Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[timothyung]

Yea, that was mostly posted as a joke. I just wanted to see the outcome.

Just use the Generalized Super Code to see the outcome

 

[XSilvenX]

I don't know why this is, but recently the fact that running tether grabs slide so much has been bothering me to an extreme degree.

i constantly slide past my opponent, and the slide looks unnatural. Is this intended or is a friction change incoming?

Get better

 

[Plaid02]

I have a question about stages. Why aren't more of them frozen? I had a really old codeset from somewhere that had more stages frozen including Norfair, which I really liked. Just wondering if there's a reason, and if not, I'd like to recommend more stages be frozen.

 

[5ive]

I can't believe we are even considering the return of the mansion. Bringing back the mansion does nothing but revives a gimmicky element which has no place in Brawl+, nor any competitive set. Luigi's mansion itself is not viable enough to be regarded as a counter pick, which is why it is placed under the banned/counter-pick area in the rule set.

In Brawl+, where the main goal is to revamp the competitiveness of Brawl, bringing back or even promoting any aspect of the mansion really goes against our main purpose; especially at the loss of viable neutral (Deadlands).

I think the WBR should rethink the removal of Deadlands, and rethink the idea of bringing back Luigi's Mansion's original elements. If anything, I would give the option to choose from Deadlands and Luigi's Mansion via a button press or seperate icon.

 

[DaiAndOh]

I can't believe we are even considering the return of the mansion. Bringing back the mansion does nothing but revives a gimmicky element which has no place in Brawl+, nor any competitive set. Luigi's mansion itself is not viable enough to be regarded as a counter pick, which is why it is placed under the banned/counter-pick area in the rule set.

In Brawl+, where the main goal is to revamp the competitiveness of Brawl, bringing back or even promoting any aspect of the mansion really goes against our main purpose; especially at the loss of viable neutral (Deadlands).

I think the WBR should rethink the removal of Deadlands, and rethink the idea of bringing back Luigi's Mansion's original elements. If anything, I would give the option to choose from Deadlands and Luigi's Mansion via a button press or seperate icon.

I agree completely, it was kind of like a version of Dream Land 64 to a certain extent. I don't even know who even likes the mansion part to begin with, or why they would. Bigger annoyance then the sandbag imo.

 

[GHNeko]

Deadland isn't gone. IT comes back for 2-3 mins.

Dont think of it as deadlands being going, but luigi's mansion being gone for 2-3 mins. :V

 

[FrozenHobo]

So people have been complaining about the new custom Stage Selection Screen (SSS), so I took a little time to come up with one.

I grouped them vertically by game franchise, and put the neutrals at the bottom of the screen (so it's closer to where the cursor is when you first enter the SSS). Then, as you go up on the page, the stage gets progressively more "non-neutral-like" (can't think of a better word at this moment). There may be some cases when Stage A is higher on the page than Stage B, but Stage A is more neutral than Stage B, but that's because I also grouped them by franchise, with the more neutral stage of each franchise taking location priority.
Also, I actually don't have the code for this (I'm not sure how the code works, so I'm not going to attempt editing the code myself). It's just a quick image edit that I did. Tell me what you think of it, and if enough people like it, maybe someone that knows the coding will put it together...

So without further ado:

1) do you have the code for that?
2) what do you have WR set to on random?
3) would it be possible to:
a) have all of the neutrals on the melee screen
b) have all of the CPs on the brawl screen (**** banned stages)
c) have the stage select go directly to the melee/neutrals screen

edit: just read you don't actually have the code....

 

[The_Guide]

The Wifi Waiting Room will glitch out 50% of the time, and the camera will zoom in to the middle all the way. It also has invisible walls on the sides, and when you are struck you sort of slide around the edge of the screen. You can die up, but only at like 200%. I don't know why this happens, or to what it correlates.

This "glitch" you speak of is the selection of the practice stage. Not the wifi one, but the one where you test out your character after setting up a new control scheme. Both stages use the "menu" selection icon, so if you acivate that icon in random stage select, you will get practice room instead of wifi occasionally.

Could the WBRers please remove the practice stage from the sss in the next nightly? As Proteininja said, its a horrible stage to play on, and could not be used in a competitive setting.

 

[Plum]

I was really intrigued by BBrawl's codes to hold such and such button to get this level set up (spear pillar). It'd be nifty to get a similar code to make the part of Port Town with three platforms selectable, or the cavern in the castle level selectable, or Luigi's Mansion with or without Mansion etc.

I would love to see what is possible with those codes as well.

I understand that coders are few and far between, and they have their plates full already, but if we could tie the changes to a stage to the specific button held down while selecting it then everyone's problem would be solved.

I personally love Luigi's Mansion as a counterpick, while at the same time I've grown attached to Deadlands.

While I do think the Mansion should take even longer to respawn, I also don't want to CP the Mansion only to have it be down for a majority of the match, as a 2-3 minute respawn would do.
Until it would be possible to have each stage selectable though, I think this would be the best route to go to satisfy both parties.

It would also allow people to select the WiFi waiting room without the sandbag. I personally love the sandbag as it makes it a unique CP with a new strategic element in play, but people are going to ***** about the sandbag until the end of time if it's there.

Also, in regards to that SSS, I would add Big Blue to the front page. I don't know what you would opp to remove, but I would go for Shadow Mosses personally; it should reflect competitively viable stages and as much as I love the stage there is just no way that's a viable stage. With the slowed down track Big Blue is definitely a viable CP, with every character actually able to recover from the track. I do like having the neutrals grouped at the bottom, close to where the icon is.

 

[timothyung]

This "glitch" you speak of is the selection of the practice stage. Not the wifi one, but the one where you test out your character after setting up a new control scheme. Both stages use the "menu" selection icon, so if you acivate that icon in random stage select, you will get practice room instead of wifi occasionally.

Could the WBRers please remove the practice stage from the sss in the next nightly? As Proteininja said, its a horrible stage to play on, and could not be used in a competitive setting.

I would like to include that stage, or even all the playable weird stages for lolz, namely break the targets, resting room, controlconfig, and homerun contest. The Wifi Stage would be a CP right? Then that's not a problem because it wouldn't be selected randomly. You shouldn't be going to the second page when you are playing competitively anyway.

 

[ZeonStar]

I personally hate the wifi waiting room because of the strange and wonky camera that the stage has.

 

[GHNeko]

The camera doesnt bother me that much with Brawl's default camera.

I really want to play this build. ;__;

 

[timothyung]

Why can't you play this build Neko?
BTW about the hitlag, we might try 50% +2-3 frames. That way it will make multi-hit attacks not as powerful but longer hitlag attacks doesn't get too long hitlag.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

That looks cool...and btw, the Brawl one has 31 stages

I'm aware of that. But he just said that my SSS looked less crowded than the current Brawl+'s SSS, but both has 34 stages on it, so I was just pointing that fact out.

Also, what are your thoguhts to making mansion respawn after a few minutes instead of 20-40 seconds?

I would think 2-3 minutes would be about right.

While I do think the Mansion should take even longer to respawn, I also don't want to CP the Mansion only to have it be down for a majority of the match, as a 2-3 minute respawn would do.

Yeah, I don't think it should be as long as 2-3 minutes. A match usually doesn't last longer than 4 minutes on Deadlands, so setting it that high would mean that the mansion will likely be gone for the majority of the match. (In which case, it makes it pretty pointless to counterpick Luigi's MANSION.) I think 1 minute of respawn time (i.e. 1/3 speed) would be a good balance.
But if a code that allows holding certain buttons to trigger Deadlands/Mansion is created, that would be even more ideal.

Also, as for the SSS. It'll be tricky to have a universal Brawl+ SSS, considering that there isn't really a set list of Neutral/Counterpick/Ban stage. Some stages are even on the borderline section, as well. So with that, only stages that are pretty much regarded as "guaranteed banned" stages should be on the "Melee" section, sort of how it is right now. But I think Big Blue, for the moment, should be moved to the main section. And perhaps move Hanenbow to the "Melee" section? In that case, Bridge of Eldin should be moved to where Hanenbow was, Big Blue can take the old spot of Bridge of Eldin, and Pirate Ship & Skyworld would switch places.

Also, I'm having a problem where I'm randoming both of the "menu" stages and 75m, even though I have those set to "off" in the Random Stage Select.

 

[FrozenHobo]

but why even have banned stages? why not just take them out all together and only have neutral and CPs?

 

[timothyung]

I'm aware of that. But he just said that my SSS looked less crowded than the current Brawl+'s SSS, but both has 34 stages on it, so I was just pointing that fact out.

Just an illusion for me... maybe it's the difference between my computer and my TV

but why even have banned stages? why not just take them out all together and only have neutral and CPs?

There are people who want to play in the banned stages, also neutral and CPs fits in the first page. There are space left, why not leave them there. BTW you can put 40 stages at most on the first page and 41 stages on the second page, so the first page is not full yet.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

Well, the problem is that stages supposedly in the "counterpick/ban" section on the suggested stage list (which I don't think there is an "official" one for Brawl+ at this moment) could be banned in one tournament and counterpick-able in another, so it's safer to leave them on the main page. Only stages that are for sure to be banned in all respected tournaments should go in the "Melee" page. And with my current layout idea, it doesn't hurt that much to include some of the more "gimmicky" stages on the top of the page, since you can just ignore those near the top if you choose.

 

[FrozenHobo]

does shadow mosses count as a cp? hell, if hanenbow can be used in tourneys then just about anything can...

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

if you guys posibly made onnet viable, id love you. always loved this stage
also: frozenpopo, does your name mean frozen police?

 

[WheelOfFish]

Shadow Moses and Onett will never be viable because they are missing blast lines.

Shadow Moses has only one blast line. If the walls are down, it has horizontal blast lines, but it's still lacking the bottom.

Onett is missing the bottom blast line and has walls, allowing for infinites. Removing cars wouldn't make it viable unfortunately.

 

[FrozenHobo]

skip: it originally meant popo as in the lead climber, but it really doesn't matter. i've started going by froznpoop now, anyway.

 

[5ive]

By the way, the sandbag in the waiting room is an amazing idea. It turns the WR from being an amazing Falco/camp stage, into a CP that counters Falco and camping. Good job

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

Onett is missing the bottom blast line and has walls, allowing for infinites. Removing cars wouldn't make it viable unfortunately.

ah, i see. the cars are what makes it fun though. lol, guess ill just play it in friendlies

 

[Plum]

does shadow mosses count as a cp? hell, if hanenbow can be used in tourneys then just about anything can...

Hanenbow is considered a viable counterpick in doubles, though it would depend on the tournament.

I've never seen it used in a tourney (as in actually selected) but I have seen it on CP lists.

IIRC the stage was banned from singles because of how it promoted circle camping on all the platforms, and doubles removes that.

I don't know why people would play there, but I have seen tournies put it on the doubles list.

Starter
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Yoshi's Island

Starter/Counter
Castle Siege
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Pokémon Stadium 1

Counter
Brinstar
Delfino (moved from S/C)
Frigate Orpheon
Jungle Japes
Pictochat
Pirate Ship
Pokémon Stadium 2
Rainbow Cruise

Counter/Banned
Distant Planet (moved from C)
Green Greens
Luigi's Mansion (moved from C)
Port Town Aero Dive
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) (moved from C)
Norfair (moved from C)

Banned
75m
Big Blue
Bridge of Eldin
Corneria (moved from C)
Flat Zone 2
Green Hill Zone (moved from C)
Hanenbow
Hyrule Temple
Mario Bros.
Mario Circuit (moved from C/B)
Mushroomy Kingdom I
Mushroomy Kingdom II
New Pork City
Onett (moved from C/B)
Rumble Falls
Shadow Moses
Skyworld (moved from C/B)
Spear Pillar
The Summit
Wario Ware

Additional Rules for Doubles Play

* Life Stealing is allowed

* Set team attack to ON

* Hanenbow may be moved from Ban to Counterpick for Doubles

That's the current recommended stage list from vBrawl.
Obviously changes would be in Wario Ware and Pokemon Stadium 2 going to neutral from their positions in vBrawl.

From there, Mushroomy Kingdom 1-1 could safely be a counterpick for the exact reasons of Rainbow Cruise; it just prefers characters who like their feet on the ground compared to the aerial based play of Cruise.
Big Blue is also another CP stage with it slowed down, as the biggest issue was how quickly the roadway would KO any character who touched it.
I would move Green Hill Zone to a CP/Banned stage simply because of how much less problematic walk offs are without having to worry about CG's into instant kills on them. Though the stage does have some aspects that I can see why people wouldn't allow the stage at their tournament.
Same would go for Mario Circuit, definitely not bad when walkoffs aren't a serious issue anymore.
I would also move Corneria to a CP/Banned. The wall isn't a big deal anymore and the hazards are clear enough to not pose a serious issue (imo), though the layout can promote fin camping, and approach options are significantly impacted when players are forced to drop down from above to hit an opponent waiting down below.
I can see Bridge of Eldin being a viable CP in doubles, much in the same way Hanenbow is. The serious problems in singles aren't nearly as prevalent when four people are on the stage at the same time.

I do think that the SSS makes this a great time to really kick up serious stage discussion

 

[GHNeko]

Shadow Moses and Onett will never be viable because they are missing blast lines.

Shadow Moses has only one blast line. If the walls are down, it has horizontal blast lines, but it's still lacking the bottom.

Onett is missing the bottom blast line and has walls, allowing for infinites. Removing cars wouldn't make it viable unfortunately.

lolwut.

So what if they're missing a blast line? The removal of a single blast line shouldn't automatically remove a stage from being viable in a tourney.

:/

 

[Swordplay]

For LM, I'm trying to take into consideration that people may use stalling tactics until the mansion returns as part of their strategy.

Thats why I think 1/4th speed is better.

anything around the 1:20-1:30 mark

=============================

Edit:

I love 60% hitlag.........

Also, my prior Yoshi analysis was very poor, I am sorry. Blame my stupid melee yoshi johns......

 

[KayJay]

About the new nightly:
50% Hitlag was fine IMO, i don't like the 60% hitlag.
And i liked Luigis Mansion better without the castle.
But the other stuff is awesome.

 

[MK26]

About the new nightly:
50% Hitlag was fine IMO, i don't like the 60% hitlag.
And i liked Luigis Mansion better without the castle.
But the other stuff is awesome.

60% hitlag is 1 more frame. That's 1/60th of a second per hit. You shouldnt even be able to see that with the naked eye.

 

[metaXzero]

Help?

Everytime I try and download the new Nightly, I get a codeset unlike what is being discussed. Ness has no PSI magnet changes, LM is still Deadlands, and I can't select Wifi Practice stage no matter what.

 

[shanus]

60% hitlag is 1 more frame. That's 1/60th of a second per hit. You shouldnt even be able to see that with the naked eye.

Its pretty apparent on moves like Sonics upsmash. However, 50% hitlag causes issues like the falco bthrow stick bug, and also makes a ton of moves have ridiculously small windows for SDI.

 

[MK26]

Its pretty apparent on moves like Sonics upsmash. However, 50% hitlag causes issues like the falco bthrow stick bug, and also makes a ton of moves have ridiculously small windows for SDI.

Well obviously it should be somewhat apparent with mulithit moves. I forgot about that :/

I do think that the SSS makes this a great time to really kick up serious stage discussion

Yehs. I present Maestro's Stage List v0.01

Starter
Battlefield
Final Destination
Lylat Cruise
Pokémon Stadium 2 (Reversed)
Smashville
WarioWare (Reversed)
Yoshi's Island Brawl

Counter
Big Blue (2/3 speed)
Brinstar
Castle Siege
Corneria
Delfino
Frigate Orpheon
Green Greens (2/3 speed)
Halberd
Jungle Japes
Luigi's Mansion (1/2 speed)
Mushroomy Kingdom (1/2 Speed)
Norfair
Pictochat (2/3 speed)
Pokémon Stadium 1
Rainbow Cruise
Wifi Waiting Room

Banned
75m
Bridge of Eldin
**Distant Planet
Flat Zone 2
*Green Hill Zone
*Hanenbow
Hyrule Temple
Mario Bros.
**Mario Circuit
Mushroomy Kingdom II
New Pork City
**Onett
*Pirate Ship
Port Town Aero Dive
Rumble Falls
Shadow Moses Island
Skyworld
Spear Pillar
Summit
**Yoshi's Island Melee

The stars denote stages that i think have at least a slight chance (**) or a very slim chance (*) of being seen as cp, but I would put them all as banned. Discuss.

 

[Mattnumbers]

I still think Zap-Zumping should be unique to Lucas. Also did the WBR take note of my idea to change Lucas's Psi Magnet so that it's better for attacking but worse for actual healing. That would make it even more different than Ness's, which is now really good for healing.

Also I support having the mansion down for.......I would say 2 minutes.

 

[Deleted member]

ok people, just saying this once.

the issues we had with BBrawl are now solved. moderation on flaming posts to either project will become more strict, so you have been warned.

 

[metaXzero]

Help?

Everytime I try and download the new Nightly, I get a codeset unlike what is being discussed. Ness has no PSI magnet changes, LM is still Deadlands, and I can't select Wifi Practice stage no matter what.

Just reposting. I tried making a GCT from the TXT file and I got the same result as before.

 

[CloneHat]

Just reposting. I tried making a GCT from the TXT file and I got the same result as before.

Same thing here. It also didn't work when I tried to use the snapshot.

 

[FrozenHobo]

so, how do i edit the SSS code to make my own? what variables do i need to change to do what? explanation please.

edit: i made a build from the txt and it works fine. <333 no sandbag

 

[Shell]

Matt, I think it would take a special code to alter Magnet's healing properties, which isn't a very high priority right now.

Increasing the size of the Magnet hitbox and possibly the hitbox duration is easy enough, but it would require a different trade-off.

 

[_clinton]

Leave Lucas' Magnet alone unless you make the hitbox from the shock bigger...also have you guys thought about giving Lucas' PKT2 the same size buff that you gave Ness' PKT2? Because why should Ness' PKT2 be the only one that doesn't crash into the stage...
I'd like to be able to use Lucas' PKT2 close to the stage as well if I wanted to...Rope Snake isn't perfect...even if it is the best character from Mother 3...because he is badass

Also...again on Ness being unable to stall his fall with magnet and I still think that should be fixed (although I love being able to "dodge roll" from the air when I hit the ground) also there is another issue with it...if you actually do absorb something from the air your stun time is for 4 beeps instead of the normal 2...Ness can get gimped from using his magnet in the air!

Still don't give a **** about the bat power up...although I like the idea of making the PING sound tipper only (so you know that you hit with it....sort of like you know you hit with Marth's tip if you know what I mean)

 

[Mattnumbers]

I'll bring it up on the Lucas thread and see what people think we could trade off. Is it possible to change the range of absorption?

 

[Shell]

Not sure if it's a hitbox like others. Trade-offs don't have to be on the same move, though.