing it would do is make dash grabs less useful, but if we use'd JC's idea of giving dash grabs a longer grab window, while still having the most end lag out of all the grabs, we'd have a **** grab selection for the whole roster.

 

[WheelOfFish]

I like the idea of taunt canceling... but I don't think I could handle hearing it from Pit.

The fight- the fight- the fight- the fight is you aren't ready yet.

Really like Fox's shine upgrade, but for some reason Ganon's u-tilt will not cancel. I've tried button mashing, dodge rolling, crying, jabbing, but no results. I checked and his pac file is definitely in place.

 

[Isatis]

I like the idea of taunt canceling... but I don't think I could handle hearing it from Pit.

The fight- the fight- the fight- the fight is you aren't ready yet.

Really like Fox's shine upgrade, but for some reason Ganon's u-tilt will not cancel. I've tried button mashing, dodge rolling, crying, jabbing, but no results. I checked and his pac file is definitely in place.

You're too- You're too- You're too- You're too slow

 

[DarkDragoon]

You're too- You're too- You're too- You're too slow

moar like

la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-SUHWEET

And yea, no "easy button super AT" because that is how we ended up with Brawl in the first place. This game, as previously stated, is easy enough to pick up and play for anyone with half of a brain. We want there to be a line between people who know what they're doing and people who don't, which has already happened for the most part...and not for it to be blurred again by adding some element to the gameplay which allows for greater results for an easier action.

People can't true pivot? Sucks to be them. If they want to be good then they're going to sit and practice their pivots or go play something else.

-DD

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Initially I wanted 4 grabs.

You've got your normal standing, and your normal dash.

Then your DC Grab and your JC+ grab.

JC+ would simply be a (imo) more balanced and less centralizing version of Melee JC grabs, but the catch is if you miss, you suffer additional wind down, not as much as a dash though. That way, JC grabs would be brough back but wouldnt be the best grab a huge majority of the time. The only thing it would do is make dash grabs less useful, but if we use'd JC's idea of giving dash grabs a longer grab window, while still having the most end lag out of all the grabs, we'd have a **** grab selection for the whole roster.

What about the pivot grab, non-sliding pivot grab, shield-cancel normal grab...? I'd agree with a global grab window increase on dash grabs but nothing more than 3 (compared to a standing grab's 2). As it is right now, we have 0 problems grabbing people and with most characters the risk of missing any grab is more than worth the reward. JC+ grab with momentum physics are bleaaargh.

There's also nothing really wrong with true ATs like true pivots. If anything B+ needs more such ATs that separate the men from the boys.

 

[MK26]

Hii Hii Hii Hii Hii Hii Hii Hii Hii Hii Hii Hii Hii Hii Hii Hii Hii Hii Hii Hii Hii Hii Hii Hii Hii Hii Hii Hii...Pew!

Techjumping gogogo!

 

[GHNeko]

What about the pivot grab, non-sliding pivot grab, shield-cancel normal grab...? I'd agree with a global grab window increase on dash grabs but nothing more than 3 (compared to a standing grab's 2). As it is right now, we have 0 problems grabbing people and with most characters the risk of missing any grab is more than worth the reward. JC+ grab with momentum physics are bleaaargh.

There's also nothing really wrong with true ATs like true pivots. If anything B+ needs more such ATs that separate the men from the boys.

I forgot about those 3 actually. LOL.

More power to the grabs then. <3

And yes, True ATs please.

That and dashing backwards out of a crouch.

 

[JCaesar]

I retract what I said about true pivots. I'm not afraid to admit when I was wrong.

I was also unaware about the JC+ grab momentum stuff, that's pretty interesting. In that case...

Initially I wanted 4 grabs.

You've got your normal standing, and your normal dash.

Then your DC Grab and your JC+ grab.

JC+ would simply be a (imo) more balanced and less centralizing version of Melee JC grabs, but the catch is if you miss, you suffer additional wind down, not as much as a dash though. That way, JC grabs would be brough back but wouldnt be the best grab a huge majority of the time. The only thing it would do is make dash grabs less useful, but if we use'd JC's idea of giving dash grabs a longer grab window, while still having the most end lag out of all the grabs, we'd have a **** grab selection for the whole roster.

I support this now. It's cool that all the different grabs have tradeoffs, and strengths and weaknesses. I was worried that we were gonna fall into Melee syndrome where JC grabs were basically the best option in every situation. If we find a way to make running grabs not useless, that would be awesome.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Not every running grab has MK's distance, sadly...

 

[GHNeko]

Why does MK slide so far when he connects a running grab anyway?

That's half of the reason why Dthrow is so good.

 

[Revven]

Why does MK slide so far when he connects a running grab anyway?

That's half of the reason why Dthrow is so good.

His friction, it's redank.