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Brawl- 2.X Patch Level 3

Mera Mera

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 1, 2009
Messages
372
Location
Neenah, WI
Yeah, that I get, but why does it only cancel into itself on hit if you're holding down on the controller stick (down c -> down c only does tornado -> tornado if you're holding down on the left stick (on hit))?

And I was just saying that you can't still be holding A to rise and cancel it into footstool at the same time. Was that intentional?
 

Mera Mera

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 1, 2009
Messages
372
Location
Neenah, WI
To the first part? Try spamming down c (and have it hit) you'll do tornado -> nair despite not hitting "A" as long as your left stick is at neutral.

I could be wrong about not being able to footstool when you're holding A, but I didn't get it to work the few times I tried and it's not usually hard...
 

Tommy_G

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
2,355
Location
Miami, FL
Excuse me for being a noob/ignorant to this whole project, but is there a link to an extensive character change list out there?

I've just learned Snake has a forward A+B move. I want to learn all of the intricacies of this game remake.
 

Tommy_G

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
2,355
Location
Miami, FL
How about...which characters have moves that have different inputs for substantially different effects? An example of something I'm not looking for is Zelda can tilt her smashes have have the outer hitboxes rise and drop small amounts, and an example I am looking for would be Lucario's tilted smashes and Snake's Forward A+B.
 

Supreme Dirt

King of the Railway
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Messages
7,336
Mario: NOTHING!
Luigi: NOTHING!
Peach: dash attack goes into down-B, think a super bonewalk, if special is held; angled fsmash controls which item is used
Bowser: B+A koopa klaw air and ground; B+A flame breath for running bear grab; tap forward/backward during FSmash charge for "dash"
DK: B+A ground slam thing for barrel
Diddy: NOTHING!
Yoshi: Z during double jump is djc.
Wario: NOTHING!
Link: A+B during dash attack, FSmash, FTilt for finishing blow
Zelda: angled smashs things
Ganondorf: hold B for Ganondouken on Warlock Punch
Toon Link: NOTHING!
Samus: frame 30 of smash charges cancel to specials
ZSS: NOTHING!
Pit: NOTHING!
Ice Climbers: I have no idea lmao
ROB: hold B on laser for multilaser
kirby: NOTHING!
Metaknight: NOTHING!
Dedede: NOTHING!
Olimar: idk wtf
Fox: hold shield on side-B
Falco: NOTHING!
Wolf: Angle FSmash
Falcon: NOTHING!
Pikachu: NOTHING!
Squirtle: NOTHING!
Ivysaur: NOTHING!
Charizard: NOTHING!
Lucario: angle FSmash
Jiggz: NOTHING!
Marth: Angle FSmash
Ike: NOTHING!
Ness: B+A PK Flash
Lucas: Hold B PK Fire
GaW: angle FSmash
Snake: Angle FSmash, B+A nikita
Sonic: NOTHING!
 

Linkshot

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Messages
5,236
Location
Hermit in the Highrise
Mario: NOTHING!
Luigi: NOTHING!
Peach: dash attack / dTilt cancel into everything (even airwalking!) for a momentum boost with that move. Which angle you set fSmash to decides weapon
Bowser: B+A koopa klaw air and ground; B+A flame breath for running bear grab; tap forward/backward during FSmash charge for "dash"; Z+B is a standing pivot grab; Hold Down during Bowser Bomb to slow down and alter cooldown/power
DK: Keep B held (not tapped) ground slam thing for barrel
Diddy: NOTHING!
Yoshi: Z during double jump is djc.
Wario: NOTHING!
Link: A+B during dash attack, FSmash, FTilt for finishing blow
Zelda: angled fsmash/tilt things
Ganondorf: hold B for Ganondouken on Warlock Punch
Toon Link: Press Z during the start of Side Taunt to grab regardless of a held item
Samus: frame 30 of smash charges cancel to specials when B is held
ZSS: Hold B during SideB to make it a combo move instead of finisher
Pit: NOTHING!
Ice Climbers: NOTHING!
ROB: hold B on laser for multilaser;
kirby: Hold SideB for charged hammer; Hold Down during UpB startup for Cutter Beam
Metaknight: NOTHING!
Dedede: NOTHING!
Olimar: NOTHING!
Fox: hold shield on side-B
Falco: NOTHING!
Wolf: Angle FSmash
Falcon: ZSS taunt supercharge
Pikachu: NOTHING!
Squirtle: NOTHING!
Ivysaur: NOTHING!
Charizard: NOTHING!
Lucario: angle FSmash; Shield during uSmash
Jiggz: NOTHING!
Marth: Angle FSmash
Ike: NOTHING!
Ness: B+A PK Flash
Lucas: Hold B PK Fire
GaW: angle FSmash
Snake: Angle FSmash, B+A nikita
Sonic: NOTHING!
Corrected.
 

Kink-Link5

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
6,232
Location
Hall of Dreams' Great Mausoleum
I can give IC info. WHILE CHARGING a smash, Nana can move left or right. Moving in the whole charge up makes Nana slide a considerable amount. Nana sometimes does nair twice for no real reason. Hold f-tilt and Nana runs forward without attacking? Haven't played in months so bear with me.
 

Thunda-Moo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Messages
103
Location
Jackson, TN
Everybody has a lot of changes, but as long as you're familiar to vBrawl, just about everything we didn't explicitly list should be fairly obvious once you use it.

Overall, we tried to make every character better at doing whatever it is that they do. If you enjoyed a character in Brawl because you were drawn to the idea of their playstyle, you should have twice as much fun with them in Minus. And honestly, part of that fun is experimenting. Just try things!
 

DtJ Composer

The Heroine Appears
BRoomer
Joined
May 9, 2009
Messages
10,291
Location
Hail to the King, Baby
Can the Patch Download just be included in the Brawl- 2.X download already, instead of them being separate? Or can better instructions on what needs to go into the regular files from PL3


Danka BPC :V
 

Juushichi

sugoi ~ sugoi ~
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
5,518
Location
Columbus, Ohio
I can give IC info. WHILE CHARGING a smash, Nana can move left or right. Moving in the whole charge up makes Nana slide a considerable amount. Nana sometimes does nair twice for no real reason. Hold f-tilt and Nana runs forward without attacking? Haven't played in months so bear with me.
In addition (as a Minus IC main) Grounded Squall is cancellable with a grab or shield grab, iirc, but only when both are together. You don't need to hold ftilt to send nana, just tap it, but you have about a second or two to make her do an input for this desync. She seems to do everything except for solo squall perfectly (and sometimes she does that right, idk why). dtilt is also a slight desync, that allows enough time for just about any quick move (jab, smashes, blizz, IB, etc, etc).

No idea why she does nair twice, probably because the startup/cooldown is so fast... It's useful though.

Also, agreed with Composer.
 

MASTERLINKX

enjoy my good friend shulk! :)
Joined
Sep 19, 2007
Messages
805
Location
Canada, Ontario
NNID
MASTERLINKX
Can the Patch Download just be included in the Brawl- 2.X download already, instead of them being separate? Or can better instructions on what needs to go into the regular files from PL3


Danka BPC :V
http://www.mediafire.com/?5vgemc6km1qb68z

Here ya go.

It was literally drop all the patch files over the older ones.

But now people wont have to worry about that.
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2008
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8,905
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Vinyl Scratch's Party Bungalo
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Budget_Player
For the most part, my characters felt right except for Pikachu...

The new quick attack thing is gonna take awhile to get used to... :urg:
I don't like it either, but it's just obscenely hard to make the move functional, but not completely busted.

Also, there are a few announcements about the minus event at Concentrate 4 to be made. I'll be posting about that later...
 

Tommy_G

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
2,355
Location
Miami, FL
You did remove it. Zelda's horizontal UpB to the ledge now autocancels before she goes off the stage. It prevents it from being done.
 
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Okay guys, a little heads up. Diem is running a Brawl- side-event at Concentrate IV. That is ****ing awesome. However, it's worth noting that, as far as I have heard, he is not using the most recent balance patch, although I do believe he's up to PL2, which includes at the very least the Olimar and Kirby bugfixes/balancing. It simply wasn't far enough in advance for the tournament, and I understand completely.

He has also informed us that most of the alleged balance issues that he complained about a while back, which we thought we had dealt with, are still present, primarily with regards to what east coast considers the top tier of characters. This is unfortunate going into the leadup of one of the more serious Brawl- events recently, but at least it'll show us what we're dealing with.

I'd appreciate it if you all kept this in mind while playing. We in the backroom are really low on high-quality playtesting, and we get very little actual tournament data, let alone videos. We strongly recommend taking part in the event; we really need that information (please please please save and send us the replays!) and I have my doubts that 2.X is truly that broken. Hopefully not too long after Concentrate IV, there will be a 4th balance patch. Even if there's nothing extreme from the tournament to address, there are a few odd nasty strategies with Pikachu that are just coming to light, and there are a few more odd fixes where we overdid it / made the game seem just outright silly.

TL;DR: Diem isn't using the most immediately up-to-date patch version, the backroom doesn't have much info to work with when balancing currently, and we intend to, if necessary, push another balance patch out fixing the issues that crop up in this tournament.
 

ksizl4life

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
5,222
Location
NJ/NY
im glad zss is still broken as **** and that lucario is still really good. ima win today ;3
 

Supreme Dirt

King of the Railway
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Messages
7,336
Nah man, cause if they do that we might nerf their characters and they'll have trouble winning with the same broken tactics.
 

ksizl4life

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
5,222
Location
NJ/NY
It wasn't run due to time constraints. Just 30 minutes of casual matches. There may be recordings in Jaxel's archives. People seemed to enjoy playing it and watching it a lot. Good chance we'll legitimately side event it at more tourneys.
 
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It wasn't run due to time constraints. Just 30 minutes of casual matches. There may be recordings in Jaxel's archives. People seemed to enjoy playing it and watching it a lot. Good chance we'll legitimately side event it at more tourneys.
That's good, either way. Diem was telling me before the event about significant balance issues with Pikachu, Sheik, and Wolf (among others). Did that pan out, or is the current build reasonably balanced?
 

JOE!

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
8,075
Location
Dedham, MA
so, any ideas as to what would consistently cause my wii to freeze when going from character select to stage select? (just downloaded the latest version from main page, 1st link)
 
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