Brawl Information Compendium & Social

[BlindSpot]

So, if Kirby has 4th port, it will work against any other port. And if Kirby has 3rd port, it will work against 2nd and 1st port? And if Kirby has 2nd port, it will work only against 1st port? (Trying to understand this the best I can)

But, it's safe to say that if Kirby has 4th port, he's safe?

What happens if someone already has downs on 4th port, and we're stuck with him getting 3rd? Will it work against the player with either 2nd or 1st port?

 

[da K.I.D.]

You got it.

 

[BlindSpot]

Awesome

I'm about to go test some different things, but, would any of you happen to have any advice for our team(s)?

 

[infiniteV115]

Since we've never seen you guys in action all we can really give is generic teams advice

Maximize 2v1s that are in your team's favour and minimize 1v2s that aren't in your team's favour
Generally, if you grab an opponent, throw them towards your teammate so they can follow up
Be prepared to follow up on your opponent's throws

As for char specific stuff, Pikachu's dsmash is very good when you and your teammate have sandwiched the opponent and you want to apply pressure/shield pressure. Jab is also great for shield pressure.

Kirby's bair is great for followups, so is thunder. Pikachu's nair and dair are also good for followups, with dair being a bit better due to it having better range as well as the fact that it lasts for so long.

Maybe something like Kirby inhales opponent --> spits them out into thunder? idk lol. Doubles is (imo) quite a bit harder than singles since there is a lot more that you have to pay attention to, and it's up to the creativity of you and your teammate, as well as good communication (in and out-of-game) and a general knowledge for each other's playstyles that will really bring out the best of your teamwork. If it's your first time (I believe this is what you said?) then it'll seem fairly chaotic to you, it takes a while to get used to in comparison to singles.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Typically, youll want to have some sort of gameplan going into the match.

usually one character is the aggressive one, while the other is more defensive and plays backup to assist the point man when he over extends himself.

 

[teluoborg]

But, it's safe to say that if Kirby has 4th port, he's safe?

What happens if someone already has downs on 4th port, and we're stuck with him getting 3rd? Will it work against the player with either 2nd or 1st port?

1-yes Kirby is safe as long as your thunder hits both characters. If you only hit one character it'll die, no matter what his port is.

2-in case of disagreement in choice of ports, it is usually determined by a rock-paper-scissors or, funnier to do, each team picks one GW and the person that gets the higher number on side b gets to choose his port first.
Then the winning team chooses 1 port, the other team chooses 2 ports and the winning picks the last port.

One advice for doubles also : always have an eye on each character, especially your team mate. If you play the support character your role will be to cover your team mate with quick attacks so that he can be safe and get openings to land powerful moves.

 

[infiniteV115]

I'd prefer it if a member of the smash lab answered this question.

So let's say we have a move like ZSS' bair

The hitboxes are out on frames 8-10, they don't change and they don't move. No sourspots/sweetspots exist for this move, and all 3 hitbubbles have 21 BKB and 64 KBG.
However, the biggest one (the one at her foot) deals 13% while the other two deal 12%, meaning the one at her foot always deals the most knockback.

So, let's say this move connects with 1 hurtbox on frame 8, and on frame 8 the hurtbox of the opponent is in contact with both the hitbox at her foot (that does 13%) and the one in the middle (that does 12%)

How does the game 'decide' the amount of knockback and damage applied to the opponent? Does the hitbox that deals more damage take precedence? Or is it the one with higher knockback? The one that overlaps more with the hurtbox? The one furthest away from the attacker? etc etc

Thanks in advance.

 

[da K.I.D.]

anybody who has access to frame data.

Infinite has sparked my info gathering side as well.

can anyone tell me how much shield stun Sonic back air does, as well as how much landing lag it has?

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I'd prefer it if a member of the smash lab answered this question.

So let's say we have a move like ZSS' bair

The hitboxes are out on frames 8-10, they don't change and they don't move. No sourspots/sweetspots exist for this move, and all 3 hitbubbles have 21 BKB and 64 KBG.
However, the biggest one (the one at her foot) deals 13% while the other two deal 12%, meaning the one at her foot always deals the most knockback.

So, let's say this move connects with 1 hurtbox on frame 8, and on frame 8 the hurtbox of the opponent is in contact with both the hitbox at her foot (that does 13%) and the one in the middle (that does 12%)

How does the game 'decide' the amount of knockback and damage applied to the opponent? Does the hitbox that deals more damage take precedence? Or is it the one with higher knockback? The one that overlaps more with the hurtbox? The one furthest away from the attacker? etc etc

Thanks in advance.

Each hitbox in the game is assigned with it's own hitbox number. The higher number hitboxes get priority over lower hitbox numbers.

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

Sonic's bair looks to have 11 frames of landing lag.

So how many frames is an aerial jump? Is it different for characters with wings like mk, pit, zard?

 

[infiniteV115]

Each hitbox in the game is assigned with it's own hitbox number. The higher number hitboxes get priority over lower hitbox numbers.

Oh cool, thanks. I actually have access to your spreadsheet (on googledocs) of ZSS' frame data, in which column is this #?
Is it 'hitbox ID'? Cause that'd be pretty lame. That means the weaker hitboxes of bair (and fair2) take priority

 

[-LzR-]

Sonic's bair looks to have 11 frames of landing lag.

So how many frames is an aerial jump? Is it different for characters with wings like mk, pit, zard?

I cannot confirm this, but I heard every single aerial jump is cancelable after 1 frame.

 

[Luigisama]

When a character lands on the stage, how does brawl determine that character is going to land?
I've read that when the legs of the character make contact with the stage that is when they will land on stage.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

I would assume it is when the hurtbox of the character touches the stage (Based on Snake's uair)

 

[teluoborg]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14940513&postcount=12

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

Can you spam/buffer shield inputs to increase the chances of teching or is it a godlike timing matter where you have to press it at the exact time for it to work?

 

[da K.I.D.]

i know in melee you could hold the shield button for about a half a second and as long as you hitt the ground within that time frame, you teched.

but in brawl it became more of a proximity effect. where you had to hit the shield button within a certain distance of hitting the stage in order to tech, this makes teching slightly harder in brawl.

in melee, if you hit the shield button and missed a tech. you could not attempt a tech again for 15(?) frames. but I think that was removed in brawl as well.

 

[Luigisama]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14940513&postcount=12

ah ok thanks then.

 

[-LzR-]

I think there is a time for Brawl as well that if you miss a tech where you can't tech again. If I am wrong, please tell me.

 

[infiniteV115]

I read that it was 40 frames. I may have been lied to lol.

 

[fox67890]

What exactly makes the ledges on certain stages "bad" (such as on PS1). I know sometimes that some characters fail to snap onto it occasionally, but is their a clear reason as to why certain ledges work that way?

 

[infiniteV115]

They're not bad, the ledges consistently function in the same way. The only reason people dislike the ledges is because at certain camera angles caused by the positioning of the characters, you can't see exactly the ledge, but with experience and refusing to derp, you should be able to get it.
And on stages like BF and SV, if you try to recover and you don't aim it 100% perfectly at the edge, you just slide up the slope and grab the edge anyway. With PS1 if you misaim you might go past it and under the lip, and you can't grab it from there, so you die...but it's really only due to people not aiming properly.


Maybe I'm biased cause I play ZSS and she has the longest tether recovery in the game, but they're really not a big deal.

Also I believe certain recovery moves (Falco's/Fox's upBs, I think their sideBs too, Pikachu's QA for sure) will, if done at a certain height (I think at the exact same height as the ledge) and you go horizontally into it, you go through it and don't grab it and die. Happens on Delfino too.

 

[teluoborg]

Happens with all ledges that don't have walls. Delfino/Halberd ledges have no wall, PS1 has a ceiling (similar to FD except FD has a small wall by the ledge). BF and SV are considered walls, for information.

What I mean is that if there's no wall to stop your recovery move (like Fox/Falco's side B) then you must sweetspot the ledge (=make your "ledgegrab" hitbox connect with it) or you'll pass through and dieeeeeee.

Also in Melee you have 30 frames before ground impact to tech, but for Brawl I'll quote the sticky of the Smash Lab :

Tech [Universal] - The action that occurs when you input a shield as you land when you're in tumble. The window is variable due to Brawl's coding engine.

Now can someone tell me how many frames it takes for Jigglypuff's rollout to get fully charged (18%) and 2/3 charged (16%) ?

 

[fox67890]

Oh, so it could be overcome with precision then? I'll keep that mind. I can personally confirm that Fox Fire not snapping onto the ledge thing btw :\. I think It has also occasionally happened when I angled it down and went to the ledge. Eh...

I never thought about it from teluoborg's perspective. That does make sense though.

Thanks~

 

[infiniteV115]

If you had trouble grabbing it while angling it downward, it might have been because you were holding down.
It's impossible to grab an edge while inputting down (or down+something) on the analog stick.

 

[SoulPech]

Now can someone tell me how many frames it takes for Jigglypuff's rollout to get fully charged (18%) and 2/3 charged (16%) ?

Charge Time For 16%: 49
Charge Time For 17%: 53
Charge Time For 18%: 57

 

[infiniteV115]

49 definitely doesn't sound like 2/3rds of 57 lol

 

[Tesh]

Is there an extra chance of tripping when pivot grabbing?

Ever so rarely, when I run and pivot grab (ive only seen it with sonic), he does this crazy sliding pivot TRIP across the entire stage. Its basically his running trip animation, but facing away from the direction he is sliding and he goes across pretty much the entire stage.

Could someone explain this to me?

 

[infiniteV115]

I'm not sure, but I think that (in the same way there's a 1% chance to trip every time you initiate a dash) there's a chance that you'll trip every time you enter your turn-around-skid animation (ie if you're running left and you press right, you do this sliding turnaround that slows you down), and I'm pretty sure you have to enter that animation for at least 1 frame in order to pivot grab.

 

[da K.I.D.]

what infinite said, plus sonic is just really fast with average traction so when he slides, he slides alot.

Kinda like if youve ever ran at somebody and they footstooled you, sonic slides liek 2/3rds of the stage when that happens.

same concept.

 

[Tesh]

Its weird, its just never happened to me with any other character. Ironic too, because Sonic's pivot grab isn't really worth that much compared to like MK.

 

[da K.I.D.]

sonics pivot grab only works on other sonics.

i trip during ddds pivot grab, but since hes so slow, he just rolls over in place. its kind of funny in a slightly depressing way lol

 

[Strong Badam]

a pivot input also counts as a dash, so yeah you can trip just trying to pivot grab.

 

[SoulPech]

49 definitely doesn't sound like 2/3rds of 57 lol

Charge Time To Hit: 34
Charge Time For 12%: 34
Charge Time For 13%: 38
Charge Time For 14%: 42
Charge Time For 15%: 45
Charge Time For 16%: 49
Charge Time For 17%: 53
Charge Time For 18%: 57

There's a total of 8 Charge Times to Consider

If you take the 16% of the one he requested, it's more like 3/4. His fault for the 2/3 portion
Or if you take out the first Charge time, then it would be 2/3 ish. The 2/3 would be between the 15 and 16% and since most people round up on numbers, I rounded it up to 16%

 

[infiniteV115]

Oh I see, makes sense.

 

[SoulPech]

here is what doesn't make sense to me:

Charge Time For 14%: 42
Charge Time For 15%: 45

Why is this 3 and not 4 like the rest of them? T_T. I mean...i guess it's 'good' since it saves a frame to charge

 

[yoshi8984]

Kinda like if youve ever ran at somebody and they footstooled you, sonic slides liek 2/3rds of the stage when that happens.

Does that explain why my Ness slid like that in this video at around 3:14?

 

[infiniteV115]

It doesn't look like you got footstooled...but I have no idea what that is so maybe you did

 

[yoshi8984]

I saw the sparks from Lucas, so I'm guessing he was trying to Double Jump out of it and then I got footstooled

 

[fox67890]

I think he was trying to use his PSI magnet. I know Ness's pushes people away when you end it. Does it work the same for Lucas? But yeah, that was a weird slide.