Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[Shadic]

just stop crying

i do not need to give you ideas, other ppl have given theirs and im content with waht they have said
it would be stupid to repeat whats already been stated before.

i do not need to argue for my posts beacuse others have had similar ideas as me and supported them clearly

example: look back and reread plum's essay

dont look to me for the knowlege of every aspect and how to defend it and how to shoot down your idea

i dont know everything there is to know about everything you want
and i dont know why you think it will help to target me

Also known as: "Wah wah wah."

Look, you're being a jerk who can hardly back up anything you say, and you clearly have no idea of proper message board etiquette is. If you're arguing something, you SHOULD know everything related to it, otherwise you appear more clueless than you actually are. Stop insulting people, be civil, at least ACT intelligent, contribute, or gtfo.

Anyways, onto Metaknight. I'd approve of Shuttle-Loop doing set, upwards KB. It could even add something to his metagame if we were to make it into something you can combo FROM, but only if you hit with it towards the end. (Hitting people behind you.) I also think that his UAir should be slowed down a bit, maybe with a bit less KBG... I'd have to look into that more.

Also:

I actually use MK as a secondary kthx.

Everybody does, it's called "Wanting to win."

 

[weinzey]

dont feed the troll, i guess.

next topic?

i suggest we talk about sheik's fair change. how's the testing going? (cant test myself since i use pal...)

 

[FrozenHobo]

k, guess you won then. good job the, Mch. you really showed me.

 

[GHNeko]

Everybody does, it's called "Wanting to win."

You dont need to pick up MK in B+ though.

YOu pick up a main, and then you're advised to pick up a secondary to cover your main's weaknesses. MK is no longer a "requirement".

I main Marth and Mario, and their glaring and abusable weaknesses are their recoveries, so I picked up MK, Jiggs, and D3 to cover that, but mainly MK.

I LIKE MK. I have since kirby way back when. I just dont like Brawl MK. :V

Also, random thought. For ****s and giggles but for Bowser, we should give his Side B 2 hitboxes. One on the inside of the move that leads into his normal Side B, and one on the outside that acts like a normal grab.

iz dat win or wut.

 

[FrozenHobo]

You dont need to pick up MK in B+ though.

YOu pick up a main, and then you're advised to pick up a secondary to cover your main's weaknesses. MK is no longer a "requirement".

I main Marth and Mario, and their glaring and abusable weaknesses are their recoveries, so I picked up MK, Jiggs, and D3 to cover that, but mainly MK.

I LIKE MK. I have since kirby way back when. I just dont like Brawl MK. :V

Also, random thought. For ****s and giggles but for Bowser, we should give his Side B 2 hitboxes. One on the inside of the move that leads into his normal Side B, and one on the outside that acts like a normal grab.

iz dat win or wut.

like his melee side b, only having the grab lead to his brawl side b? win

 

[Shadic]

You dont need to pick up MK in B+ though.

YOu pick up a main, and then you're advised to pick up a secondary to cover your main's weaknesses. MK is no longer a "requirement".

Yeah, but if you pick a character with a lot of bad matchups picking MK basically nullifies all worries.

Also, random thought. For ****s and giggles but for Bowser, we should give his Side B 2 hitboxes. One on the inside of the move that leads into his normal Side B, and one on the outside that acts like a normal grab.iz dat win or wut.

Wouldn't that be adding a new move? I think that's more of a change than a hitbox on Lucas' Nair.

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

Look, you're being a jerk who can hardly back up anything you say, and you clearly have no idea of proper message board etiquette is. If you're arguing something, you SHOULD know everything related to it, otherwise you appear more clueless than you actually are. Stop insulting people, be civil, at least ACT intelligent, contribute, or gtfo.

you dont need to back up your opinion to have your thoughts even concidered
example:
ppl who vote in the "banning mk" polls dont all have the biggest knowlage of him
some of them are *******s too
but the system doesnt care about that, their opinion is counted just as much as anyone elses
thank you to all the nice people who care what others have to say even if they dont bring a report on why

you arent one of them obviously

you have done an excellent job in moving this discussion along and closer to a comprimise and i thank you for doing so

k, guess you won then. good job the, Mch. you really showed me.

its not that i showed you, i didnt, and couldnt
its that you just werent able to show me...and anyone?



now ppl should really shut up about mk
let it ride for a bit before we take big measures

 

[GHNeko]

Yeah, but if you pick a character with a lot of bad matchups picking MK basically nullifies all worries.


Wouldn't that be adding a new move? I think that's more of a change than a hitbox on Lucas' Nair.

True. :V

But still, there is less reason to use MK now. The proof is in how little MK- users there are in B+.

And I did say for ****s and giggles, not for official B+ stuff. :V

 

[Revven]

I actually tested a Dthrow with a 65 degree angle + shanus's KB changes and MK could still follow up from it (Fair or Uair) even with DI'ing away from the throw. So... yeah... umm... I'm gonna keep experimenting I guess? (The only thing I didn't try was jumping out of it... ****).

 

[Strong Badam]

there aren't many mk users cuz everyone hates mk
most mk users are still playing vBrawl

falco: is there some sort of problem with MK being able to follow up after a throw? like, every character can do it.

 

[GHNeko]

I actually tested a Dthrow with a 65 degree angle + shanus's KB changes and MK could still follow up from it (Fair or Uair) even with DI'ing away from the throw. So... yeah... umm... I'm gonna keep experimenting I guess?

Jesus Sakurai, kid.

Give him Ike's Dthrow already. Just tack on some extra endlag (3 frames - 5) and increase the BKB.

<_>

 

[camelot]

I actually tested a Dthrow with a 65 degree angle + shanus's KB changes and MK could still follow up from it (Fair or Uair) even with DI'ing away from the throw. So... yeah... umm... I'm gonna keep experimenting I guess? (The only thing I didn't try was jumping out of it... ****).

Maybe you could screw around with the end lag on d-throw?

things

Please stop posting.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

He's just trying to change it so metaknight's down throw isn't such a good techchaser. he did that successfully, but it then got people off the stage, ready for gimps, too soon.

So he's trying to get it so it both

1: doesn't techchase as well
2.doesn't set up for supergimps.

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

Please stop posting.

yes mom. sorry mom.

 

[stingers]

give MK falco's dthrow from melee! gahhhhhhhhhh

 

[SymphonicSage12]

>.> Is this seriously what this thread is allowing these days? Shanus needs to put some tighter rules on this thread.

 

[GHNeko]

Maybe you could screw around with the end lag on d-throw?

He's just trying to change it so metaknight's down throw isn't such a good techchaser. he did that successfully, but it then got people off the stage, ready for gimps, too soon.

So he's trying to get it so it both

1: doesn't techchase as well
2.doesn't set up for supergimps.

Jesus Sakurai, kid.

Give him Ike's Dthrow already. Just tack on some extra endlag (3 frames - 5) and increase the BKB.

<_>

Reposting for great justice as this is the answer to MK dthrow.

 

[FrozenHobo]

its not that i showed you, i didnt, and couldnt
its that you just werent able to show me...and anyone?



now ppl should really shut up about mk
let it ride for a bit before we take big measures

ok, see, i was willing to just let this go and let you look like a ****, but you just HAD to keep it going. but GOD FORBID someone else make you look bad. no, no, lets all just praise your vast intellect and your amazing argumentative skills and superior vocabulary skill so that YOU don't wind up looking bad. i mean, if i didn't convince you then, dear god, i just wasted my time. because if YOU don't agree with me then NOBODY must agree with me. am i right? please say yes, because i'm afraid i would suffer a stroke if you disagreed with me again.


i was stating arguments other people had previously made, ergo, other people were of the same opinion. just because you think the best character in either game needs to stay that way doesn't mean other people won't disagree.

edit: but you what? even if you do respond, i won't. have fun.

 

[Shadic]

>.> Is this seriously what this thread is allowing these days? Shanus needs to put some tighter rules on this thread.

And you're helping how? If you're not going to contribute, gtfo. It should be simple. Follow what you want others to do.

Can't we just give MK more lag at the end of his throw, so he can't attack people out of it so easily?

Edit: Apparently Camelot posted the same idea. Hah.

 

[GHNeko]

People need to start refreshing the page before they post. <_>

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

uhhh idk waht to say,
shush popo : o
i say cahnge the dthrow throw
and whats the next big issue after dthrow and how do we fix it?

 

[Shadic]

i say cahnge the dthrow throw

Here's a tip. Don't just say you want something changed, say HOW.

You haven't contributed ANYTHING here.

 

[GHNeko]

You know. I realized, if a majority of MK's moves had higher anges rather than low, horizontal ones, his gimping ability would be nothing short of mediocre, at best, really good.

 

[kr3wman]

Make it so that you can DI it backwards and making the only attack guaranteed to hit bair.

that way you can mix it up and the MK has to work for it.

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

Here's a tip. Don't just say you want something changed, say HOW.

You haven't contributed ANYTHING here.

stop yelling, ur post there was jsut as useless as mine
and contributed just as much as mine did
im not arguing anymore and you should be happy
now lets smile

when is said to change the downthrow i was implying to try out everyone's ideas till everyone could agree on one set change

someone should be testing out these things?
its hard to argue for somthing that hasnt been done yet

 

[SymphonicSage12]

I agree with making it like Ike's. Just make sure it doesn't easily lead into uairs.

But make it so it can still gimp fairly well, I mean that's what the throw's there for.


and wouldn't making it an upward angle make it so techchasing is impossible, instead of hard?

 

[PKNintendo]

MK refuses to be nerfed lol.

 

[WheelOfFish]

I think we should start by deciding on a definite strength and a definite weakness for MK and then give him an overhaul.

 

[camelot]

I think we should start by deciding on a definite strength and a definite weakness for MK and then give him an overhaul.

Strength: Everything
Weakness: Nothing

God **** Sakurai.


In all seriousness, I think his weakness at least should be difficulty killing. But what's his strength? Insane recovery? Gimping power? Crazy speed + range? Transcending priority? (He already has all of those)

 

[SymphonicSage12]

I'd say his best attribute is his gimping power, and his worse is his aerial mobility.

 

[Mattnumbers]

I think we should remove his Transcendant priority. His attacks are fast and have good range so them also having TP is one of his most broken characteristics. I also don't feel that it is as much a part of his character as his gimps and recovery. The only problem is this makes him better against projectiles, but I still feel that this would be a good step in the right direction to balancing him.

 

[GHNeko]

Big text time.


Removing TP would give MK the ability to CLANK. It is a nerf to one area, and a buff to another. It is a double-edged sword.

 

[CountKaiser]

A code that could change clanking rules would be nice.

Instead of moves 10% of each other clanking, moves 5% or less of each other could clank.

Be interesting, nonetheless.

 

[GHNeko]

He could still clank, and most of his aerials are would then beat out projectiles. <_>

 

[CountKaiser]

He would clank with much less moves. We could easily edit the range to the point where people can power through clanks much more often.

And put in air clanking already. :V

Also, where is this sexy new AT that you were talking about? V:

 

[GHNeko]

Not working all the way, according to Shanus.

And he might clank with less moves, but I'm pretty sure he's start beating out projectiles easier. <_>

 

[CountKaiser]

Hmmm

Raise the angle on all of his moves? You suggested this, and I'd like to see where this would lead.

Also, make some hitboxes smaller.

Ans what will this sexy new AT allow?

 

[Dark Sonic]

He could still clank, and most of his aerials are would then beat out projectiles. <_>

hint, let his aerials keep the transcendant priority. This means his aerials would still not beat projectiles. Aerials don't clank anyway, so there's no actual benefit from an aerial having transcendant priority. Aerials benefit purely from their disjointedness.

His ground moves do mediocre damage and although would beat most projectiles, they'd still lose to some of the higher damage ones I guess. But I'd rather be able to just go through his ground moves with my own instead of getting beat in disjointedness.

And I agree that the clanking window for attacks is unnaturally large. A smash attack being clanked by a tilt just seems kinda odd to me.

 

[GHNeko]

remove TP on grounded moves then?

What grounded moves are good at clanking and which ones arent?

@Count: Its an AT for the grab metagame.

 

[CountKaiser]

MK's moves are safe, fast, and can combo well. Along with gimping maneuvers, he's dangerous.

Make his moves much less safe, so that he has to commit more to something.

Remove TP from ground attacks, put slightly more lag on them, make hitboxes smaller, and edit the angle of dair.

Also, make him lighter and increase his gravity. Makes him easier to kill as well as easier to combo.

EDIT: Will this AT make G&W's grab useful? *is obviously delusional*