Brawl-: 1.5-1.6 thread archive. 2.0 is stickied

[bajisci]

no, im being serious. yoshi's fair is rediculous.

its good but its slow and awfully outclassed by gnw's fair.

 

[Coney]

after playing with this a lot more

i don't like this one as much

i don't know why, i don't know how, i just know

will update when i figure the cause

 

[Pierce7d]

A lot of things are punishable on block that were not before. I think buffering an action out of shield was more frustrating then blocking being underpowered before. I dunno. I'll have to play more.

 

[ksizl4life]

pierce is bad

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Lol

I need to play more that isn't either against an AI or on ****ty, laggy wifi. ;_;

 

[[TSON]]

and this





this is why we cannot have nice things

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Before there was too much shieldstun, now there's too little.

 

[Kirk]

There's no pleasing you people, is there?

 

[Sharky]

make it so every time someone attacks a shield they get bob-omb'd.

instant satisfaction

 

[Pierce7d]

pierce is bad

lol, okay Troll. I'll wreck you in this game so fast you'll get mistaken for an old 83 Camry. MM?

(For any outsiders, I love Ksizzle, and we're good friends)

Before there was too much shieldstun, now there's too little.

I already said that the best way to deal with the shield stun was to drop the buffering. Everything being safe on block was tolerable. Buffering things like grabs that come out 4-9 frames later than expected gets you killed. Still, there's not actually a problem with the new shield

There's no pleasing you people, is there?

Nah, I got everything working, and the game is good. Characters just seem overall a little less broken than before, which I'm neutral on. I'll keep playing and keep giving feedback.

 

[@TKbreezy]

PokeZenigame

-Ftilt: Up-angled trajectory and damage decreased.
-Fsmash: Added a weak hitbox.
-Nair: Waterbox size and damage decreased.
-Fair: Damage reduced by 1.
-Uair: Tip damage reduced by 1.
-Dair: Final hit damage and KBG decreased slightly.

Now, I do understand why you changed the nair hitboxes because squirtle was near untouchable in that

Fair damage reduce is whatever.

But why would you decrease Dair?? I haven't killed with it at all since the new release because it doesn't spike no where near as hard as it used to and everyones recovery is amazing (which is good)

and the Fsmash Range was greatly reduced to the point where I barely use it anymore while in the first build it was one of my main kill moves...

This game feels like a complete overhaul instead of just a few minor tweaks...I was playing with coney when we came up with this discovery and the only line I can remember that we had agreed on is

"This versions feels more like its based on zero to death then actual combos"

Now, I realize a zero to death is a combo, but, you have to really read that sentence to get what we are saying.

Please don't make this another brawl+....good at the beginning, boring as hell now.

 

[Chrisu]

Sorry man, PAL remains SOL. We need a new porter.

well i can port the PAC files
but would it work with the old GCT? or are there so many new codes too?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

well i can port the PAC files
but would it work with the old GCT? or are there so many new codes too?

Mostly code tweaks. The .pacs are the big deal.

 

[UTDZac]

and this





this is why we cannot have nice things

I loaded up the new version and got a bunch of Dallas people together to play it. We all love the changes. The massive shield stun needed to go. Before 1.5, they didn't really want to play Brawl Minus cause it felt too different from vBrawl and they would get annoyed going back and forth from practicing and having fun.

1.5 makes Brawl Minus feel slightly more like a Smash game. It's still incredibly fast, the characters are still incredibly broken, you just cant get away with throwing any attack you feel like at the opponent's shield (similar to melee... almost).

 

[Pierce7d]

Yeah, I mean, in 1.0, there were enough broken characters to balanced each other out. Now, everyone got nerfed MAD hard, so I can just find like 1 or 2 broken things, and they centralize the metagame. Before, there were counters to pretty much everything. Falco had advantage on almost all the problem characters (not sure about Pika but probably. Definitely Yoshi.) The S tier (Squirtle, Pika, Falco, GnW, Yoshi) seemed to balance each other other, and other characters could defeat them, creating a diverse metagame. The game was eerily balanced.

It's probably still decent, but a few characters that were overlooked/good didn't get nerfed, and now they are dominiating with no counters. Still, I need way more playtesting before I'm going to say that one character is Metaknight+ status in terms balance. I think the biggest mistake was upgrading too quickly. I was surprised to find out that 1.5 was being released already.

 

[Revven]

Well, it's been about 3 months since 1.0 was released, some of you didn't find out about this probably until a month ago so to you it may be quite sudden, yes.

 

[bajisci]

I too got used to the more shield stun but its still fine now either way is acceptable. Im not sure what you mean pierce the game still seems balanced, besides squirtle being over nerfed. IMO if you want to nerf his dair as a kill move than nerf it more and make it combo into itself at certain percents so it can still gimp at certain percents but isnt a broken kill move, right now its essentially useless as a kill or gimp move on most of the cast.

Did you guys every consider adding a frozen pokemon stadium 2? When frozen thats the best stage in the game imo.

edit: yea falco did well against pika

 

[Revven]

You can add that in yourself as hotdogturtle made a stage.pac of it here

 

[bajisci]

You can add that in yourself as hotdogturtle made a stage.pac of it here

That is awesome thanks! but unfortunately it cant be used for tourneys if its not standard

 

[@TKbreezy]

Before 1.5, they didn't really want to play Brawl Minus cause it felt too different from vBrawl
.

THATS THE POINT!!!

it needs to be different..and by different I need to feel a totally different experience when I'm playing this game and not regular brawl

Brawl+ updated so much that it began to feel like a slightly faster version of regular brawl and that's it...and it's also the reason I quit playing Brawl+ because it felt TOO much like brawl

Granted, this game could probably never do that because of what they are achieving... I still feel like if it starts getting to close to brawl and i realize it..I will just opt to play brawl instead and thats no good.

 

[UTDZac]

Making all the characters broken with new attacks creates a different experience without changing the core game play that much at all. The shield hitstun was unnecessary.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

No, the shieldstun, like the hitstun, was very necessary. And guys, if you're worried about us going the direction of Brawl+, don't worry. Our next release, 2.0, will be ****ing insane. :3

 

[Alphatron]

if you're worried about us going the direction of Brawl+, don't worry.

I kind of chuckle that we're at the point where this is a bad thing.

 

[Ulevo]

No, the shieldstun, like the hitstun, was very necessary.

Adding hit stun creates and allows for combos. This creates a new, rewarding, dynamic way to play the game. It increases the depth of the game.

Adding too much shield stun ruins shields, effectively removing them as a viable tool to use in nearly any circumstance. This removes depth from the game.

I honestly don't care all that much. But there's a huge fallacy in advocating the removal of vital game mechanics as necessary.

 

[@TKbreezy]

I feel as though the shield stun could have been reduced to an extent but not the extent of 1.5

I have gotten used to shielding being good only in certain situations and just made me space better during gameplay

the shield stun isnt really that big of a deal for me though....the main things is I don't want the Metagame to turn into a super powered brawl

and by that I mean more hardcore camping because, lets face it, brawl is a campy *** game...and when i get tired of playing patient, because if I play aggro I get *****, then I go play brawl minus because of the aggro-ness involved in this game...sure, you can still camp with some characters but it doesnt help you NEARLY as much as it did in brawl

side note: bring Falco's standing Jump Laser cancel back...that was a very unnecessary change...

edit: and umm...Idk if this is fixable or not but if ivysaur doesn't have a jump and you use Up-B...he doesn't get that mini boost that he used to get in regular brawl

however I do like that if u jump and immediately up-b its like a super jump...so maybe I just need to get used to doing that..hmmmmmmm

 

[Big O]

It's kinda weird how drastically different some characters are and how some characters play more or less the same. While DK isn't exactly bottom tier or anything (I think), he doesn't really have anything that stands out as crazy/broken. Everyone else seems to have these random crazy cancels and crazy new moves . The barrels are nice, but they don't seem very broken (and his regular down b is slower for some reason which is a strange nerf). The closest thing DK has to being broken are the punch and his grab. Both are still kinda balanced though. Anyways I guess the biggest complaint is that he doesn't really have anything super flashy.

I'd love to see his Utaunt have some kind of buff like SA and IASA frames, L?Rtaunt reflecting projectiles w/IASA after like 30 frames, and Dtaunt with invincibility frames lol. But realistically I think his aerial up b needs less hitlag to go through multiple projectiles faster, Nair should be buffed to deal with projectiles (bigger hitbox to clank reliably, less hitlag to go through multiple projectiles faster, etc.), cargo state should be enhanced somehow (like faster movement, better aerial control, faster item throws, SA instead of heavy armor, heavy armor on item throws, or basically whatever fits), and down b to get back to normal speed. Cargo Fthrow getting its old angle back, Usmash/Fair getting wind effects, grounded up b moving being able to move backwards, getting rid of the "hold up to break out of cargo throws" glitch, and aerial up b getting more invincibility would be nice, but aren't that important.

I know this could be misinterpreted to be an angry rant, but I'm not dissatisfied with the mod as a whole. It's pretty fun.

 

[bajisci]

imo adding IASA frames to all taunts would be godlike

 

[DevilKiller]

Give Donkey Kong the ability to grab in midair.

Or don't. Easy for me to say it, but if I'm not willing to code something like that and take the time to learn, then expectations should be kept low.

Meh...a few more ideas anyways.

- Wind hitboxes for DK's Up-B. From the side, it sucks in, but from above, it blows away from DK. That would help him from being gimped a bit by spike-happy people.

- Aerial headbutt on a grounded opponent causes dizziness instead of grounding. Two heads smashing into each does sound painful for the skull.

- Increase DK's speed/throwing power/walking speed when holding a barrel or an opponent.

 

[Izaniki]

I kind of chuckle that we're at the point where this is a bad thing.

I agree lol..


Also, my friend and I played B- again last night without any desync problems (after both redownloaded) so it was just a bad download on one of our ends (that was a problem for him earlier, just playing offline).

I have to say, I love how you guys are like "If you think THAT was crazy, just wait till next release!!!" and I just know that you'll actually deliver on it :D I'm too hyped about the next release already though! D:

 

[Kirk]

1.5 is a stepping stone to our 2.0 release. We wanted to try some new things, attempt at some balancing, and fix what needed to be fixed. That's basically it. We are still in Beta, so there will be elements that are always on a test run, and your feedback helps along in this process. There's no possible way we can please everybody, but we do our best.

And believe me when I say that 2.0 will be a big step forward. Potential gameplay additions, character overhauls on those that need it, new features, etc. etc. It will be a lot of work, but I know it will be well worth it.

 

[standardtoaster]

Streaming. http://www.ustream.tv/channel/pitminus

 

[Coney]

1.5 is a stepping stone to our 2.0 release. We wanted to try some new things, attempt at some balancing, and fix what needed to be fixed. That's basically it. We are still in Beta, so there will be elements that are always on a test run, and your feedback helps along in this process. There's no possible way we can please everybody, but we do our best.

And believe me when I say that 2.0 will be a big step forward. Potential gameplay additions, character overhauls on those that need it, new features, etc. etc. It will be a lot of work, but I know it will be well worth it.

well thank you guys for being so open to criticism! i expected nothing but UH WELL DEAL WITH IT when i made my minor complaints, so thanks for the feedback!

i don't know if it's the shieldstun or what, but i definitely prefer the old version to this one...version 1.0 quite honestly never got old, i could play it for hours and hours...for whatever reason it's difficult to play version 1.5 for longer than half an hour. if you'd like i can expand on some ideas, but that's just how i feel in general.

obviously you can't please everybody, and i just might be one of those people, sadly, but i'd like to imagine this game can be fresh and new to me.

 

[Chrisu]

Mostly code tweaks. The .pacs are the big deal.

converting the PACs right now

 

[bajisci]

If you guys actually get the burst working, that'd be the coolest edition to brawl ever. It'd be PERFECT for brawl- and would make it so much more fun.

 

[BSL]

it was actually annoying and made me rage hardcore when people did it to me.

 

[bajisci]

Well is there a way to limit it to like once per stock/match, thats what i was thinking.

 

[BSL]

it was set as once per stock, but it still annoyed me

but thats just me.

 

[Izaniki]

I'm quite interested in knowing more about how Baroque/MegaBurst are being implemented :o Hoping something super flashy AND super awesome? :D

 

[BEES]

I would have it kick in only after a certain point in hitstun. Maybe 75% of the way through, you could burst if your opponent didn't follow up quickly enough. Probably not the way it's implemented here.

 

[Hobobloke]

converting the PACs right now

When you sort this out can you please upload a zip file for me and other PAL users to download.