Balanced Brawl Standard Release

[Eyada]

Apparently, once the codes are available to do so, Planking is going to be eliminated by allowing characters to only re-grab the ledge a finite number of times.

"Aircamping" is mitigated by the character balance changes. If characters have the options necessary to deal with it, it isn't a problem. It also helps that the primary "aircampers" were nerfed a bit, so the strategy is less rewarding overall.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Apparently, once the codes are available to do so, Planking is going to be eliminated by allowing characters to only re-grab the ledge a finite number of times.

"Aircamping" is mitigated by the character balance changes. If characters have the options necessary to deal with it, it isn't a problem anymore. It also helps that the primary "aircampers" were nerfed a bit, so the strategy is less rewarding overall.

/disagree

The fact that neither wario nor MK can kill as well makes the strategy MORE rewarding, and more necessary for them. Wario's gonna have to wait for the waft or time like he does now, but with more emphasis, etc.

 

[daisho]

So you can be just as gay in BBrawl as in normal brawl. And Metaknight and Wario will be more encouraged to do so due to the nerfing of their kill moves.... Yeah.

So I tried out BBrawl today with my friend. The result: a resounding "...meh.". It was fun for a little while, checking out all the gimmicks and new things characters got, but we quickly came to the conclusion that BBrawl is too close to vBrawl for our tastes and that, after over a month of only Brawl+, we didn't feel like switching back to a game where the action was less fast-paced.

On the other hand, I'm gonna have to get used to it anyways if I can't get brawl+ to work when I go back to europe (although I may be without a friend's Wii for a relatively long time; hell, without internet too). Meh.

In general, I think what ruined balanced brawl for me was Brawl+. It spoiled me. I now want to combo, I now want my ganon to be able to approach with aerials, I now want utilt->rest, and I now ***** when I can't get them. But the way that planking and aircamping (along with a multitude of other gay strategies) were not removed or changed, or even discouraged, along with that... Yeah.

Well no offense but this game wasn't made for you. BBrawl wasn't made to completely change brawl, this game IS brawl just a little different here and there. It is meant to replace brawl whereas Brawl + is an alternative.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I know. I will continue to give input where I can and support the project though.

I think you guys really should try to find a way to deal with both aircamping and planking in-game.

 

[JOE!]

fire breath > planking

 

[Llumys]

After playing this, all I can say is that the showcase does not do the patch justice.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Yeah, nobody cares if you prefer Brawl+ over it. This is made to be an improved Brawl; if you didn't like Brawl in the first place then why would you like this?

Also, A2ZOMG is just dead wrong about Bowser. It's mind boggling to see ANYBODY say that Bowser is WORSE than in vBrawl. Removing his unwinnable matchup versus Dedede alone is a big enough buff to make up for his grab release gimmicks as it is, but they also buffed his matchups with MK, Snake, Falco, ICs, Wario, etc as well as giving him a huge buff to his already good moves (+1 to ftilt and upB is really significant in itself). Couple that with making his Dthrow and Dair now quality moves really makes me skeptical that Bowser could go anywhere but up.

Its not of my opinion that he's particularly impressive in BBrawl, and could likely warrant another small buff or two, but to say he's lower than where he was (a spot given to him because of his unwinnable matchups) is, in my honest opinion, pretty ********.

 

[Hyrus]

This is made to be an improved Brawl; if you didn't like Brawl in the first place then why would you like this?

No tripping, no chaingrabs, no planking... err...

 

[SaltyKracka]

No tripping, no chaingrabs, no planking... err...

A better way of putting it would be to say that they're trying to make it everything Brawl should've been, but without changing physics and all that.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Okay. That's 3 characters that can "deal" with planking.

EDIT: missed the extra page... >.>
I liked brawl. I really enjoyed the game, I loved how it played. Then I came here, played nothing but brawl+ for a month... and I don't know how I'll go back. xD

Planking and Aircamping (in general, huge amounts of "gay play") are an issue. Remove them, and this becomes so much more attractive in general.

 

[daisho]

Yeah, nobody cares if you prefer Brawl+ over it. This is made to be an improved Brawl; if you didn't like Brawl in the first place then why would you like this?

Also, A2ZOMG is just dead wrong about Bowser. It's mind boggling to see ANYBODY say that Bowser is WORSE than in vBrawl. Removing his unwinnable matchup versus Dedede alone is a big enough buff to make up for his grab release gimmicks as it is, but they also buffed his matchups with MK, Snake, Falco, ICs, Wario, etc as well as giving him a huge buff to his already good moves (+1 to ftilt and upB is really significant in itself). Couple that with making his Dthrow and Dair now quality moves really makes me skeptical that Bowser could go anywhere but up.

Its not of my opinion that he's particularly impressive in BBrawl, and could likely warrant another small buff or two, but to say he's lower than where he was (a spot given to him because of his unwinnable matchups) is, in my honest opinion, pretty ********.

Bowsers D throw has almost no followups, it is good since it does about 12% iirc.

 

[Liquid Gen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvfec0v6z0U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBgECdgMPPA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kz1P2SJkdXY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXo2-VQXvrQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7czReeJh4Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdUwI5XPfro

Me vs Light.

There's one more but I'm too lazy to do it. lolol

 

[Linkshot]

I have replays of Swoops VS Me, but no recorder. (and I'll be ****ed if I don't use my music)

 

[Thinkaman]

Am I the only one who finds the term "air camping" hilarious?

I'm also a fan of walk camping and the occasional duck camping. It's a shame BBrawl has removed trip camping though. Shield camping is an old standby, but similarly when you are attacking you are probably just trying to exploit the opponent out of a clash, so you are clash camping. (Not to be confused with bait camping.) Luckily there is always camp camping.

If you are on the ledge, you are camping. If you are on the ground, you are camping. If you are in the air, you are camping. If you are grabbing, you are most likely camping. If you are doing anything except running at your opponent with a dash attack, you are camping.

Camping is the new "cheap". It's a word that has lost all meaning due to people applying it to anything they don't like.

If you want to drink the kool-aid and tell yourself that Brawl is somehow fundamentally flawed due to "air camping", whatever the crap that is even supposed to mean, feel free. Halo, SF IV, CS, SC, and Melee are out the door to your left. (Warning: All of those games feature defensive behavior too.)

 

[Fox Hater]

So you can be just as gay in BBrawl as in normal brawl. And Metaknight and Wario will be more encouraged to do so due to the nerfing of their kill moves.... Yeah.

So I tried out BBrawl today with my friend. The result: a resounding "...meh.". It was fun for a little while, checking out all the gimmicks and new things characters got, but we quickly came to the conclusion that BBrawl is too close to vBrawl for our tastes and that, after over a month of only Brawl+, we didn't feel like switching back to a game where the action was less fast-paced.

On the other hand, I'm gonna have to get used to it anyways if I can't get brawl+ to work when I go back to europe (although I may be without a friend's Wii for a relatively long time; hell, without internet too). Meh.

In general, I think what ruined balanced brawl for me was Brawl+. It spoiled me. I now want to combo, I now want my ganon to be able to approach with aerials, I now want utilt->rest, and I now ***** when I can't get them. But the way that planking and aircamping (along with a multitude of other gay strategies) were not removed or changed, or even discouraged, along with that... Yeah.

play melee

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Chain Grabs, Planking, and tripping are all fine. Balanced Brawl removes two of these to some extent just because they were bad game design (in the case of CGing, it's fine, but particularly devastating CGs and infinites are bad form) and some matchups were just so affected, in the first case. That's not to say they were particularly dominating or bad enough to dislike the gem that Brawl is.

I love Brawl with a passion, I don't care about these supposed evils of Brawl.

Also, planking and aircamping aren't even as good as you are making them out to be. It's actually amusing to me how big a deal these are supposedly.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Darn! I always liked trip camping... I guess I'm going to have to go with Diddy now. JK

Seriously, so many people have ways to beat out "Air Camping" now, it's just not funny. Exp. PKFreeze > "Air Camping"
Fire Breath > "Air Camping"

All's air camping is, is using the air to limit approaches, I'm sorry if you may have never heard of projectiles

 

[Thinkaman]

I mean, I WOULD like to implement a ledge-grab limit similar to Aether; sometime before the next version when school clams down I will try to get that working.

But on the whole, cries of Brawl being "too defensive" are old and reek of "stop throwing me!"

 

[Steeler]

water gun camping is where it's at

nothing like spitting on people to humiliate them and lower their self esteem

 

[18.15.2.15x12.9.14.11]

I have no knowledge of hacking, but I heard I could use textures alongside Bbrawl with only an SD card (and a reader, of course). Can someone instruct me?

 

[Thinkaman]

Files with texture/music support are pre-prepared for download. Use the .gcts with File Replacement as linked to in the OP.

 

[18.15.2.15x12.9.14.11]

Files with texture/music support are pre-prepared for download. Use the .gcts with File Replacement as linked to in the OP.

Both of them? Also, are there any steps after that (like I said, I know nothing about hacking)?

 

[Suntan Luigi]

I don't play Sonic, but I was thinking about an interesting idea for him: footstool to spring spike. How Hard hard is it to pull this off consistantly? Or could there be other kinds of tricks Sonic can use to land the spring hit?

 

[OysterMeister]

This is the greatest thing ever. Beyond superhuman effort. I mean, I highly doubt Spiderman could have done this, and he has freaking webbing.

However, as someone who knows nothing about these things, and who's currently working around the issue of not having a SD reader, I have a few questions:

1) Is it possible to still create/ play on custom stages in BBrawl, or does Smash Stack render all of this off-limits?

2) Do I have to boot BBrawl afresh everytime I start up my Wii, or will Brawl stay changed after the first time?

3) That thar Alternate Download, the one that advertises file replacement... Does that mean it come with new character textures? And if so, what textures does it come with?

 

[JOE!]

Yeah, nobody cares if you prefer Brawl+ over it. This is made to be an improved Brawl; if you didn't like Brawl in the first place then why would you like this?

Also, A2ZOMG is just dead wrong about Bowser. It's mind boggling to see ANYBODY say that Bowser is WORSE than in vBrawl. Removing his unwinnable matchup versus Dedede alone is a big enough buff to make up for his grab release gimmicks as it is, but they also buffed his matchups with MK, Snake, Falco, ICs, Wario, etc as well as giving him a huge buff to his already good moves (+1 to ftilt and upB is really significant in itself). Couple that with making his Dthrow and Dair now quality moves really makes me skeptical that Bowser could go anywhere but up.

Its not of my opinion that he's particularly impressive in BBrawl, and could likely warrant another small buff or two, but to say he's lower than where he was (a spot given to him because of his unwinnable matchups) is, in my honest opinion, pretty ********.

Also, A2ZOMG is just dead wrong about Bowser. It's mind boggling to see ANYBODY say that Bowser is WORSE than in vBrawl. Removing his unwinnable matchup versus Dedede alone is a big enough buff to make up for his grab release gimmicks as it is, but they also buffed his matchups with MK, Snake, Falco, ICs, Wario, etc as well as giving him a huge buff to his already good moves (+1 to ftilt and upB is really significant in itself). Couple that with making his Dthrow and Dair now quality moves really makes me skeptical that Bowser could go anywhere but up.

Couple that with making his Dthrow and Dair now quality moves really makes me skeptical that Bowser could go anywhere but up

Dthrow and Dair now quality moves

 

[daisho]

This is the greatest thing ever. Beyond superhuman effort. I mean, I highly doubt Spiderman could have done this, and he has freaking webbing.

However, as someone who knows nothing about these things, and who's currently working around the issue of not having a SD reader, I have a few questions:

1) Is it possible to still create/ play on custom stages in BBrawl, or does Smash Stack render all of this off-limits?

2) Do I have to boot BBrawl afresh everytime I start up my Wii, or will Brawl stay changed after the first time?

3) That thar Alternate Download, the one that advertises file replacement... Does that mean it come with new character textures? And if so, what textures does it come with?

Yes.

Yes.

Wut.

 

[18.15.2.15x12.9.14.11]

Wut.

Basically, he has the same question as me.

How does one with no experience hacking use texture hacks (specifically, on Bbrawl)?

 

[Thinkaman]

Both of them? Also, are there any steps after that (like I said, I know nothing about hacking)?

RSBE01.gct is the file for the NTSC-U (North American) version.

I don't play Sonic, but I was thinking about an interesting idea for him: footstool to spring spike. How Hard hard is it to pull this off consistantly? Or could there be other kinds of tricks Sonic can use to land the spring hit?

The local Sonic main here in St. Louis that I have now got the chance to play against has been hitting me out of both footstool and charged spin hits.

Having to recover higher/sooner due to fear of the spring makes me die more often to bairs than the spring itself...

1) Is it possible to still create/ play on custom stages in BBrawl, or does Smash Stack render all of this off-limits?

Custom stages are still very possible to use with stack smash if you keep them on a second SD card and swap them out. (The BBrawl SD card can be removed after the game reboots) You will need to use the .txt file to make your own .gct file that does not include the "disable custom stages" safety feature though.

2) Do I have to boot BBrawl afresh everytime I start up my Wii, or will Brawl stay changed after the first time?

No, nothing is installed in any way, so they vanish when the power goes off. Resetting the system even makes the changes go away!

3) That thar Alternate Download, the one that advertises file replacement... Does that mean it come with new character textures? And if so, what textures does it come with?

Not, it just includes the File Replacement code so it has support for any textures you have on the SD card.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Cool picture and all, JOE, but I can hardly see how it's bad. While it setting up is situational, it's a lot better than how it set up in standard Brawl. Plus, it has 12%, while not a change, is a good reason to use this throw in general. A high damaging throw with the potential of follow ups; I don't see how this is poor at all.

This being said, you were one of those who thought Bowser got WORSE than how he was in standard Brawl. I could very well just link that post a few pages back and use the same picture you did, because you are clearly mistaken on the matter

 

[daisho]

Its just interesting that you chose Dthrow. It is not one of the better buffs... Ftilt Fair and Up B are imo much more important to bowser, the d throw thing is meh...

 

[Mr. Escalator]

I mentioned his +1 damage buffs separately from the dthrow one. The +1 buffs are obviously the second most important to Bowser after the infinite and chaingrab fixes that help him. Dair and Dthrow aren't as important as the +1 package, though Dair is a load better now and I don't want to underplay it's usefulness by putting it with Dthrow. Dthrow got better without getting a damage tweak, so it was worth a mention as well in a separate part of the post.

 

[deepseadiva]

I FINALLY HAVE BBRAWL! omgomgomg

I have access to a Wii this weekend and this time I know what I'm doing! Installation was dumb easy and I've squeezed in several friendlies with my brother - my Peach versus his Ness and Kirby.

So far I'm highly enjoying her basic changes and I'm happy to report everything seems to be working as intended. The nair buff is tacking on those gimps and the fthrow buff is cinching those kills after 170%. Peach can somewhat kill now! :D

Of course this is all just basic experience against my brother (who ain't that great anyway, but he likes the lack of chaingrabs and thus only wants to play BBrawl now), but I'll be bringing this to a smashfest Monday. We have notable Ganondorf, Ness, Wario, Toon Link, and Snake mains here so I'll be sure to get a good feel for the game myself and hopefully some impressions.

 

[Llumys]

This is the greatest thing ever. Beyond superhuman effort. I mean, I highly doubt Spiderman could have done this, and he has freaking webbing.

However, as someone who knows nothing about these things, and who's currently working around the issue of not having a SD reader, I have a few questions:

1) Is it possible to still create/ play on custom stages in BBrawl, or does Smash Stack render all of this off-limits?

2) Do I have to boot BBrawl afresh everytime I start up my Wii, or will Brawl stay changed after the first time?

3) That thar Alternate Download, the one that advertises file replacement... Does that mean it come with new character textures? And if so, what textures does it come with?

1) Unsure.
2) It won't stay changed.
3) It doesn't come with any textures.

 

[Mit]

Basically, he has the same question as me.

How does one with no experience hacking use texture hacks (specifically, on Bbrawl)?

There's a couple threads on this very forum that will extensively answer your question.

Go here to learn where to put textures on your SD card (texture hacking is as simple as creating some folders on your SD card and putting things with correct names into those folders):

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=225642


Go here to find a lot of places you can find textures to download to put onto your SD card:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=232455


Further questions should probably be kept in those threads.

 

[JOE!]

Escelator:

1) Dthrow doesnt lead to crap no other than the ocassional Ftilt. the lowered KB allows opponents TO ESCAPE FASTER from hitstun, while bowser is still in lag from the throw.

he cannot even reliably do firebreath from Dthrow now due to all opponents being able to shield or tech instead of the flopping on the ground like they do in vBrawl in Higher KB dthrow...


2)yes, bowser is better than his vbrawl counterpart, but compared to other characters IMO, he is worse.

Some MU's he had were nearly reliant on grab release shenannigans of some sort, now that those are removed, and characters got buffed in slightly better ways than he did (vs Link and Samus got worse i imagine...and mother boys dont fear him anymore). I can see him being worse COMPARED to other BBrawl characters, while still being completley viable for sure.

It is just he isnt the threat he was in vBrawl (CGs agaisnt him aside)

@thinka:

if you're winning more than losing with each character....which characters are they beating/which are losing? o.O

 

[hotgarbage]

About Bowser's CGs..... are they really that big a deal? Bowser can't force a ground break after all, so a competent player should be able to air release every time while only taking a pummel or two worth of damage.

That said, I don't see why it was necessary to remove them.

On a somewhat related topic I'm assuming that it was impossible to specifically target Ness and Lucas' ground breaks, as doing so would have been superior to unnecessarily changing the entire cast's.

 

[JOE!]

a competant player will also never be grabbed, or even touched for that matter based on that logic

 

[SaltyKracka]

About Bowser's CGs..... are they really that big a deal? Bowser can't force a ground break after all, so a competent player should be able to air release every time while only taking a pummel or two worth of damage.

That said, I don't see why it was necessary to remove them.

On a somewhat related topic I'm assuming that it was impossible to specifically target Ness and Lucas' ground breaks, as doing so would have been superior to unnecessarily changing the entire cast's.

Mmmno, some other characters had freaky grab-release **** too, case in point Yoshi and Bowser.

 

[Liquid Gen]

Bowser rarely got grabs in anyway. Though I don't know necessarily why the GRs were removed, its not as if they were absolutely vital to his game. They were a nice little trick now and then against some characters, some moreso than others (see: Metaknight, Jigglypuff). But of course, its veeery hard to land grabs against the characters that absolutely fall to the GR, like the aforementioned two and Wario.

Also, about the dthrow, its not bad. It isn't supposed to 100% lead into another attack; that would be something for Falco.

It does, however, put them in a terrible position; if you condition them to shield an ftilt/jab out of dthrow, klaw. If you condition them to jab or dodge out of it to avoid the klaw, shield grab to another dthrow.

tldr: GR's aren't necessary, dthrow is good

 

[hotgarbage]

a competant player will also never be grabbed, or even touched for that matter based on that logic

That's a silly comparison <____>

"Not getting grabbed" requires you to not get hit by a (usually very fast) hitbox.

"Not getting grab released by Bowser" requires you to mash like crazy after a grab pummel.


The former is incredibly open-ended. How exactly do you avoid getting grabbed? Spotdodge when you think they're going to go for it? What if they predict it? You could just avoid the possibility all together and not get within range.... but can you realistically do that and still be effective in the match? What if your opponent catches you off guard or pulls off a brilliancy during the 8 minute match?

The latter, on the other hand, is a direct solution to the problem. How do you not get grab released by Bowser? Mash like crazy after he pummels you. Done deal.

Mmmno, some other characters had freaky grab-release **** too, case in point Yoshi and Bowser.

Well, I was talking specifically about ground releases. The BBrawl solution to air releases is great I think.