Brawl Information Compendium & Social

[Pikabunz]

I'm pretty sure it's 3 frames for Brawl.

 

[Zankoku]

3 in Brawl, 6 in Melee iirc

Melee's powershield window "feels" more difficult due to any level of shield below full shield not counting, and having a chance of absorbing the attack before you press the trigger down all the way.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

You mean the window to be able to powershield?

1 frame for Melee/PM; 4 frames for Brawl.

Relfex pls, it's 3 frames in Brawl

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I swear, I've heard 4 for forever. I was pretty confident.

 

[da K.I.D.]

ankoku. What youre saying makes sense but even with that, it doesnt seem feasible to me that the powershielding window in melee being 2 times as lenient as brawl.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

The mechanics to PS something in Melee make it more difficult for the PS to be an actual PS rather than a regular shield. In Brawl anything that hits the shield during the first three frames is a PS.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I assume you are refering to the light shielding aspect of the game.

But that being said does that mean its possible to hold a light shield and then powershield by condensing the shield from light to regular in the proper time period?

 

[smashkng]

Armada told me a trick you can use in Melee in order to make the shield input like in Brawl. If you hold R or L when you plug the controller into the controller port you can no longer light shield, but it'll be easier to PS because you'll have to press the entire trigger in order to shield. And if you want to light shield you can use the other shield button anyway, which you weren't holding during the plug in.

 

[-LzR-]

Armada told me a trick you can use in Melee in order to make the shield input like in Brawl. If you hold R or L when you plug the controller into the controller port you can no longer light shield, but it'll be easier to PS because you'll have to press the entire trigger in order to shield. And if you want to light shield you can use the other shield button anyway, which you weren't holding during the plug in.

But is this considered cheating?

Oh and I had always thought the powershielding window for Brawl was 7 frames and 1 frame for Melee. Can anyone really give some solid proof so we don't just throw numbers around?

 

[smashkng]

Yeah it's cheating
JK

About PSing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2n5ctsH1DI&feature=plcp

Apparently the PS window is exactly 3 frames.

 

[Armada]

It's not cheating (most rules doesn't say anything about it at least).

I don't use it anyway but it is for sure something that is really good to use.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Do you hold the Shield button all the way down when resetting the controller, or right below "maximum pressure?"

 

[Zankoku]

I assume you are refering to the light shielding aspect of the game.

But that being said does that mean its possible to hold a light shield and then powershield by condensing the shield from light to regular in the proper time period?

It's a 4 frame window from the time ANY shield input is detected, so no, you can't just Shield Toggle your way to victory (though you CAN Shield Toggle for style points).

Also, my bad, I just found this thread:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=297697
Melee's window is 1-2 for powershield+reflect, 1-4 for non-projectile powershields.

Do you hold the Shield button all the way down when resetting the controller, or right below "maximum pressure?"

I believe it doesn't matter because it's only analog for the gradual press-down, while the final press is a button.

 

[Bobwithlobsters]

I have a question about momentum canceling. Does inputting a jump while trying to survive an attack actually help you survive a horizontal hit? The more I think about it the more I bet that jumping is completely separate from horizontal momentum. I understand that you are trying to reach the top corner to maximize your survival, but I suspect that jumping doesn't actually help. Jumping and fastfalling are purely y-axis and do not interact with the x-axis, is this a reasonable assertion?

 

[C.J.]

Think geometry. If you jump, you get closer to the hypotenuse. This means that you are along the trajectory that will take you the longest time to reach the blastzone.

 

[infiniteV115]

It's not only jumping, but jumping + drifting (aerial movement) towards the stage that counteracts the momentum.

 

[C.J.]

^^That too

 

[Bobwithlobsters]

Think geometry. If you jump, you get closer to the hypotenuse. This means that you are along the trajectory that will take you the longest time to reach the blastzone.

It would only get you closer to the hypotenuse if jumping changes your angle or gives horizontal momentum. If jumping only gives vertical lift it doesn't change your trajectory only moves the whole system up. Keeping you the same distance from the horizontal blast zone and only moving you closer to the top blast zone.

 

[allshort17]

Think geometry. If you jump, you get closer to the hypotenuse. This means that you are along the trajectory that will take you the longest time to reach the blastzone.

What about if it's something weird like Wolf's Dthrow/Dsmash that sends an opponent at a near horizontal angle or I just DI poorly and I fly slightly below horizontal? Wouldn't jumping bring me closer to the shortest possible route to the blastzone? Should I try to fastfall instead or would there be a better way to approach the situation?

 

[infiniteV115]

I'm fairly certain jumping changes the angle, and that it isn't solely a vertical boost.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

What about if it's something weird like Wolf's Dthrow/Dsmash that sends an opponent at a near horizontal angle or I just DI poorly and I fly slightly below horizontal? Wouldn't jumping bring me closer to the shortest possible route to the blastzone? Should I try to fastfall instead or would there be a better way to approach the situation?

Fastfall and try to make it to the corner provided you can still recover.

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

Who needs to DI a wolf dthrow to survive? lol

 

[da K.I.D.]

jumping also negates some of the knockback and restores you to 100% character controlled drifting faster.

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

How many frames does it take to run off of a ledge? Say a platform or the stage itself. Like how many frames does the transition from grounded running to mid air falling animation.

 

[Undodgeable Smash Attack]

Sorry to break it to you, but telling us about a match between you and a computer doesn't help at all. I mean, even low-level tournament regulars can destroy lvl 9 computers, so telling us that you can do that doesn't let us know where you are on the spectrum of competitive brawl skill.

Telling us that you can't beat them/have a good deal of difficulty with them, however, will let us know that you're very bad. But you did well apparently.

Uh, your best bet would be to show us a replay of you playing another person. Wifi, your little brother, w/e.
(someone else that actually plays the game btw, not your pet dog or your father that has never touched the game in his life)

Computers won't help us.

I don't mean to sound mean but you know absolutely nothing about A.I. do you? A computer's skill isn't universal. In fact Brawl's A.I. is setup similar to DBZ Tenkaichi 3 where they eventually will choose to go complete r@pe-mode on you if you push them too far. Or is it that most people don't bother trying hard against a cpu in the first place?

 

[C.J.]

Undodgeable Smash Attack- You're just... wrong. There has been extensive testing done on AI in Brawl and everything has shown that the CPUs don't learn, that they don't get better, etc etc.

Brawl CPUs are terrible. No exceptions.

 

[Undodgeable Smash Attack]

Undodgeable Smash Attack- You're just... wrong. There has been extensive testing done on AI in Brawl and everything has shown that the CPUs don't learn, that they don't get better, etc etc.

Brawl CPUs are terrible. No exceptions.

Not extensive enough apparently. Plus you're talking to someone who went to school for video game programming, and knows people in the field, has put in at least 10,000 hours of brawl fighting time alone, and also doesn't have anyone to play with. Now obviously that last one at least shows that I know my A.I.

 

[SoulPech]

Not extensive enough apparently. Plus you're talking to someone who went to school for video game programming, and knows people in the field, has put in at least 10,000 hours of brawl fighting time alone, and also doesn't have anyone to play with. Now obviously that last one at least shows that I know my A.I.

woow.

Someone's trolling.

 

[BSP]

Idk, my CPU Falco actually re grabbed me out of a dthrow the other day

Odd

 

[Undodgeable Smash Attack]

woow.

Someone's trolling.

woow.

Someone knows everything about the game and no one can prove him wrong.

But seriously, a guy was just saying a few pages ago how angry he should be because core things are still not known about this game.

And regrabs? lol that's easy stuff. Most lvl 9s I fight can block or dodge at point blank reach and smash attack you through a PK fire.

 

[NickRiddle]

Even if CPUs can learn, they'll never get as good as mediocre tournament attendees.
No mind is a problem.

 

[SoulPech]

Not extensive enough apparently. Plus you're talking to someone who went to school for video game programming, and knows people in the field, has put in at least 10,000 hours of brawl fighting time alone, and also doesn't have anyone to play with. Now obviously that last one at least shows that I know my A.I.

woow.

Someone knows everything about the game and no one can prove him wrong.

You clearly are trolling. You can go to school for video game programming, have your own company, create your own video games, know people in the field but you can say you know everything from a game you never created. You say you've spent at least 10,000 hours (which in a larger scale, you would have played this game for an entire year straight in a 24 hour period...4 months for a 24 hour period in a 5 year duration more "sensical"), which is somewhat unlikely. Even then, I'm certain that there are players on SWF (CJ, Nick Riddle, etc.) that have put more hours into this game than you.Also, you didn't really prove your opinion on the AI part...all you said was

I don't mean to sound mean but you know absolutely nothing about A.I. do you? A computer's skill isn't universal. In fact Brawl's A.I. is setup similar to DBZ Tenkaichi 3 where they eventually will choose to go complete r@pe-mode on you if you push them too far.

. How do you know this? The AI made in this game goes in a linear pattern based on the level of difficulty. Granted, not all the computer players do the same thing, but it's still a pattern.

In my opinion, you're trolling.

Also, what Nick Riddle said.

 

[Undodgeable Smash Attack]

In other words you can't learn from target practice at a shooting range and you can't learn driving ethics from a simulator. Even if a cpu has no mind that doesn't mean it's worthless.

And I didn't read all that stuff because I feel it would just piss me off(skimmed) but I can see that I'm getting no where with you. Lastly I'll upload a video and be done with it as I post it here(this may take a week or so so don't look for me) then I won't come back to "troll" you again.

See ya.

 

[NickRiddle]

You can learn from things that have no minds if you are not trying to see normal reactions to things. CPU's don't get scared like humans do, and they don't mix-up the same way humans do.
If this game had set X beats Y in situation Z, it'd work. Since that is not the case, it doesn't work.

 

[da K.I.D.]

The ai in this game does learn and does cater toward the things the humans do on that particular wii.

But that doesnt mean you can gain anything from them in terms of learning how to be a high level tournament player

 

[C.J.]

Okay, I should have said learned anything remotely meaningful in order for the AI to get better in any way that makes them any difficult to beat under any circumstance.

It's just easier to say they don't learn.

 

[da K.I.D.]

But they dont.

They learn, but it doesnt change their difficulty. It just makes them do really rediculous thinga

 

[SoulPech]

In other words you can't learn from target practice at a shooting range and you can't learn driving ethics from a simulator. Even if a cpu has no mind that doesn't mean it's worthless.

And I didn't read all that stuff because I feel it would just piss me off(skimmed) but I can see that I'm getting no where with you. Lastly I'll upload a video and be done with it as I post it here(this may take a week or so so don't look for me) then I won't come back to "troll" you again.

See ya.

No need to put words in my mouth, and no need to get upset over a wall of text. The AI does learn somethings, like when you launch it in the air, it'll airdodge when you attack. When you attack it directly, it'll shield or it'll grab. This doesn't change the difficulty of the computer (because it was designed) and it's good to learn the basics, range, warmup, etc. The problem is that once you know the pattern the CPU doesn't change so signicantly that it'll just stuff you out. Take the Street Fighter series for example. The game is designed at a higher where as soon as you attack, the computer will counter attack most of the time. Same thing with the King of Fighter series. If you didn't read my stuff it's your own issue not mine.

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

The guys argument is "computers are good practice". Please stop getting trolled lol

 

[SoulPech]

I already knew he was trollin' though .