Brawl Information Compendium & Social

[TheReflexWonder]

When you're not currently in an animation (because there's nothing to buffer from), when you're getting grab-released (but not when you grab-release someone), and when you're on the ledge before you can do an option from the ledge.

Also, if you get grabbed while pressing buttons prior, those commands don't count as "buffered mashing" inputs.

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

oh wow I thought you could buffer mashing

 

[da K.I.D.]

For lack of a better description, it just...is. It counts as a surface for lasers to stop on, as if they hit a shield, character, or another hittable hurtbox.

if a wolf laser hits an opponent, they can sdi it,
if it hits their shield they can shield sdi it.
wouldnt that mean that you should be able to sdi it if it hits a standing shield too?

 

[smashkng]

You can't buffer anything after a ledge jump right? And I do think you can buffer any get ups from the ledge except a ledge drop, that's how I've felt in the game at least anyone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Pikabunz]

^ I think you're right about all that.

Yoshi can't buffer after a dtilt unless you're holding down. Pretty weird, I don't think any other move is like that.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

if a wolf laser hits an opponent, they can sdi it,
if it hits their shield they can shield sdi it.
wouldnt that mean that you should be able to sdi it if it hits a standing shield too?

I don't think it puts the character in hitlag. If it doesn't put the character in hitlag, there's no window to SDI.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Link's "shield' creates a little "bubble" that detects when a projectile hits it. It then cancels the projectile (like stopping the lasers with a hitbox style type of cancel, but if it's non-transcendent then it reacts like it's clanking)

 

[infiniteV115]

Fairly obvious but you also can't buffer certain things out of certain moves

eg you can't buffer an aerial out of a Diddy sideB/ZSS downB, or a glide, because that'll cause you to use the attack (monkey kick/flip kick/glide attack respectively).

 

[NickRiddle]

Does anyone know all of the situations in which you can't buffer?

You also can't buffer when standing at the edge of a platform/stage and you are facing off the platform/stage.. In teeter animation I guess.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Fairly obvious but you also can't buffer certain things out of certain moves

eg you can't buffer an aerial out of a Diddy sideB/ZSS downB, or a glide, because that'll cause you to use the attack (monkey kick/flip kick/glide attack respectively).

Can you buffer the kicks out of those move during the start-up?

 

[infiniteV115]

I'm like 99% sure you can for ZSS' downB

 

[teluoborg]

Obviously you can't buffer A moves out of a jab sequence (also true for mk/snake's Ftilt), hence the need of jab canceling.

I think you can't buffer out of hitstun (be it for momentum/meteor canceling of for interrupting pseudo combos) but I'll need a confirmation from a science guy for that.

 

[infiniteV115]

I'm fairly certain you're correct.
That's what was said in the first video of the 4-video series on DI, Momentum Cancelling and SDI made by the Smash Lab and GimR and some other people.

On frame 14 (can't be buffered) of hitstun you can initiate an airdodge
On frame 26 (can't be buffered) of hitstun you can initiate an aerial
When hitstun is over (this CAN be buffered) you can jump/do a B move

I guess you can initiate zairs on frame 15 since you can cancel airdodges with them?

 

[C.J.]

Yes
You can also do item throws on frame 15 because you can cancel ADs with them.

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

Do you have to be far away from the surface of something before you tech? Like why can't you tech falco or Ics cg to spike or ganon flame choke?

Also nub question, how do you escape tornado? I know you can only DI the first hit so is it like when you first get hit by it you jam both sticks up?

 

[da K.I.D.]

Ganons flame choke has a property that doesnt allow you to tech, kind of like snakes down throw.
Falco and ICs though, you can tech both of those, its just that 90% of the people you see play this game are bad so people just dont do it.

Against tornado you actually can DI after the first hit, its just that you cant SDI after the first hit. To get out of it, just hold up when it hits you and try to either jump, airdodge, or throw out a really fast aerial

 

[sGale]

So I was in training mode with Diddy practicing items and Platform Canceling on Lylat and when I did a dropdown PC with a nana on the platform i grabbed it and did a instant toss. I tested it for awhile and I couldn't instant toss down (Diddy just PCd and threw the nana down). Anyone know if it is possible to throw down?

 

[infiniteV115]

I'm having trouble understanding what you're saying.

You tried to do a platform cancel --> buffered dropthrough (ie you platform cancel and then fall through the platform immediately) while you were holding a banana, but instead you just platform cancelled and threw the banana down?

Seriously, can you restate it in a more clear fashion? I have no idea what's going on.

 

[sGale]

Sorry, sorry Non-english johns. No, the banana was lying on the platform when I platform canceled --> droptrough. I just grabbed the banana when I started going down and then I threw it. I think I was trying to F-Air after the dropthrough.

Sorry if it's still unclear. Like I said, non-english speaker.

Edit: What CJ said

 

[C.J.]

I THINK he is saying he did a DTPC (I think that's you abbreviation for it, V115. Where you PC and immediately drop through), picked up the banana on the way up (since the PC involved an AD input), and as he fell back through he threw the banana. In his testing, he was able to throw the banana in any direction, other than down. When he attempted to throw the banana down, he didn't do a DTPC at all and instead just did a normal PC and threw the banana down as he stood still.

 

[infiniteV115]

Well that's interesting. I'll try it out when in evening and see what's happening.

 

[teluoborg]

My guess is that the Dtoss of the banana makes you re-platform cancel, hence making the buffered Dtoss cancel the drop through.
You would be able to Dtoss by delaying the input.

 

[GMaster171]

Got a question about the rules for a tournament I'm going to.

Here's the situation. I have a controller that does have a turbo function, which is obviously banned at the tournament. Now, I asked the manager if I was allowed to use the controller if I remove the button itself, but he said they would have to check it themselves to make sure.

So my question is, should I trust them to allow it? Other than that one button (which I removed from the controller itself) and the paint it is identical to any other GC controller, just its the controller that is most comfortable for me. I'm planning to bring a spare anyway, but I'm just wondering if this would even be allowed anywhere else.

Thanks in advanced

 

[infiniteV115]

At smaller tournaments it's probably fine, at bigger tournaments it probably wouldn't be allowed.

Why? At smaller tournaments, all the TO would have to do is make a quick announcement to all the entrants about it, the other 15-30 entrants in the tournament get a good look at your face and maybe a few of them take a look at your controller, and pretty quickly everyone accepts that your controller's turbo function is disabled.

And in the event that somebody gets suspicious and it becomes an issue, typically at smaller tournaments the entrants know the TO well enough to trust him when he says "I've examined the controller, trust me, the turbo doesn't work."

At bigger tournaments, it's unrealistic to except all 70+ people to remember the announcement and that it was your controller specifically, let alone hear the announcement at all. On top of that, it's more likely that multiple players will complain about your controller, each complaint calling for mediation by the TO and it would just be too much of an inconvenience and take up too much of too many people's time.

My advice to you is to get used to the standard GCC if you hope to attend larger tournaments. Adaptation of this sort probably doesn't take too long (I would say 2 months, tops) anyway.

That's my view on the subject. I hope I helped.

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

wtf does turbo even do in brawl? Make you TAS godlike?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Rapid-fire press one button, I assume.

 

[da K.I.D.]

grab breaks are the only thing I can see it being useful for...

 

[BSP]

It could help you with rising with 's cyclone

 

[Tesh]

If its the type of gamestop turbo controller i have, i doubt it would be useful for anything. Never helped me in mario party thats for sure.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Either way, it still lets you do certain inputs you wouldn't normally be able to do.

 

[infiniteV115]

The only thing I really see it affecting to any significant degree is mashing.

And honestly, if someone grabs you, they can probably throw you before you react quickly enough to press Turbo + A or whatever button you want on turbo.

 

[GMaster171]

Well I have never really used it before, I never even got it to work in smash. I was just worried that they wouldn't allow it only because the controller has it, regardless if I'm going/able to use it.

thanks for the responses, its a small tournament, so if they do need to make an announcement it wont be a problem. Just in case, I guess I can practice with a normal GC controller tonight.

Btw, it is a Gamestop controller, I just opened it up and removed the button. doesn't look as pretty, but they cant say I can really use the function now.

 

[infiniteV115]

Besides, you live in Halifax. I've met those dudes, they're pretty chill. You don't have anything to worry about for smaller NS tournies lol

 

[BSP]

All Brawl is FFA, items on medium, and some timer right?

 

[infiniteV115]

Characters are also random, all stages are on random, dunno what the timer is.

Well that's how it was done at Apex anyway

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I have never once seen anyone get called about for using a turbo controller. However if the guy you're up against is a bad sport and you win your game, he could probably try to get you DQ'd based on your controller if he wanted (never beat Cheese with a turbo controller). I would try to avoid it. :\

 

[-LzR-]

All Brawl is FFA, items on medium, and some timer right?

3 minute timer, 2 stocks, all stages and characters random.

 

[GMaster171]

Just came back from the preliminaries, was fun as hell, but got my *** kicked in 4 rounds. The controller was legal, but the thumbpad fell off mid-game. Someone would have replaced the control stick with my spare one, but because of the fact its a third party one, it wasn't compatible... meh.

still did better than i thought, gonna go over to the character boards to ask questions.

 

[BlindSpot]

I would like all of yours opinion on something.

My friend and I just recently decided to team for tournaments, and need some help. We have a tournament in less than 2 weeks.

He plays Zelda and Kirby, and I play MK and Pikachu.

MK is banned at our upcoming tournament, however, I would still like some advice if it can be given.

What we're looking for, is to see which characters would play best in teams, and what we should be going for to make the team work.

Like, I thought of Kirby up throwing an opponent, and me thundering to gimp them while in the air. However, every time I tried, I always killed Kirby, and not the opponent


If you can answer this, please do. Out of the teams, which of ours has a grab release into grab release? (Like Wario and Fox do)


Any and all advice will be appreciated. Thank you for your time

 

[infiniteV115]

If you want the uthrow-->thunder kill to work, Kirby has to have port priority.

The way ports work is that, if 1 character is grabbing another and they BOTH get hit by an external attack (usually a Snake nade in singles, in dubs it can be anything, in this case, thunder), BOTH will take damage but the one with the lower port (ie closer to port 1) will take the knockback.

So if you guys have ports 1 and 4, set Kirby to port 4 and you're good to go.
If you guys have ports 2 and 3, in the case of uthrow --> thunder it doesn't matter whether Kirby gets 2nd/3rd port as long as you do it to the player with port 1. Don't do it to the player in port 4 or else you'll kill Kirby.