Brawl- 2.X Patch Level 3

[Supreme Dirt]

It should be up today.

 

[Debeeters]

So, does that mean that wolf is getting better or worse? I don't personally see anything wrong with him aside from his side-b making his recovery insaaaaaaaanely good. Very fun though.

And it seems a little easy to kill off the top on small stages like Warioware, but maybe it's just the people I'm playing against.

 

[Ripple]

his angled f-smash was unpunishable. and despite only doing 4%, it was OP

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Also, we're going to be paying CLOSE attention to the videos that come out of Concentrate.

 

[Shiroyu]

This is pretty snazzy, and you guys rock.

When I was testing out the Ice Climbers, it froze at one point when I tried to use neutral B. I can't seem to replicate what happened, though.

 

[Mera Mera]

Maybe just been too long since I've played minus, but I feel like a lot more than the change list that was given has changed in this game... I don't remember Sheik's up-B being so quick and I swear, Captain Falcon got even faster.

Were there any global changes?

Regardless, is Wolf's tilted smash being taken out entirely? I don't think he needs it and yeah I agree that given it's unpunishable, it's kinda absurd, especially since it can lead to combos.
What's being nerfed about Pikachu and possibly Sheik out of curiousity?

I'm a bit confused as to how Olimar's Pikmin work. Namely that sometimes when I have multiple Pikmin out I'll use the same one multiple times in a row... does this have to do with IASA frames and if I wait those frames I'll use a different Pikmin? The other thing, which I assume is a glitch but I'll ask to make sure, is that sometimes when I pluck the Pikmin they run to a randomish location rather than staying put. That's just a glitch right? Or is that controllable some how?

One last thing... Maybe it's just that my friends DI poorly, but even if that's the case, Ivysaur's bullet seed (grounded) comes out really fast and works from further away than it looks like or should. I know a lot of times it ends in me getting hit afterwards because of the endlag, but I don't know that I like the feeling of trading blows to balance a move. It's not a huge issue, it just makes me feel like I shouldn't use the move cause I feel like a **** when I do.

Anyways, I love brawl minus and so far it seems that I either like or love all the changes I've seen in this recent build. Really great job! Especially with Peach, Bowser, Mario, and Olimar!

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Wolf's Telesmash is just punishable on Block now.
Pikachu has... a myriad of changes. Pikachu's actually what's going to delay the patch if anything. Somehow stuff managed to go under the radar because people don't know how to tell us exactly what's wrong.

And our changes make Nairo sad face.

 

[Ls777]

Wolf's Telesmash is just punishable on Block now.
Pikachu has... a myriad of changes. Pikachu's actually what's going to delay the patch if anything. Somehow stuff managed to go under the radar because people don't know how to tell us exactly what's wrong.

And our changes make Nairo sad face.

Don't change pika too much...

 

[Yikarur]

what is a Wolfentry.pac? There is no other data for Wolf (so no fix?)

 

[Linkshot]

Maybe just been too long since I've played minus, but I feel like a lot more than the change list that was given has changed in this game... I don't remember Sheik's up-B being so quick and I swear, Captain Falcon got even faster.

Just vanilla doing that to you.

Were there any global changes?

Removed the Level Freezer code

Regardless, is Wolf's tilted smash being taken out entirely? I don't think he needs it and yeah I agree that given it's unpunishable, it's kinda absurd, especially since it can lead to combos.

More hitlag on aerials, and massive on tilted smash so that it's punishable on block.

What's being nerfed about Pikachu and possibly Sheik out of curiousity?

Pikachu is getting a slower Pikacopter, I think nAir is getting Sakurai angle, we're dabbling with QAC. About Sheik, I've missed large chunks of text lately so I will ask them and edit this post accordingly.

I'm a bit confused as to how Olimar's Pikmin work. Namely that sometimes when I have multiple Pikmin out I'll use the same one multiple times in a row... does this have to do with IASA frames and if I wait those frames I'll use a different Pikmin?

Usually it's the one closest to you that gets used for grounded commands.

The other thing, which I assume is a glitch but I'll ask to make sure, is that sometimes when I pluck the Pikmin they run to a randomish location rather than staying put. That's just a glitch right? Or is that controllable some how?

Yeah, that's just them trying to follow while in their "being plucked state". Overall I suggest you try using single-Pikmin Olimar since the stage control style (multiple) is extremely difficult. A single Pikmin can cancel smashes to chase its foe without other Pikmin interfering.

One last thing... Maybe it's just that my friends DI poorly, but even if that's the case, Ivysaur's bullet seed (grounded) comes out really fast and works from further away than it looks like or should. I know a lot of times it ends in me getting hit afterwards because of the endlag, but I don't know that I like the feeling of trading blows to balance a move. It's not a huge issue, it just makes me feel like I shouldn't use the move cause I feel like a **** when I do.

I'd say there are a lot of things in Minus that hugely punish bad DI. Consider it incentive to master the game. We tend to ignore complaints about "X move is broken it 0-deaths me" when you're not even trying to DI properly. On bullet seed specifically, DI can escape it and the grounded endlag is absolutely horrible, so try to slide off the ledge and cancel into tether.

Anyways, I love brawl minus and so far it seems that I either like or love all the changes I've seen in this recent build. Really great job! Especially with Peach, Bowser, Mario, and Olimar!

Thank you! Bowser was load of trials and we had some arguments about Metal Cap. Olimar's power slipped past us, which is why I keep telling people "If a friend complains about a tactic, keep using it. If all the strategies they develop against it don't work, then we'll look into it."

 

[Supreme Dirt]

what is a Wolfentry.pac? There is no other data for Wolf (so no fix?)

PL3 isn't out yet. Therefore there IS no Wolf fix.

Those... entry things can be attributed to MasterLinkX. Feel free to delete them if you need to, they change very little.

As to anyone (myself included) annoyed with Falco laser/sword glows that were in PL2 (lol) they're being patched out, don't worry. Terrible idea.

 

[Yikarur]

but I need the wolf patch now xD

 

[Yikarur]

why did you change Yoshis downB cancel? When Yoshi does his falling downB and you do an aerial you stop immidiately in air and do the aerial.
before he just continued to fall with the downB momentum.
That was much better and it's really stupid how it is now :/

 

[Linkshot]

Oh **** I didn't catch that when I was ****ing around with Yoshi.

EDIT: Oh wait here's the problem. You're pressing Grab to cancel Hip Drop. Stop.

EDIT2: Oh, you're right. Huh...that's weird.

 

[Debeeters]

his angled f-smash was unpunishable. and despite only doing 4%, it was OP

Eh, yeah I can't argue with that.

While you're looking at Wolf, I think I've got a bug for you. I'm finding that if you collide with the edge during his side-b, he sometimes fails to latch on; just kinda bounces off and falls, not in a tumble or special fall or anything. You can still recover with up-b afterward, but it's a pain, and very unpredictable.

And yes this is without holding down, I am aware of its effects.

 

[Linkshot]

Eh, yeah I can't argue with that.

While you're looking at Wolf, I think I've got a bug for you. I'm finding that if you collide with the edge during his side-b, he sometimes fails to latch on; just kinda bounces off and falls, not in a tumble or special fall or anything. You can still recover with up-b afterward, but it's a pain, and very unpredictable.

And yes this is without holding down, I am aware of its effects.

Has occurred since vBrawl. It's a neat cancel you can control.

 

[Arcansi]

Eh, yeah I can't argue with that.

While you're looking at Wolf, I think I've got a bug for you. I'm finding that if you collide with the edge during his side-b, he sometimes fails to latch on; just kinda bounces off and falls, not in a tumble or special fall or anything. You can still recover with up-b afterward, but it's a pain, and very unpredictable.

And yes this is without holding down, I am aware of its effects.

This isn't related to Brawl-.

It happens in vbrawl with Wolf, Fox & Falco.

 

[Debeeters]

Well I was completely ignorant to it. My apologies!

How exactly do you do it? I couldn't seem to make it happen consistently.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Brawl Wolf boards most likely know.

I also know... but I'm exhausted atm and can't really form coherent thoughts lol.

 

[Mera Mera]

So I can still rapid hit people with electric Pikmin with up smash to 0-death people (well, it only happened once, but it still happened)... it doesn't seem to work consistently, but sometimes the Pikmin doesn't actually go up and the person keeps getting hit, perhaps cause I am spamming up smash quickly? Just thought I'd mention it cause I thought you had tried to fix it with the patch.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

It's patched for the v3 already.

 

[[TSON]]

Aw, Oli is really fun! Good job @ whoever did this

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Aw, Oli is really fun! Good job @ whoever did this

...o.O

TSON praising something?

...

I think someone's hijacked your account...

 

[[TSON]]

What, I'm not allowed to like things that are actually done well? :'(

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

No, it's just... you like never praise anything. Coming from you, that's like Olimar is the sistine chapel of the brawl hacking world.

 

[Debeeters]

Kudos to whoever decided to make Kirby's down-b turn into Balrog. Very nice addition.

 

[MASTERLINKX]

Any textures or winning animations applied were done by me.
Feel free to hate anything.

 

[Ls777]

Aww, you took away pikas QAC, that makes me sad...
What exactly did you change about yoshis djc? can't test the patch version at the moment

also, balrog kirby is best kirby

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Yeah, sorry about QAC.

But it literally put Pikachu over the top.

 

[Linkshot]

Immediate standup from land is still pretty fast, and the getup attack is a safe mixup.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Also tripping is invincible
People always forget that.

 

[Linkshot]

Also tripping is invincible
People always forget that.

It's intangible!

And you end up in the neutral position on land, not the tripping itself. But yeah, the actions are instant if you hold the input as you land. All getups are intang.

 

[Yikarur]

"
Yoshi
DJC Zair refined (Yoshi only has a 3-frame window to cancel it.) "

what

"–– Yoshi now can DJC by pressing Z before the aerial"

???

I don't get anything

 

[Linkshot]

Those are likely old patch notes. DJC works by setting a flag in Double Jump, checking it for the first 3 frames of airdodge, and then using zAir mechanics to use his aerial. The flag tells it both to cancel and to halt his momentum. The problem before was that the Double Jump was telling it to do that in Hip Drop, too.

 

[Mera Mera]

Random question and not sure if I should ask it here, but is boost grabbing any good in brawl-? I can't tell if it makes a difference with the few characters I tried it with... and if yes, who is it good for? The same people as vBrawl?
And the same question for reverse boost grabbing if it makes a difference.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Makes the same difference as vBrawl for the most part, yes.

 

[Mera Mera]

Noticed something today with Sheik. Her crawl dash, if done right can go a distance of almost half of final D O_o maybe this known, but in case it isn't, I do this by doing 63214 (and then typically 5 + down c for a sliding backwards down smash).

I can do this fairly consistently facing right, but I haven't gotten it once facing left.. I'm sure you probably can, I'm just failing at the moment.

EDIT: Not sure if crawl dash is the right term, but I mean the sliding backwards thing from crouching out of a run.
EDIT 2: To clarify, this can be done when visible or invisible. It doesn't seem to affect it.

 

[Linkshot]

All crawls do this. Sheik just has one of the faster runs with her crawl.

 

[Mera Mera]

Thanks for the response! I knew that people who could crawl could do that, I was just surprised at how far Sheik's could go.

Another thing, this one for Mario: not sure if this is a glitch or intended, but if you spam down c with mario to do his d-air, on hit (it only applies to when you spam it and it's hitting someone, on wiff this doesn't happen) the second down c input will actually translate to whatever a move your control stick would make you do if you hit A. For example, you hit down c and it connects, you cancel that down c into another down c, and you're control stick is at neutral -> the tornado cancels into n-air, even though you didn't hit "A." If you hold down on the control stick it will still cancel into another tornado as if you were missing. The other directions make it cancel into the other moves A moves instead.

On a side note, I noticed you can't cancel Mario's tornado into foot stool if you are still holding A to get it to rise. And I believe you can cancel Fludd into footstool which I didn't see in the change list.

 

[Linkshot]

Yes, we specifically coded dAir to be a true spinjump: Extra height a la Sunshine, aerial cancels, and footstooling.