Australian Unity Ruleset: Committee Discussion

[zApollo]

For SA I nominate myself, Allens and Nova (if Nova is not interested then Ghost).

For QLD, Adept, Kaion and Jezmo.
For VIC, Jei, Attila and Dean.
For NSW, Scott, Ted and Shaya.

I am happy with Vyse (or even Nova) to be the moderator and deciding voter if need be.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

My nominations for QLD would also be AD3PT, Kaion and Jezmo.

 

[Jesmo]

I would nominate Kaion, AD3PT and Aero from QLD (Jaice if any of them say no and he wants to)
Apollo, Nova, Allens from SA (Aces if any of them say no and he would like them)
Jei, Atilla and Dekar from VIC. (Splice if any of them say no and he would like to)
Scoot, Ted and Shaya for NSW. (ZXV if any of them say no and he wants to)

Vyse as mod is perfect.

 

[Attila_]

Calling upon states to nominate reps sounds like a good idea.

For VIC: myself, jei and dean.

 

[Splice]

Jei, Atilla and Dekar from VIC. (Splice if any of them say no and he would like to)

Nope.

Earl should be on the panel.

Or, instead of having Earl on the panel, we could just watch the mystery unfold and see if MK gets banned or not consisting first and foremost of the GOOD players from each state that don't want MK legal. I would be surprised if MK was banned under these conditions yessir!

In all honesty the majority of people who are being voted in don't want MK legal (from my knowledge of them, anyway).
regardless of whatever reason that is, the people who believe MK should stay legal should have at least one (preferably like two or three) representative(s) in the committee. And again, No, not me.

Luke is so right.

 

[Jesmo]

Splice, arguing with people about their nominations is just stupid. I'm worried about attitude he has shown when he debates actually. You need people who can argue in a mature fashion. I have nothing against Earl, I've hardly ever met him but I haven't seen him argue that way so far.

 

[toki]

Which assist trophy characters should be banned? Is there like a tierlist for assist trophies?

 

[Splice]

Splice, arguing with people about their nominations is just stupid. I'm worried about attitude he has shown when he debates actually. You need people who can argue in a mature fashion. I have nothing against Earl, I've hardly ever met him but I haven't seen him argue that way so far.

Earl gets his point across and also actually MAKES POINTS. I like that criteria.
He also gets ridiculed a lot too, I think that's because the rest of the smash scene argue in a "mature fashion" as you put it.

If you think I'm arguing with everyone for not voting for Earl then you're stupid (nice work injecting insults into the conversation, you're almost as mature as Earl).

Now to discard the snide remarks...
I don't think I need to point out what is wrong with the only people being in the committee all supporting the same side of arguably the biggest issue (the MK ban). I don't have any objection to anyones votes for committee people because every individual mentioned so far would be useful in their own right I'm sure.
I just thought I'd put out that the way it's going no-one who supports MK being legal (or is sure whether they do or not) is in the panel so far. Ideally a more open sample of mindsets would be in the committee to discuss the issue. Or so I'd think? No?

Essentially, I'm sure that if for example Jezmo the exact people you nominated all made it in, it would take like 1 post each for all of them to agree to ban MK. I don't know/remember scotts opinion on the issue so don't hold me up on that, but I'm quite sure that you know what I mean. If you think it's not an issue worth bringing up as far as criteria for constructing a legit unity committee, then i apologize, I'm sure the unity ruleset committee can run smoothly and do what it wants to acheive either way, in essence my suggestion could make no difference.

My full vote for 3 players from victoria; Ledge, Dekar, Jei

Surprise, earl isn't actually in my vote lol. I would vote for Earl too but in all honesty I do actually weigh ledges ability to convey the same discussion/issues higher. He is quite smart. Dekar is also very smart and considers the big picture, Jei is reliable.

 

[tedeth]

If you think I'm arguing with everyone for not voting for Earl then you're stupid (nice work injecting insults into the conversation, you're almost as mature as Earl).

I got to this line and stopped reading due to laughter.

 

[Jesmo]

Sorry for the insult Splice. Uncalled for. But still, if you won't even let people nominate who they want then people are going to have a very tough time designing a ruleset. After I post my nominations you then posting "No" is almost as immature as my insult.

To be honest Splice, seeing who is likely to be voted onto the comittee, Metaknight has a snowflakes chance in hell of not being banned. FYI, Scoot is pro-ban.

I still stand by my opinion that twelve people is really too many. I understand that a lot of people should have their say but with twelve different sets of opinions... Well, I feel it would be easier to just have a community vote and end up with the same result. People are very rarely convinced.

 

[Splice]

I got to this line and stopped reading due to laughter.

Surprised you made it that far.
*clap* *clap*

@Jezmo: everything in your last post is correct/agreeable with me - Also I wrote no because your post brought up the issue of whether i wanted to be involved or not. I was legit saying NO i don't want to actually be on the committee. I wasn't saying your nominations were wrong lol

Anyway I think you get where im coming from anyway with this line

To be honest Splice, seeing who is likely to be voted onto the comittee, Metaknight has a snowflakes chance in hell of not being banned.

Yes I agree. That is what I'm trying to bring up, and then posing the question; "are you really ok with that? That the people being voted onto the committee are very one-minded on what IS and SHOULD be a controversial issue? They are supposed to represent the entire smash scene in some respect and I'd say there is a considerable amount of people who want MK legal, then shouldn't this be somehow reflected in the committee?"

I can't change your votes, nor do I ask you to, I just don't see how this ISN'T a problem that needs to be addressed.

 

[Leisha]

Dat elitism.

Har Har Har.

 

[earla]

what elitism are you refering to?

 

[tedeth]

Community voting threads become... uhhh... this I guess....

 

[Dekar289]

so i start asking myself why this thread isn't closed when we've already established that TOs are going to run whatever ruleset their local scene wants to run anyway.
then i come to the conclusion that... attila is hoping that creating this ruleset will somehow result in an mk ban in victoria? lol

 

[Jesmo]

Because these intelligent players who are held in high esteem shouldn't be left out of the comittee because we feel there should have more anti-bans imo. They have earned the right to be there.

Who should be replaced anyway? Simply adding Earl won't really help the anti ban cause. Majority wins Splice.

 

[Attila_]

tbh my vote would go to dean over earl, since earl is set in his decision and has made clear that he has no intention of changing his views.

this itself defeats the purpose of a well constructed discussion and argument, since one side would inevitably refuse to even consider the views of the other side.

dean generally makes valid arguments, and contributes to discussion, instead of announcing his view and expected everyone to adhither to it.

if you think i'm no different, i'll have you know that, at this point in time, i am anti-ban for mk in singles. apex changed a lot of things for me.

jei is reasonable.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Which assist trophy characters should be banned? Is there like a tierlist for assist trophies?

Clearly Starfy is top tier.

I think people should only be able to nominate people in their own state.

 

[Jesmo]

Well, I hope you argue better anti-ban then me, Atilla. I've been trying for months to make anti-ban arguments on MMGN. God sake, I even made two graphs. I haven't convinced a soul. Not even close. Not even reasonable doubt.

Also Aero, I think voting for different states may make the nominations less bias. Hmm, actually, everyone one here is pretty reasonable I think.

 

[tedeth]

Voting for other states is essential. After all, these people will be picking a ruleset for EVERYONE, not just your state.

 

[Splice]

Because these intelligent players who are held in high esteem shouldn't be left out of the comittee because we feel there should have more anti-bans imo. They have earned the right to be there.

Who should be replaced anyway? Simply adding Earl won't really help the anti ban cause. Majority wins Splice.

Majority should win within the committee (or by getting everyone to agree with one thing which has worked well in groups of like 4)

But i dont think there are 12 anti-Metaknight players for every one anti-ban player, Jezmo.
There are players who don't want MK banned who have also earned their right to be there.

@Attila: You don't solve the fact that there would be conflict by removing one side of the argument from the equation. What is to say pro-ban players wouldn't change their mind either? That is not a solution bro

Deans cool Jeis cool your votes are cool
Jezmos votes are cool
I don't have any complaints about any individuals that have been voted for so far
Why do you think that

So far no anti-ban player except Dekar (who is kinda vulnerable in that respect since he doesn't play brawl so much) and Attila (who isn't actually anti-ban lol) has been voted in
I'm pointing that out and explaining why that's a problem, not your individual votes.

If you still want to include a different perspective and also get someone intelligent for good conversation, I'm sure Ledge would still be sufficient. He's also not stubborn. I think it's a must when you're deciding you're last people after you've found 10 for the committee, you weigh the alternative perspectives on the big-issue-MK-ban that have not been represented coherently, higher.

 

[earla]

who in their right mind would remove a character from the game before atleast trialing a ruleset that has proven to work.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Well okay, I'll put my nominations for other states later.

 

[Vyse]

Just because no one in your suburb gets murdered, doesn't mean you should legalize killing people.

A fair point.

 

[Attila_]

@Attila: You don't solve the fact that there would be conflict by removing one side of the argument from the equation. What is to say pro-ban players wouldn't change their mind either? That is not a solution bro

i would like to remove people who won't contribute to an open discussion. this is not targetted at any one party.

if someone is hard-headed, convinced with their own view, and has never contributed to a rational and logical discussion before, chances are, they won't be helping things.

who in their right mind would remove a character from the game before atleast trialing a ruleset that has proven to work.

lol.

we haven't trialled an mk-banned ruleset, either.

enough of the arguments, now isn't the time. dunno how many times i have to say this.

committee talk for now.

 

[Jesmo]

They will always be very outnumbered though, Splice.

Shaya, Scoot, Kaion, AD3PT, Jaice, Aero, Dean, Nova, Apollo are all pro-ban IIRC (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not sure with people like Vyse and Ted) So yes, the majority should win and the majority will win.

I'm not quite sure what exactly anyone is expecting to happen during a discussion. Changing someones view on the MK issue is like trying to convince an Athiest that God is real during a debate (Or the other way around), Virtually impossible. I expect this would be the same with other major issues such as the LGL. People are just extraordinarily hard to convince when it comes to something like this.

 

[tedeth]

It's hard to change someone's mind, that's not what I want out of this. People are entitled to their opinions nomatter what. What we should be aiming for is people who can accept a majority decision and not harp on about it for the next 4 months or whatever until it is re-discussed.

 

[Shaya]

Is this thread becoming evil ?

 

[Jesmo]

Then what is the point of the comittee? Of course everyone can have their own opinion but I don't see what's wrong with showing another viewpoint of that argument.

People will "harp on about it" because, as we've said, people are nearly impossible to convince and so, when things go against them and they still believe they are right, they're going to keep going on about it.

 

[Ghostbone]

Voting for other states is essential. After all, these people will be picking a ruleset for EVERYONE, not just your state.

I would think the point of a state representative is to represent the views of that state and vote accordingly, not to represent the views of another state, and to that end I'd say we should only be nominating those in our own state.

 

[toki]

Is this thread becoming evil ?

Evil as in Jezmo being stubborn and just won't stop arguing and keeps trying to kill fire with fire?
Then yes. lol.

 

[zApollo]

Are there any more nominations? Anyone is welcome to nominate, and it doesn't have to include every state.

 

[tedeth]

Then what is the point of the comittee? Of course everyone can have their own opinion but I don't see what's wrong with showing another viewpoint of that argument.

People will "harp on about it" because, as we've said, people are nearly impossible to convince and so, when things go against them and they still believe they are right, they're going to keep going on about it.

Are you ****ing kidding me?

You actually have no idea what I mean or what I referring to. Great job.

 

[Jesmo]

Then enlighten me Ted, instead of responding with rubbish like that.

Toki, wrong thread mate. I haven't done that here yet, nor do I intend to.

 

[CaLibUr_1337]

I guess I'll vote myself cause no one else will lol. Jesmo and Adept would be my other two. If voting for myself is frowned upon then Kaion or Jaice would be 3rd vote haha.

 

[Jei Jei]

atyeo post

like I said back on like what... page 3?

fighting and arguing over stupid stuff.
sigh

if you do have a panel, and your talking about qualifacations, I've been around in the brawl scene longer then any of you really, have probably been to the most tourneys, have a well respected opinion (well I used to anyways) and am actually a smart and resonable person... kinda

so why not put me on?
sure I'm retired from play, but I'm on this website all the time anyways, and being retired means that essentially I have no bias towards what rules I want/think would benefit me, or whatever.

dont put scoot on there though, nothing personal against him but scoot is an immature child, just because he places well doesnt mean he'll be able to give you good opinions.

as you can see, I'm also the voice of harsh negativity, I cant think of a better way to put it, and some of you might not like it, but you need people who'll tell it how it is.

so yeah, thats my own personal recommendation for myself (rubbing my own ego)

how is someone like scoot recommended over me haha




anyways as for this mk ban, something I proposed all the way back when it was first talked about, was a trial ban.
instead of arguing back and forth about what 'may happen', why not give it a trial and see how it works in reality?
can anyone come up with a good argument against that?
not that you should, because this thread isnt the place for it

 

[Splice]

I support Luke.

@Attila, sure, that's reasonable. But there are reasonable people who support MK yet could deal with an MK ban (example Ledge) and they are being overlooked in the voting. I find this discomforting.

lol @ everything else, have fun Jezmo, reasoning with you is not something I will try again my apologies lol

 

[Jesmo]

I don't even disagree with you, Splice... You obviously completely missed the point.

 

[tedeth]

He disagrees that he disagreed.

What do you even do with that?

 

[Ledge_g2]

It's probably because I only just joined the scene again (Even though I'm ****** like everyone ). Tbh I think it gives me more reason to be in the discussion, I have a fresh and good overall picture of all that is happening. Like Splice said, I'm anti-ban yet wouldn't be stubborn to good reasons for a ban (I've already got chars in mind to main if MK-ban goes through).