Brawl-: 1.5-1.6 thread archive. 2.0 is stickied

[Inferno3044]

I don't see how balancing the game by adding in some nerfs makes it no longer broken...

Falco4000's point is that instead of trying to nerf a small portion of popular characters, we should instead buff the characters that aren't up to par. The only exception would be if a character was just so much better than everyone else that he had to be nerfed (eg. Pikachu and Luigi). From 1.0 - 1.5 I thought there were way too many nerfs. Some characters that weren't even over the top like Bowser got nerfed.

 

[MonkUnit]

That's what were trying to do at the moment. Things that are obviously overpowered will be nerfed and vice versa.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

i understand why people are complaining about nerfs but to me as long as the game stays ridicules/crazy and fun as hell i support the nerfs. I mean who here had played a good luigi in the earlier versions? playing him was not fun at all i was tech chased while he just stayed in the air, he had 0 to deaths all over the place, hell i even saw this guy win matches two on one with luigi. Now i understand that this clearly makes luigi broken which is kind the point of the game but he was so broken the game stopped being as fun. with these nerfs they are able to keep the game competitive as well as crazy and fun so i dont see the problem with it at all.

On a kinda related note what are peoples thoughts on who is good/ great and who needs some buffs? I will start, i believe MK, sheik, and maybe falco (need to play more good falcos but he seems amazing) are all good well made broken characters. While i find Samus, IC's, and peach underwhelming. (I am not trying to start a teir list debate i am just wondering how people feel about certain characters since i only have a small good of good plaers around me (and a larger good of not so good of players ).

I also just want to throw this out there this is the only smash game i dont mind playing free for alls in, just saying.

 

[Inferno3044]

I was happy when they completely remade DK. He was complete garbage and now he's good. Bowser got nerfed very unfavorably. He wasn't even that good but he got nerfed.

 

[[TSON]]

Bowser was popular opinion. People were complaining that we were ignoring our audience when we refused to change his hitstun-heavy-armor to 10%.

 

[Mera Mera]

Monk said earlier (a day or two ago) that "DLC 2" would be coming out soon. What does that mean? I know "down loadable content," but he didn't mean brawl- 2.0, did he? That would be awesome, but earlier than I would expect, so I'm assuming he didn't mean minus 2.0. But what did he mean?

 

[standardtoaster]

He meant the stage dlc, not 2.0.

 

[Inferno3044]

Bowser was popular opinion. People were complaining that we were ignoring our audience when we refused to change his hitstun-heavy-armor to 10%.

I respect that you took people opinions to mind, but people just complain a lot. The heavy armor iirc was to help prevent Bowser from getting juggled. But here's the thing: Bowser was never over the top with the tumble armor. He gets ***** up the *** by grabs. I think Pikachu has/had a CG to death on Bowser. If you hit Bowser with a good knockback non-multi-hit smash, that should be 15%.

Weren't there a couple of other nerfs on Bowser though?

On a side note, I like Sonic. He's very fun.

 

[ksizl4life]

I heard you guys are making Pikachu better by removing the lag he has on his Up b when landing? Please let this be false lol.

Nairo is a dominant force in brawl- tourneys right now and he mains pikachu. Yesterday there was supposed to be a brawl- tourney and in friendlies Nairo was doing 2v1s vs his pikachu and there was so much destruction lmao. it made the brawl- event not even happen!!!! Nerf this ***! I think hes been nerfed a couple times but nairo simply ignores it and keeps ******. this kid is 13 yo lmao!

 

[MonkUnit]

That's why Pika will be receiving some nerfs. If you have not seen this video, I think you should. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iuPDZ--3Io Keep in mind that not all changes we make are final. Currently, it seems to me that 1.6 Pikachu is just on autopilot, requiring little skill, using so much thunder, tjolt, and QA that there is almost a constant hitbox around Pika, making him almost untouchable.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

So, anything on Ganondorf? He feels a little bit sub-par, maybe I'm just doing it wrong, but he doesn't really seem to have much going for him except for absolutely ****** Bowser.

 

[ksizl4life]

That's why Pika will be receiving some nerfs. If you have not seen this video, I think you should. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iuPDZ--3Io Keep in mind that not all changes we make are final. Currently, it seems to me that 1.6 Pikachu is just on autopilot, requiring little skill, using so much thunder, tjolt, and QA that there is almost a constant hitbox around Pika, making him almost untouchable.

dam i didnt think hed get nerfed that much but i do agree that hes mad autopilot. i was just gonna say to nerf his kill moves and hed be more equal to the rest of the cast but regardless cant wait for the next update. i know they are POTENTIAL changes but im just saying lol

 

[[TSON]]

LMAO. no ignore that pika video, its not staying like that. trust me.

he will be nerfed but thats mad overkill.

 

[Raqib]

Will Brawl- take advantage of the clone engine in the future?

 

[MonkUnit]

For now, no. I highly doubt we will use the clone engine at all in the future though.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Falco4000's point is that instead of trying to nerf a small portion of popular characters, we should instead buff the characters that aren't up to par. The only exception would be if a character was just so much better than everyone else that he had to be nerfed (eg. Pikachu and Luigi). From 1.0 - 1.5 I thought there were way too many nerfs. Some characters that weren't even over the top like Bowser got nerfed.

Some chars we cannot bring up to par when compared to others. Not without completely homogenizing the game. Again, take 1.0 Ness/Luigi. If we wanted to bring someone like Bowser or Ganon up to par with them, how the hell would we do that?

So, anything on Ganondorf? He feels a little bit sub-par, maybe I'm just doing it wrong, but he doesn't really seem to have much going for him except for absolutely ****** Bowser.

He's getting some fairly strong anti-projectile options, a ridiculously powerful projectile weapon (currently considering removing this; I'm strongly supportive of keeping it but others aren't), and armor on his wizkick.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

He's getting some fairly strong anti-projectile options, a ridiculously powerful projectile weapon (currently considering removing this; I'm strongly supportive of keeping it but others aren't), and armor on his wizkick.

Ganon with a projectile? If it stays, it better not be spammable.

 

[Sharky]

I just thought of something, dunno if it's do-able or not.

When charizard gets hit during rock smash so he drops the rock, could the rock stay on the field as a heavy projectile akin to bonsly? I don't know how this stuff works so if it isn't possible oh well.

 

[DunnoBro]

...That's actually a good idea Sharky, i doubt it's possible but it sounds awesome :D
Especially if we make the move overall laggier so he can let himself get hit by certain attacks/weak projectiles to drop it.

But yeah, for real. Anyone who thinks we should only be buffing and only nerfing when something is COMPLETELY over the top, is kind of silly.
We DO want balance, after all.
@BPC: It will need some heavy nerfs if you want to keep the ganon projectile.
Quite frankly I'd like a more clever projectile one than the linear and straightforward one we have.

 

[@TKbreezy]

My Main thing is you guys seem to focus on the wrong characters all the time

Like Luigi and Pikachu and Wolf are super broken

but the last few monhts seem to always revolve around PT....


but seeing as you guys are addressing pikachu now...its whatever...Also did you guys put stamina and switch back in?

can you not?...I main squirtle not PT...

 

[MonkUnit]

The no stamina code and no switch on death are both already in the GCT.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

@BPC: It will need some heavy nerfs if you want to keep the ganon projectile.
Quite frankly I'd like a more clever projectile one than the linear and straightforward one we have.

More clever is not really possible for us. And it got a slight nerf. Slight. In fact, more of a rebuild... I've gotten two approvals, at least.

Ganon with a projectile? If it stays, it better not be spammable.

It's attached to warlock punch.

 

[@TKbreezy]

aight Thought so...I played at Snaps house I guess he had an old version


also ganons Ftilt should reflect...just saying

 

[Epic Kovumon]

I hate ZSS, that's I'mma say for now. (Gotta go to work.)

 

[standardtoaster]

lol what don't you like about zss? Is it playing as her or someone beating you all the time?

 

[MonkUnit]

also ganons Ftilt should reflect...just saying

lol. I would rather have his utaunt have reflection some where in the taunt or his upB hand hitbox reflect. So that when his cape cloaks himself, it reflects. Akin to OoT.

 

[@TKbreezy]

so it reflects from behind him? because that **** sound totally impractical..you would never get a reflection...without a freaking PSYCHIC read.

although taunt reflect sound cool if its JC-able like halfway through the taunt (if he doesn't reflect anything possibly)

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

aight Thought so...I played at Snaps house I guess he had an old version


also ganons Ftilt should reflect...just saying

Originally we were thinking Jab, Fair, Bair, and Ftilt, but then we were thinking "WHY ISN'T THIS WORKING".

 

[@TKbreezy]

well if you gave him that many reflectors that would be stupid

I said Ftitl becaus of the animation Him kicking a samus charged shot is just too funny

fair would be funny looking also but bair and Jab...too easy...you could pretty much reflect by spamming jab and Bair is pretty hard...I agree ganon needs some sort of an anti-projectile method but I still think he needs to work for the reflect

 

[Sharky]

I just thought of something, dunno if it's do-able or not.

When charizard gets hit during rock smash so he drops the rock, could the rock stay on the field as a heavy projectile akin to bonsly? I don't know how this stuff works so if it isn't possible oh well.

in case it got looked over, is this do-able?

 

[MonkUnit]

Afaik it is not possible to turn the rock itself into an item that you and others can pick up and throw. I am not sure if it is possible to give the falling rock a hitbox though. I am sure we can though.

 

[Inferno3044]

Giving a character multiple reflectors is a dumb idea and not worth it (excluding Pit because he was put in the game with two). I agree with TKO that having Sparta Kick reflect would look godly, but what about Utilt? You can already auto cancel it and it will actually make the move viable.

 

[[TSON]]

BPC, stop saying 'we'. You make us all sound dumb at the same time.

 

[BSL]

Pit having two was dumb, IMO.

I say ftilt is a good reflector and am now a proponent if said argument.

 

[Epic Kovumon]

lol what don't you like about zss? Is it playing as her or someone beating you all the time?

I can beat ZSS with no problem, I just find her annoying for some reason.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

My Main thing is you guys seem to focus on the wrong characters all the time

Like Luigi and Pikachu and Wolf are super broken

ok idk if u have been playing version 1.6 but pika and luigi are not broken at all. Luigi got the nerfs needed to not be the best i.e sour spot nair no longer sends u up and more lag on air moves. in fact my friend who plays luigi told me he would rather lose the upB always hiting hard and having a tipper if they would make the weak nair send up again.

now for pika i have never played any great ones but nothing about him has been giving me trouble.

wolf i feel is really good, for one he can stale forever, he is hard to punish and is pretty strong, i feel he is near the top in the game but i also think once he loses inf side B and maybe a little nerf on his f-smash which still sometimes sends me at stupid angles he will be fine

ok i feel if ganon has a reflector it should be his jab b/c thats how i see him say gtfo to a energy ball like samus's.

And anyone in the backroom willing to tell me what people are saying about shiek and samus?

zss can be annoying at first but really is not that big of problem, i feel her biggest thing she has is her back throw off the stage and then her dair to spike, i feel some characters just cant get around it (but i dont really care that much b/c mine can )

 

[@TKbreezy]

I at first red this post as you coming at me offensively but then I said meh...you haven't played the people I played

I may have overexaggerated about Luigi and Pikachu being Super broken but they are definitely in that Too good status...

also inferno...utilt would need to be faster if it were to be his reflector so I'm gonna go ahead and stick with Ftilt reflect...Utilt does need a use though...

also I'm in the backroom...just saying

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

BPC, stop saying 'we'. You make us all sound dumb at the same time.

"We" being, in fact, various members of the B-BR. The fact that you aren't included in that group does not make me dumb, it just means you weren't interested in the idea. Kindly go hoop your forehead.

 

[Inferno3044]

I at first red this post as you coming at me offensively but then I said meh...you haven't played the people I played

I may have overexaggerated about Luigi and Pikachu being Super broken but they are definitely in that Too good status...

also inferno...utilt would need to be faster if it were to be his reflector so I'm gonna go ahead and stick with Ftilt reflect...Utilt does need a use though...

also I'm in the backroom...just saying

I meant the whole time his leg is up is a reflector. I mean Utilt has no uses at all. Ftilt to reflect would look godly, but it's not like that move needs a buff.

 

[DunnoBro]

You know, having something like bair or fair reflect would be the route to go imo.
Ftilt is already a staple move.
But bair is only really used when it is the only thing which will hit.

I say those two because in ocarina of time, ganon reflected projectiles with his backhand

I don't think it will be too hard if having the reflective properties having a disjoint and elongation period.
Also make it more of a surprise.

BUT; Why don't we forget about reflecting all together. And make it more like, an absorption or counter type.
Utilt wind absorbs projectiles and makes the point where utilt finally explodes, bigger, stronger, and possibly faster?

There is a ganon PSA out there where utilt has a massive(and amazing looking) hitbox. We could shrink/enlarge to various sizes and use that if the creator would allow it.