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-LzR-

Smash Hero
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Wow, that's really safe. Your reasons are very valid. The only thing is, as Marth, I usually make chaingrab reads off Up Throw, which I believe deals only 4 damage. Because of this low damage, I pummel more, but you are definitely right about the positional advantage. Marth loves to be below his opponents. Anyway, thanks for the fast answer.
As Marth you have one of the best options out of a grab release in case they get out. If they try to hit you, upB will get them. For a saver option you can do Dtilt or SideB. If the opponent expects this and shields Marth is able to regrab the opponent without moving because of his great grab range. I wouldn't get in that situation on purpose, but it's good to keep on mind, it's really effective.

For pummels, I would first grab the opponent at the beginning of the match and not throw him before he starts to mash. If he mashes very fast you can do the thing I mentioned with Marths release. If they barely mash you know you can get an additional pummel every time.
 

Jackson

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As Marth you have one of the best options out of a grab release in case they get out. If they try to hit you, upB will get them. For a saver option you can do Dtilt or SideB. If the opponent expects this and shields Marth is able to regrab the opponent without moving because of his great grab range. I wouldn't get in that situation on purpose, but it's good to keep on mind, it's really effective.

For pummels, I would first grab the opponent at the beginning of the match and not throw him before he starts to mash. If he mashes very fast you can do the thing I mentioned with Marths release. If they barely mash you know you can get an additional pummel every time.
Good advice. I didn't know Marths grab release was a decent option except on the PK kids.
 
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It really depends on your playstyle I guess. Leon often catches people with ground release --> run past them and pivot grab their spotdodge, but the reason it works so much is probably because Leon instills fear into people with his good movement and ridiculous followups, and he can also mix up his pressure really well. So when people get grab released by Leon they're more likely to spotdodge because of these things lol.

Though now that I think about it, Mikehaze used to get the same read a lot and his playstyle is drastically different, so maybe it is just a Marth thing XD
 

-LzR-

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I've never experienced anyone but Marths use the grab releases to their advantage on such level. I'm always scared when I mash out of Marths grabs as he still has the advantage in that situation.
 

SevenYearItch

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Thoughts on ignoring tier lists for tourny play (other than pocket chars)? Convo between myself and some friends on if its important to you to play a high tier character off principal or trying to win with whoever you want
 

teluoborg

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Play with whoever you want until you get the basics down.
Seriously unless you reach the higher levels of tournament placing (like doing top 8 at nationals) there's a lot of chance that it's not your character that limiting you.

Now with that said, it's true that lower tier character often require more work and practice on your part, since they are not as forgiving to play as MK. But imo that's a good thing to learn.
 

Jackson

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Ok, so we were having the B-reversal VS wavebouncing discussion earlier, and I understand what each of them are. What I still need to know, though, is how exactly do you input a wavebounce? What buttons would you press to do it?
 
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Shaya

   「chase you」 
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GRimer
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It really depends on your playstyle I guess. Leon often catches people with ground release --> run past them and pivot grab their spotdodge, but the reason it works so much is probably because Leon instills fear into people with his good movement and ridiculous followups, and he can also mix up his pressure really well. So when people get grab released by Leon they're more likely to spotdodge because of these things lol.

Though now that I think about it, Mikehaze used to get the same read a lot and his playstyle is drastically different, so maybe it is just a Marth thing XD
Marth's pivot grab is pretty massive, and although his full dash length is obnoxiously large, its still a pretty good dash in terms of speed. Pivot grabs an option out of a dash (and Marth loves them a lot) and it times nicely to people's spot dodges. Sliding + great pivot grab = that's why we do it. Also easy for people to badly DI fthrow from such escapades which can get you kills :D

Doing the same thing rarely feels worthwhile with MK (although sometimes I do when I'm thinking back throw off stage), but its tighter/harder (because his pivot grab is smaller). Other characters with good dashes have more preferable options (dash attack or nairs), and don't have the same size of pivot grab as Marth does (maybe not Squirtle).

So yeah, Marth and Squirtle thing.
 
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Jackson

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This may be a question only I can answer, but I wanted everyone's input. I believe the next step in improving my game is the psychological aspect: reading patterns, playing mind games, baiting and such. I can beat my friends consistently by simply picking the right options in most cases, but I don't think that will always work in tournaments. How can I incorporate these psychological aspects into my playstyle? Observing my foe more instead of just my character? I'd like to hear your opinions.
 

Luco

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Looking at an opponent's playstyle is always, even at low level play, really important. I remember always going better against people when i'd played them a few times (archmage beat me with his ICs the first time we played and he was very new to the scene back then) and it tends to be the case for most people, which is basically allowing a certain sense of 'okay the person should have these rough capabilities and has these ways of getting back to the stage.' It's not nearly as hectic as top level play but I still think it's a thing to consider. Basically my advice is, look at people playing before your match, or even better, ask them to play friendlies. Everyone loves friendlies and it gives you a chance to check out how they play. Just be aware that it's a double-edged sword and they can do the same to you.

Once you're aware of your options (both safe and risky), then you can look for certain reads based off what you know. But that usually only really comes into play a few games in, in my experience. Don't worry about it basically - you get a lot of exposure to new playstyles as you go along. Brawl is a game where so much mind presence is required, so if you're naturally good at that kind of thing I think you won't find it hard to flourish with a solid base game. :)
 

Jackson

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Looking at an opponent's playstyle is always, even at low level play, really important. I remember always going better against people when i'd played them a few times (archmage beat me with his ICs the first time we played and he was very new to the scene back then) and it tends to be the case for most people, which is basically allowing a certain sense of 'okay the person should have these rough capabilities and has these ways of getting back to the stage.' It's not nearly as hectic as top level play but I still think it's a thing to consider. Basically my advice is, look at people playing before your match, or even better, ask them to play friendlies. Everyone loves friendlies and it gives you a chance to check out how they play. Just be aware that it's a double-edged sword and they can do the same to you.

Once you're aware of your options (both safe and risky), then you can look for certain reads based off what you know. But that usually only really comes into play a few games in, in my experience. Don't worry about it basically - you get a lot of exposure to new playstyles as you go along. Brawl is a game where so much mind presence is required, so if you're naturally good at that kind of thing I think you won't find it hard to flourish with a solid base game. :)
Thanks man. I need to start paying attention to my opponents and not just my character.
 
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Phan7om

ドリームランドの悪夢
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Heres something that I need to get straight about sex kicks. If a sex kick hits the sheild, but the hitbox is still active afterward, you will get hit if you drop your sheild/jump oos right?
 
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Skull_Kid

Smash Apprentice
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Feb 24, 2010
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Hey guys, I finally have some time to practice and my next tourny will be in August. I wanted to explore wavebounceing more as i find it rather useful for characters I use like Yoshi and ZSS. The only thing is I really don't want to sacrifice my c-stick in order to b-stick like a boss!

I know how to wavebouce without the c-stick and have no problem what so ever with the AT if not for when in need to wavebounce by facing the opponent.

Example by b-sticking upB facing the opponent (using Yoshi): jump forward -> tap c-stick (set up with specials) UP/BACK Diagonal

Voilà the deed is done.

I'm able to do it without using the c-stick but the performance just isn't there, it doesn't really travel as far as when I use the c-stick.

Same for B sticking B. I can perform it by jumping foward -> holding the stick backward -> releasing the stick -> pressing the neutral special button -> holding the stick foward towards the opponent, but again, it isn't as good.

Is there something i'm missing? I've tried to look on smashboards and found a useful thread but it doesn't really help me find a solution.
 

teluoborg

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You're doing everything right, you just need to do it faster. The speed of B sticking is 1 frame, so it takes some practice to get the same results.
 
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