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Australian Unity Ruleset: Committee Discussion
- Thread starter Attila_
- Start date
Just a heads up, yesterday was not the Japanese stage list. They don't have cps.
S.D
Smash Master
Haven't read thread but Aus def should not be banning MK.
Just doesn't dominate the metagame or win enough tournaments here.
Would be ********.
Just doesn't dominate the metagame or win enough tournaments here.
Would be ********.
Remastered
Smash Lord
And people wander why I'm leaving the competitive smash scene in Aus lol.
This looks like it's dieing, but Kaion mentioned that you wanted to make a Unity Ruleset between SA and QLD Apollo? Lets make it happen if this doesn't get off the ground
.
This looks like it's dieing, but Kaion mentioned that you wanted to make a Unity Ruleset between SA and QLD Apollo? Lets make it happen if this doesn't get off the ground
.
zApollo
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2009
- Messages
- 839
Yes I would like to achieve this. I've already spoken at length with Kaion and Jezmo, amongst other QLDers, about how we should do this.And people wander why I'm leaving the competitive smash scene in Aus lol.
This looks like it's dieing, but Kaion mentioned that you wanted to make a Unity Ruleset between SA and QLD Apollo? Lets make it happen if this doesn't get off the ground
Once we figure something that has your support then it shall be done.
Billy is right imo,
TRY the stage set for yourself, the starters are perfect, they contain the pure fundamentals of a good fighting game (that's why they are starters... dont like FD? STRIKE IT!), look at the stage list in melee, and look at the stage list in brawl... all other fighting game communities mock us with our silly stages.
on another note, by having simple stages it actually attracts newcomers to stay in the community. If you take a newcomer to a janky stage like halberd or delfino and shark them with MK, who's going to want to return... honestly?
MK is very ******** on our current counterpicks too. with this stage list diddykong is almost more of an issue than MK.
oh yeah.
simple stages makes you learn faster (this makes you get better faster too)
did anyone arguing AGAINST the japanese ruleset even read this?
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=316853
and NO i dont mean the OP's post, i mean all of the quotes, namely the one from Tuen, he talks about something called the zone of proximital development (something i studied in uni *educational psychology*), Read it. it makes perfect sense.
Linking to posts would be helpful.
Intend to revive this thread after summersmash.
Intend to revive this thread after summersmash.
On that note, newcomers would also think 3 stages is boring as hell from their standpoint.
Dunno if was directed at me, but I don't really care much on the MK ban/legal and 3 stage/twenty million stages issues.
T'was just saying from a casual viewpoint that No items, Fox only, Final Destination won't attract any new players.
*shrug*
T'was just saying from a casual viewpoint that No items, Fox only, Final Destination won't attract any new players.
*shrug*
Leisha
Top Tier Pillow
3 Stages is pretty boring imo.
Not a huge fan of the japan ruleset, but I'm willing to try it out I guess. Dont think i'll like it myself though.
Not a huge fan of the japan ruleset, but I'm willing to try it out I guess. Dont think i'll like it myself though.
SethT
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2010
- Messages
- 627
Would it be better to have a rule which allows players not on any PR the option to use the stage-list we have now and for those ranked its mandatory to use the Japanese list?
For unranked vs ranked the ranked player must choose a stage on the Japanese list while the unranked may counter pick from the current list.
Edit: censors the word J a p o___o;?
For unranked vs ranked the ranked player must choose a stage on the Japanese list while the unranked may counter pick from the current list.
Edit: censors the word J a p o___o;?
^ Could be interesting. I mean, there's nothing inherently wrong with the stages we have now.
Also *** is banhammered because it's a derogatory word for Japanese.
Also *** is banhammered because it's a derogatory word for Japanese.
Darkwing SykeDuk
Smash Dankist
tournament level play isn't designed with "fun" as a pre-requisite you tards... and that doesn't apply to just video games either.
**** casuals
tournaments are for tournament play
meets are for ****ing around in giant mode rainbow lollipops w/e
**** casuals
tournaments are for tournament play
meets are for ****ing around in giant mode rainbow lollipops w/e
Jei Jei
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2007
- Messages
- 2,271
- Location
- Kings Park, Melbourne
- NNID
- Jei_Soul
- 3DS FC
- 1564-4103-8935
I thought the rules for Summersmash were giant mode rainbow lollipops...
I'm disappointed now.
I'm disappointed now.
luke_atyeo
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 10, 2008
- Messages
- 7,215
but dont you play casually at tourneys zac?
newcomers into the competitive smash scene dont want to play on janky stages, they want to play on FD
I generally do that anyway, the japanese stages are simpler and easier to win on, as their are less obstructions.
in melee the difference in stages is as small as roof height, not delfino plaza with 10 different variations to adapt to, honestly.... the adaption required to play on PS1 is enough, if you want to become a better player, rely on your own player skill to ge the KO.. not the stage to KO your opponent for you.
My main issue with Delphino is not that the stage transforms, but what it transforms into.
You either have sharking/juggling heaven, walkoffs, or water.
None of these things should be allowed in competitive play (especially walkoffs).
You either have sharking/juggling heaven, walkoffs, or water.
None of these things should be allowed in competitive play (especially walkoffs).
Darkwing SykeDuk
Smash Dankist
I don't actually. I play my match then wait for the next/watch other matches.
Aussierob123
Smash Champion
He's not joking.
Zac no play friendlies.
Zac no play friendlies.
The discussions gone down a different path, and one which is interesting in itself.
Do we consider smash games unique and fun to play because of the diversity in stages?
In fact the counterpicking system is a very old relic of our competitive mindset which seems to be the pinnacle issue of how people interpret the game should be played.
I reject the notion that they only work on their fundamentals, and the lack of practised stage variety on top of this is why they were 'better' than the US; considering that likely 80-90% of all decent level or better players generally only practise on starter stages (and the lesser skilled/uncompetitive players are FD lovers). Not saying that people don't practise CP stages, but it is a very minor part to it and just about everyone realises the importance of the first match of the set.
Branching from that point, the CP system in its current state puts an extreme advantage on the player who wins the first match of the set. There's not much of a way to really resolve that though without a complete rehaul of how a tournament set works, even with a dramatic reduction in stages available, whoever wins the first match of a set will have an advantage in the 3rd no matter what; if FD is available then you're likely screwing someone over by CPing it, although it's touted as a fantastic neutral/etc/etc (those people are generally idiots, btw).
In recent times the discussion on the merit of decentralising the importance of the first match has come down to full stage list striking (as in, there is no 'neutral/starter' or 'counter pick', it's an available stage) that occurs for every single match of a set after character choices have been locked in. While solidly resolving how strong a stage counter pick can be, it still leaves character counter picks; which could only be resolved if blind character picks were enforced as well (but I doubt there is much of a push for that, character CPs are pretty common throughout every single competitive gaming environment). My issues with the aforementioned system is that you're likely drastically reducing how many stages will get played in the first place and also the issue of time, especially with larger stage lists. Personally while I see the merit I dislike what the end results would most likely be - even less occasions of seeing anything other than smashville or battlefield (unless they are insta stricken by someone, but then the full stage list to pick from could very easily be exceptionally unbalanced towards specific characters) - like, no one bans Pokemon Stadium 2 against me, but I doubt anyone is going to let me pick it in a full stage list strike - if there are only 5 stages that diddy kong doesn't **** the **** out of while there are 6-7 stages he is stupid on, you're gonna get wrecked (but you guys are wanting this anyway, with the whole 3 stages thing)
If people want the game reduced to 3 stages then there will likely be a similar rift as seen between the pro and anti ban for MK. I consider varied stage skills as an important part of what makes someone a good smash player, but this opinion isn't shared by everyone. I'm generally on the boat that overcentralised stages should be on the chopping block, but most of those problems stem from just one character...
Do we consider smash games unique and fun to play because of the diversity in stages?
In fact the counterpicking system is a very old relic of our competitive mindset which seems to be the pinnacle issue of how people interpret the game should be played.
I reject the notion that they only work on their fundamentals, and the lack of practised stage variety on top of this is why they were 'better' than the US; considering that likely 80-90% of all decent level or better players generally only practise on starter stages (and the lesser skilled/uncompetitive players are FD lovers). Not saying that people don't practise CP stages, but it is a very minor part to it and just about everyone realises the importance of the first match of the set.
Branching from that point, the CP system in its current state puts an extreme advantage on the player who wins the first match of the set. There's not much of a way to really resolve that though without a complete rehaul of how a tournament set works, even with a dramatic reduction in stages available, whoever wins the first match of a set will have an advantage in the 3rd no matter what; if FD is available then you're likely screwing someone over by CPing it, although it's touted as a fantastic neutral/etc/etc (those people are generally idiots, btw).
In recent times the discussion on the merit of decentralising the importance of the first match has come down to full stage list striking (as in, there is no 'neutral/starter' or 'counter pick', it's an available stage) that occurs for every single match of a set after character choices have been locked in. While solidly resolving how strong a stage counter pick can be, it still leaves character counter picks; which could only be resolved if blind character picks were enforced as well (but I doubt there is much of a push for that, character CPs are pretty common throughout every single competitive gaming environment). My issues with the aforementioned system is that you're likely drastically reducing how many stages will get played in the first place and also the issue of time, especially with larger stage lists. Personally while I see the merit I dislike what the end results would most likely be - even less occasions of seeing anything other than smashville or battlefield (unless they are insta stricken by someone, but then the full stage list to pick from could very easily be exceptionally unbalanced towards specific characters) - like, no one bans Pokemon Stadium 2 against me, but I doubt anyone is going to let me pick it in a full stage list strike - if there are only 5 stages that diddy kong doesn't **** the **** out of while there are 6-7 stages he is stupid on, you're gonna get wrecked (but you guys are wanting this anyway, with the whole 3 stages thing)
If people want the game reduced to 3 stages then there will likely be a similar rift as seen between the pro and anti ban for MK. I consider varied stage skills as an important part of what makes someone a good smash player, but this opinion isn't shared by everyone. I'm generally on the boat that overcentralised stages should be on the chopping block, but most of those problems stem from just one character...
Dekar289
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2007
- Messages
- 6,306
Aussierob123
Smash Champion
Make it like tennis. Defend your counterpick, tie break until someone beats the other player on their counterpick and then defends their own.
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StopHavingFunGuys
i actually like this idea, but it could potentially go for a really, really long time.Make it like tennis. Defend your counterpick, tie break until someone beats the other player on their counterpick and then defends their own.
I've thought about the tennis approach before. Just means sets can go ad infinitum.
And Dekar, I'm not saying that's all smash has going for it.
And Dekar, I'm not saying that's all smash has going for it.
xXArrowXx
Smash Champion
i dont like defino, ive lost to falling through the beach as the platform lands.. two too many times
TakFR
Smash Lord
You don't seem like a very competitive player to me, maybe you should just stick to friendlies at tournaments and play casuallytvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StopHavingFunGuys
Out of interest, was the cause of the fall-through glitch ever ascertained?
luke_atyeo
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 10, 2008
- Messages
- 7,215
guess that one went over your head
also why is everyone coming up with these crazy theorys as to why japan is 'better' then the US.
isnt it obvious, did you all forget that asians are just better then everyone else at video games?
Darkwing SykeDuk
Smash Dankist
I got it like the sand in my vagina.
This doesn't seem like a very fair assertion to me
xXArrowXx
Smash Champion
Arrow, I'll counterpick your Snake there as Zelda.
earla
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2008
- Messages
- 1,422
hi,
may i ask who the new TO from qld will be?
also, is QLD and SA concrete on mk ban for the rest of the year?
i'm asking as im considering maining another character in melbourne to gain experience so i can perform more solidly out of state if i choose to. i am still 100% anti banning mk in melbourne of course.
may i ask who the new TO from qld will be?
also, is QLD and SA concrete on mk ban for the rest of the year?
i'm asking as im considering maining another character in melbourne to gain experience so i can perform more solidly out of state if i choose to. i am still 100% anti banning mk in melbourne of course.
SA will keep MK banned. unsure about OLD.
unless, of course, we develop a unity ruleset.
i was talking to a bunch of different people at summersmash, and discussioning ruleset opinions and the current metagame. there seemed to a lot of support for a 6 stage list with mk legal in singles.
something like:
starters:
fd
bf
sv
cps:
yi
ps1
lylat
and thats it. none of the stages there contain anything unpredictable, no stage supports sharking, no stage has walkoffs. the 3 stage system seems a little too bland, and takes away stages that are essentially fair anyway.
there is an issue with dsr, however, since in a bo5, all stages but one would be played on, ignoring the cp almost completely. i figure one way around this would be to ignore the 1st match from dsr, but activate dsr on cps, or perhaps just on cp stages. for example, if game one is played on sv, game 2 on lylat, game 3 on ps1, then game 4 could be played again on sv, but not on lylat/ps1.
of course other details would need to be discussed, but there was lots of support for this system.
opinions?
unless, of course, we develop a unity ruleset.
i was talking to a bunch of different people at summersmash, and discussioning ruleset opinions and the current metagame. there seemed to a lot of support for a 6 stage list with mk legal in singles.
something like:
starters:
fd
bf
sv
cps:
yi
ps1
lylat
and thats it. none of the stages there contain anything unpredictable, no stage supports sharking, no stage has walkoffs. the 3 stage system seems a little too bland, and takes away stages that are essentially fair anyway.
there is an issue with dsr, however, since in a bo5, all stages but one would be played on, ignoring the cp almost completely. i figure one way around this would be to ignore the 1st match from dsr, but activate dsr on cps, or perhaps just on cp stages. for example, if game one is played on sv, game 2 on lylat, game 3 on ps1, then game 4 could be played again on sv, but not on lylat/ps1.
of course other details would need to be discussed, but there was lots of support for this system.
opinions?