Brawl Information Compendium & Social

[TheReflexWonder]

I don't think you can B-Reverse PT's Down-B, but, I might be wrong.

 

[infiniteV115]

Yes.
Samus' beam.
Bowser's Klaw (sideB)
Falco's reflector.

And I wouldn't be surprised if there were a bunch of others.

 

[C.J.]

That makes a lot more sense. I was so confused; it called into question a lot of the things I knew, hah.

Well, I can't imagine it's "1% extra = 1 extra frame," either...Any ideas? Does someone have the formula?

I wish I did =(
I'm sure there's also a difference in bkb/kbg that would also affect the shield stun.

Are there any moves that can't be B-reversed?

Yes, although Diddy's downB is the only one that pops into mind immediately.

 

[Ayce God]

yo, thanks

 

[infiniteV115]

Yes. ZSS' low ftilt does more knockback than the other 2 angles.

 

[sGale]

Yeah, that sounds right. I think Link's down-B is unreversable too. Just wanted to know if I was doing it wrong or something. Thanks.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Bowser Forward-B is the one I couldn't think of. I knew there was something I was playing around with and was unhappy.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Npe6AaVSlyA&feature=player_detailpage#t=72s 1:12

What the actual **** is this? Can anyone explain to me? It looks like upb at the corner, the stage realizes you can't grab the ledge and throws you up anyway?

 

[Tesh]

i know ive seen something exactly like that on that exact corner of smashville in an old video. I'm 90% sure its a glitch with the stage's collision that lets objects pass through. Just like Halberd (ike too) or Yoshis Island.

 

[infiniteV115]

For the characters with frame 6 standing grabs, on what frames do they have grab armor?
Do any have grab armor on frame 5?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Grab armor isn't actually a thing, per se. What we call "grab armor" is actually just grab boxes being prioritized over other boxes. If a hitbox hits at the same time as a grab, the grab always wins (although the grabber still takes damage from the attack).

In other words, there is no grab armor on frame 5, or at all before 6 when the grab comes out.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Pretty much what SFP said. Although prioritization isn't really the thing, it's more like the game just doesn't interrupt the initial frame of grabbing with that stupid "knockback" thing.

 

[Ayce God]

nvm, found it.

also what other characters other than warios fsmash, have armor when performing attacks?

 

[infiniteV115]

Huh, interesting, thanks.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Moves with armor.
Warios f smash
Ikes neutral b.
Squirtles f smash
The rising part of ddds up b.
Yoshis double jump (tho, that is a different kind of armor)
Snakes up b ( thats a third different type of armor)

 

[BSP]

^Africa Punch

 

[-LzR-]

Ike upB as well.

 

[infiniteV115]

Charizard upB as well
And whistle lmao

I understand the difference between super armor, heavy armor and 'grab armor', and I know how Yoshi's DJ armor and Snake's upB armor work (the former has a knockback threshold and the latter has a 7% threshold iirc)...idk why you posted that.

Edit: I think Waft too?

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Ike's UpB has super armor too, not just neutralB.

EDIT: gah, just saw LzR's post.

 

[Ayce God]

so which ones will Marths tippers not work on?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQJwH1pUWJA

Can one of you guys tell me what's happening here? What I was trying to do was autocancel the very beginning of MK's aerials onto the stage. But sometimes if I hit the aerial right at the corner of the stage as seen in the video, MK would ... jump, for no reason and do his aerial.

 

[infiniteV115]

So I wanna make sure I understand grab releases properly

Character being grabbed is short and has feet off the ground (eg ZSS grabbing MK)
-If no pummeling + no mash, MK air releases
-If no pummeling + mash, MK air releases
-If pummeling + no mash, MK air releases
-If pummeling + mash, and mashes out during pummel, ground release unless MK pressed jump/up while mashing
-If pummeling + mash and mashes out between pummels, air release?

Character being grabbed is not short and feet are touching ground during grab (eg ZSS grabs Snake)
-If no pummeling + no mash, Snake ground releases
-If no pummeling + mash, Snake ground releases unless he pressed jump/up while mashing
-If pummeling + no mash, Snake ground releases
-If pummeling + mash, Snake ground releases unless he pressed jump/up, regardless of whether he broke out during the pummel or in between pummels

Is this correct? If not, please correct me pls.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

For a character to air release:

First of all, he needs to NOT be pummeled. If you break out during a pummel, it's GROUND.

Second, he needs to have his feet off the ground OR mash jump, not just mash. ANY jump input works for this.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQJwH1pUWJA

Can one of you guys tell me what's happening here? What I was trying to do was autocancel the very beginning of MK's aerials onto the stage. But sometimes if I hit the aerial right at the corner of the stage as seen in the video, MK would ... jump, for no reason and do his aerial.

Do you have the C-Stick set to Attack or Special? The game sometimes registers certain C-Stick inputs as a jump if it's not a Smash.

Edit: I think Waft too?

Full Waft has super armor, yeah.

so which ones will Marths tippers not work on?

Super armor is the only thing that Marth tippers won't work on. There is no special property on Marth's tipper that makes it different from other moves as far as super armor is concerned.

Yoshi's double-jump is essentially "knockback armor." The higher his percent, the more knockback he takes from moves. It basically absorbs a certain amount of knockback before Yoshi can start going anywhere from moves. If you ever played Melee, think of his double-jump as an aerial crouch cancel effect.

Snake's Up-B is "damage-based armor." It requires you to deal 7% or more on a single hit for the knockback to affect him. Otherwise, it doesn't.

For a character to air release:

First of all, he needs to NOT be pummeled. If you break out during a pummel, it's GROUND.

Second, he needs to have his feet off the ground OR mash jump, not just mash. ANY jump input works for this.

I'm pretty sure that the Jump command has to be within a certain frame since the grab. Something like at/between Frames 19-38? You can test this by getting grabbed and pressing Jump after a full second has gone by--You won't jump unless your feet are dangling (as in, if you would've air-released anyway).

I actually try to trick people that way by putting my controller in plain view, pressing a Jump command and sounding distressed.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Do you have the C-Stick set to Attack or Special? The game sometimes registers certain C-Stick inputs as a jump if it's not a Smash.

I didn't change the c-stick controls, they're set to smash like usual.

I set X to shield, R to attack, and have tap jump off, but nothing else is different.

 

[teluoborg]

Super armor is the only thing that Marth tippers won't work on. There is no special property on Marth's tipper that makes it different from other moves as far as super armor is concerned.

Does that mean all attacks with cinematic hitlag don't work on super armor (thinking of Zelda and Wolf) ?

I'm pretty sure that the Jump command has to be within a certain frame since the grab. Something like at/between Frames 19-38? You can test this by getting grabbed and pressing Jump after a full second has gone by--You won't jump unless your feet are dangling (as in, if you would've air-released anyway).

And then there's those cases like Fox on MK, where you can force an air release if you catch MK in the air and pummel once in order to make his feet move. But if you don't pummel MK's feet won't move and he'll ground release.
I swear there's more to find about those forced air releases.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Does that mean all attacks with cinematic hitlag don't work on super armor (thinking of Zelda and Wolf) ?

I mean, they hit the opponent and they take the damage, but, no, the opponent doesn't experience knockback or hitlag as a result.

 

[teluoborg]

True, I'd forgotten lol.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

So something peculiar:

If you use an aerial that displaces your hurtbubbles (Sonic's bair, zss' bair) after hitstun (as in a momentum cancel) while over the ground (as in over a platform or stage) and the aerial ends while you're over it, the aerial will end and cancel onto the platform or stage instantly. ... Apparently.

 

[fox67890]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Npe6AaVSlyA&feature=player_detailpage#t=72s 1:12

What the actual **** is this? Can anyone explain to me? It looks like upb at the corner, the stage realizes you can't grab the ledge and throws you up anyway?

Look what I found~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeuwDXNcbFE&list=UUGD0AJICGD7TgrWtHxjURsA&index=1&feature=plcp

 

[infiniteV115]

Yup, we know.
THe dude that made the video you just linked (Peace) showed us the combo video in the ZSS boards, we started to practice it and then after a few of us got it he made a video of it lol.

 

[fox67890]

o

Well, that's good.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Does that mean all attacks with cinematic hitlag don't work on super armor (thinking of Zelda and Wolf) ?




And then there's those cases like Fox on MK, where you can force an air release if you catch MK in the air and pummel once in order to make his feet move. But if you don't pummel MK's feet won't move and he'll ground release.
I swear there's more to find about those forced air releases.

Right. Buffered pummels.

 

[Alexrocks0221]

Hey who are the best Link, Ike, Wolf, and/or Sonic users in the US, or Europe?

 

[da K.I.D.]

Link. Us. Legan, kirinblaze
Eu. Mr R.

Ike. Us. San, Ryo
Eu. Blubolouis

Wolf: us. seagullman/seagull joe, kain, mc peepants
Eu. ???

Sonic. Us. Espy, __X__
Eu. Satanpuu

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Semifer in Europe for Wolf

 

[infiniteV115]

How many frames is a buffered turnaround?

eg ZSS' dtilt comes out on frame 5, but if I buffered a turnaround-->dtilt would it still come out in 5 frames? I've been told that buffered turnarounds take up no frames but I want to make sure

Also is this data the same for every char?

Edit: Also, how many frames does a non-buffered turnaround take up? For ZSS? And again is this data the same for every char?

 

[da K.I.D.]

turnaround is one frame. all situations iirc.

 

[C.J.]

I was under the impression it was 2 frames. Either way, buffering it won't change that

 

[infiniteV115]

Okay....I just got 2 different answers.
Which is the reason I asked here in the first place.

Can I get an answer from someone in the Smash Lab? Preferably rPSIvysaur cause I can see that he's lurking atm.