Brawl Information Compendium & Social

[da K.I.D.]

I, for one, at this point, am legitimately angered and upset by the fact that even the best of us seem to be completely clueless on one of the core aspects of this game.

 

[infiniteV115]

Wow. I didn't even know you could jump during normal shield drop lag.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

You didn't? That's why Up-B and Up-smash OoS are much faster than many other options OoS

 

[teluoborg]

I think he thought more like this :
-You are in shield you can jump and cancel said jump
-You drop your shield you have to suffer 7 frames of lag and there's nothing you can do about it.

At least that's how I thought about shields until today.

Maybe it'd be cool if the smash lab did a compendium about shields like they did with techs and such.

 

[Pikabunz]

Here's another little known fact; Yoshi is the only character that can spot dodge during shield drop lag. He cannot roll though.

 

[Ayce God]

Unfortunately I'm missing even the most basic things to get even a single fight online. I noticed this place had a lot of activity, and being sort of a ranking place I figured you guys may be interested.


I've been trying to one up the obvious difference there will be between my opponents and me(however many years it takes to finally be in a f----g tournament OTL) using intense training.

Here's a battle I had a day or two ago:

Setting: 150% damage handicap Ness(me) vs Lvl 9 Fox non-obstacle Flat custom stage no items three lives no time limit.

Result: Win(me) with three lives left in under three minutes, less than 200% damage, 52% hit percentage.

I haven't tried it with others yet but Ness isn't my best character, I also have the video saved if needed. I just want to know if it's the norm or if I'm doing anything worth talking about. I haven't been in touch with Brawl players for years but I love Brawl and I want to be the best at it.


P.S. My computers are the kind that actually put up a masterful challenge and know what they're doing(as if they're pissed or something), not the ones that stand around like idiots.

I love everything about this post

 

[infiniteV115]

I think he thought more like this :
-You are in shield you can jump and cancel said jump
-You drop your shield you have to suffer 7 frames of lag and there's nothing you can do about it.

At least that's how I thought about shields until today.

Maybe it'd be cool if the smash lab did a compendium about shields like they did with techs and such.

Yeah pretty much this
I thought all the (direct) options OoS were
-Froll
-Broll
-Spotdodge
-Jump
-Shield drop
-Shield grab

I didn't think of jumping out of shield as cancelling a shield drop with a jump, because you don't have to drop shield to jump (ie let go of the shield button)

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Is there a list of how far and how many frames each initial dash and dash turnaround lasts?

If not, someone needs to help me create a list. I think it could really benefit certain characters in the approach department.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Maybe it'd be cool if the smash lab did a compendium about shields like they did with techs and such.

You noticed my compendium?

Is there a list of how far and how many frames each initial dash and dash turnaround lasts?

If not, someone needs to help me create a list. I think it could really benefit certain characters in the approach department.

I feel like I did the initial dash at some point, but not the turnaround. Lord knows where I posted the initial dash though

 

[-LzR-]

Is there a list of how far and how many frames each initial dash and dash turnaround lasts?

If not, someone needs to help me create a list. I think it could really benefit certain characters in the approach department.

I would really like to see this list as well. Knowing those frames is very important.

 

[C.J.]

I feel like I did the initial dash at some point, but not the turnaround. Lord knows where I posted the initial dash though

I know you did at some point. That's how I learned Marth's dash->shield is the worst in the game at 17 frames. I think Falcon's was 16. MK's was 14 or 15 iirc.

I forget the rest.

 

[infiniteV115]

Sheik's is probably really good.
ZSS' is good as well, though I think Sheik's is better.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I wanna say sheiks is 7 frames.

 

[-LzR-]

Doesn't Sonic have the fastest one in practice with sideB into shield?

 

[da K.I.D.]

yes. I never thought about it that way before, but yes.

 

[Pikabunz]

I don't think so. Sonic's sideb has a little bit of start-up before he can shield in it.

 

[-LzR-]

It still appears to be quite fast compared like almost all the dashes in the game.

 

[Pikabunz]

Yeah, it's probably still faster than most dashes, but it wouldn't be the fastest. I'm gonna test this real quick.

 

[da K.I.D.]

its less than 7 frames, im almost certain of that.

 

[Pikabunz]

Sonic shields on frame 8 after a sideb, so even if he dashes for just 1 frame he'd still be slower than Sheik.

 

[da K.I.D.]

and whats his normal dash shield?

 

[Pikabunz]

His initial dash is 10 frames.

 

[-LzR-]

Can someone tell me how can I check framedata and hitboxes and such? I'd like to perform some research of my own, but I need some guidance for starters. I am also interested to join the smashlab possibly if I get more interested, but currently I would just like to work on something of my own.

 

[teluoborg]

You should probably ask in the workshop threads, I know there's a hitbawks thread somewhere there.

You noticed my compendium?
http://i.imgur.com/399MX.gif

None of your efforts were in vain my dear friend, for I have read every single tactical thread since 08. Even the sjr explanation.
Love the gif btw.

I feel like I did the initial dash at some point, but not the turnaround. Lord knows where I posted the initial dash though

The list was on the metagame minute blog before the site went down forever.
If you find that back can you get the platform shield push list too please ? The one from another MMinute where you get to know who can tech and who can't and such.

 

[BigMilk]

Im working on improving my reads. What are some things I should watch for or just general advice on making reads?

 

[da K.I.D.]

you put people in the same situation repeatedly and observe how they react.

You character icon says lucario so Ill use him as an example.

you grab somebody and you up throw them then see what they do. their options are attack (if they are an aggressive player) jump (if they are a reactive player) or airdodge (if they are a defensive player)

if you know they are a defensive player, and tend to airdodge in that situation, then you can use that knowledge and attempt to pre emptively throw a charged up aura ball that will hit them out of their airdodge.

Its basically using your knowledge of the player to predict their actions and punishing accordingly.

 

[BigMilk]

seems obvious after it being explained but thank you.

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

Questions about sdi: Is a charged smash harder, easier, or about the same level of difficulty to sdi?

Also, what is the trick or inputs for sdi'ing a hit towards the stage and teching? I've done it before against ZSS bair when she has me in that stun gun paralysis, but that was pretty much panic sdi + shield button.

 

[Yikarur]

I'm so upset about the last 2 pages.
How long is this game out again?

 

[infiniteV115]

Questions about sdi: Is a charged smash harder, easier, or about the same level of difficulty to sdi?

Also, what is the trick or inputs for sdi'ing a hit towards the stage and teching? I've done it before against ZSS bair when she has me in that stun gun paralysis, but that was pretty much panic sdi + shield button.

The only things that affect how 'easy' it is to SDI an attack are
-The number of frames of hitlag
-The SDI multiplier on the move

And I don't think either of these changes by charging a move.

There are no 'tricks' to SDIing into the stage and teching, you just SDI down and hope you hit the stage, and tech when you hit the stage.

 

[da K.I.D.]

the only thing that makes charged smash attacks easier to SDI is the fact that you can see them coming, since they have to stand there and flash yellow to do them.

 

[Pikabunz]

Charging a smash increases it's hitlag.

 

[infiniteV115]

Not for ZSS' dsmash

 

[Pikabunz]

It does increase for her dsmash too. It wouldn't increase for Ness' yo-yo or Snake's mortar though, since those don't increase in damage when charged.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Snake's mines?

 

[-LzR-]

Charging a smash increases it's hitlag.

"instert the more you know.jpg here"

 

[infiniteV115]

It does increase for her dsmash too. It wouldn't increase for Ness' yo-yo or Snake's mortar though, since those don't increase in damage when charged.

Oh, huh.
It must be by a very small amount then, cause for ZSS it always seemed like charged/uncharged dsmash never made a difference in how long the opponent is stunned (in hitlag)
It only seemed to change with changes in staleness and damage

Good to know.

 

[Zankoku]

Hitlag is affected by damage in %, yes - this also means that attack decay reduces hitlag, iirc.

Stunner stun is not quite the same as innate hitlag.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Is there anyone out there that can give me a 100% confirmation on the powershield window for brawl? as a lesser request, i would like it for melee too. But brawl is the important one.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

You mean the window to be able to powershield?

1 frame for Melee/PM; 4 frames for Brawl.