At long last, Presenting GSH2, a Brawl+ Nightly Test Set and Discussion Topic

[SymphonicSage12]

Fizzy obv isn't a smash rookie

 

[JayFizzy]

wait nvm.. i dunno what happened it worked one time then it stopped working. probably just really bad DI

 

[Ryose]

Samus doesn't bomb jump when her bombs explode on impact

D: why?

Assuming this was lost in the debates earlier in the thread so I'm re-posting

 

[Perfect Chaos]

Yeah, that's something I've been wondering about, as well. Not something that's that big of a loss, but it would be nice if it made her bomb jump, too.

And what about the deal where Falco's shine not being jump-cancel-able when initiated in the air? Was that intentional?

 

[goodoldganon]

I understand and agree for the most part with the logic on no change list, but can we get official numbers for some of the following things (I don't assume any of them changed from the GSH1 but just checking)

-Hitstun
-Shieldstun
-The new frames for ADs out of tumbles

I feel those things are important enough to know, but people should be learning their characters and any specific changes they received.

 

[[TSON]]

lol @ ignored good posts and good ideas responded to with walls of rant where only the first paragraph are relevant

i wish the good wbr would tell the elitist section to cut it out

now watch as i repost my suggestion for the THIRD TIME and get trolled or irreliranted at

there's never a "oh no tson this is a bad idea because ____" it's always "SFSDSFDFSDFS ARE YOU STUPID I AM WBR YOU WANT A BROKEN CHARACTER WE DONT HOW DARE YOU THROW IN INVALID NERFS"

i have an idea. instead of messing around with IASA, lets make pk fire's pillar faster with higher SDI. its essentially the same thing except it wont feel unresponsive or easy mode. also make the first hit of it have 0.7x sdi so that the pillar still hits but escaping is easier if you SDI it. of course balance this so we can hit them if they dont DI out (and dont make that hell for them, but make it rather hard). and make the tail of pk thunder do 2%, while lowering the head to 6% (from 8) so that the tail has more hitstun and the head has less and doesnt lock samus.

that along with a slight fair or dthrow angle change (higher) and i'd be happy.

 

[Veril]

Instead of asking if something's intentional or not, it would be nice for people to actually comment on WHAT THEIR ACTUAL THOUGHTS ARE! Please.

Ex. I think the issue with not bomb-jumping when the bombs explode on impact is something that should be changed. Why can't she bomb jump in these situations?

I'd like to see bomb jumping made possible on impact, though there might be issues with the IASA on bombjump combined with explosions on impact...

SFSDSFDFSDFS ARE YOU STUPID I AM WBR YOU WANT A BROKEN CHARACTER WE DONT HOW DARE YOU THROW IN INVALID NERFS

Yeah... right... just like that. ;p

 

[FrozenHobo]

well, the ICs blizzard change is a bit odd, but i haven't really had a chance to play around and see if it can be used for other things yet. having it not suction takes away one of their pseudo CGs, but it may give them a better wall.

so far thats the biggest change that i've noticed with them. i'll be playing with some people today so i'll be able to give more input tonight.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

Okay, fine...
I think Falco should be able to jump-cancel his shine is all situations. Whether you use it in the air and land during it, whether you use it in the air and catch the reflector while still airborne and still have your double jump, or how it is now. It's just silly to have to suffer the whole 62 (?) frames of it if you use it in the air. It makes using it in the air pretty much useless, and often risky.

 

[Alphatron]

Agree with TSon on pk fire. I can't speak on dthrow since that's my bias and if I wanted to tech chase, I'd simply play DDD. I already do and he does it better anyway.

 

[Blinds]

Tourney results from my smashfest last night.

15 Entrants, GSH2

1: Arty
2: Ook
3: metroid1117
4: DLA
5: Blind
5: Oro /
7: Foo /
7: Money
9: CrimsonWolf
9: Eagleye
9: SothE700k
9: T-rAv
13: HalfDemon
13: looshkin
13: Sveet /

 

[BadGuy]

Anyway, what is the goal for Bowser in your eyes cape?

I've found that sometimes you guys make changes to characters that encourage certain play styles, so what in your mind is the most valid strategy for Bowser over the course of a stock. From approach to his first hit to punishing and finally getting a kill?

That's pretty much what Bowser does best, shield pressure, mind games, and edge guarding with his ridiculous ko power makes him a scary opponent. There really isn't much left for Bowser to be adjusted. The only thing i could possibly ask for now is fortress hogging, but I'm told that's extremely difficult, if not impossible to code. So Bowser is basically complete.

 

[[TSON]]

Agree with TSon on pk fire. I can't speak on dthrow since that's my bias and if I wanted to tech chase, I'd simply play DDD. I already do and he does it better anyway.

When I say higher I mean closer to 90 lol

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

You know, I'm sure this wasn't intentional, but I like this set even more now. Roy plays VERY well with this set. Even as a CPU. He actually managed to KO people in the match for once. XD

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

Okay, fine...
I think Falco should be able to jump-cancel his shine is all situations. Whether you use it in the air and land during it, whether you use it in the air and catch the reflector while still airborne and still have your double jump, or how it is now. It's just silly to have to suffer the whole 62 (?) frames of it if you use it in the air. It makes using it in the air pretty much useless, and often risky.

Not the BEST idea...

If every move lasted less than 10 frames the game would be mad broken. Besides, it's more silly to have a game where you don't take risks, you do that a lot in Smash. I'd try a different buff, like refreshing s double jump.

Edit: Scratch the DJ idea, I just realized it's A LOT worse than the jump cancelling.

 

[Swordplay]

got to play a little more today and test a few more things out.

The more I play the more I enjoy the build.

Somebody mentioned a MK d-throw spike on the edge. Well it happened to me except it was ganon who had the d-throw spike on the edge. After a quick edgegaurd, I was dead at almost 0%

I do like what has been done with the throws except for the d-throw spikes. I think thier cheezy but then again, there easy to avoid if you stay away from the edge like a good smash player would.

Um. Also samus bombs now perform **** on tether users when you edge guard. I don't regularly play samus but thats something im interested in. Did other samus users have a similar experience with their new bombs against tethers or and I being unconventional and stupid?

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Falco's down b doesn't seem to cancel if I try to jump out of it.....

that, or the cancel is just really late and not useful at all...


Other comments: is it just me, or do marth's aerials have more endlag? In GSH1, I could SDHF easily, but now I can't do it at all....

I love how toon link feels. His down smash having a lower angle is sexy (was this in the last set?)


Ganon down throw is cool....tech chasing mindgames + edge spike FTW

 

[Revven]

or you just suck

 

[Deleted member]

I was actually asking if it actually was the common5.pac making it freeze, but if it is, I may as well remove it from the server temporarily if everyone is having problems with it

Yes, it is, I deleted it and the freezing stopped, what was changed from the common5.pac in GSH1? Maybe you could replace it with that one. I don't have it anymore, so I can't confirm that one would work, though I see no reason why it shouldn't.

 

[Valuno]

Good **** blind, getting 5th with Pit. =)
I'm really surprised a GnW got 1st though, I guess anything goes in b+ lol.

 

[RiteToRmnSilent]

So here are my thoughts so far on the set. I use quite a bit of characters. Falco, Luigi, Marth, Bowser, MetaKnight, King DDD, Ike, and Charizard.

Falco - Well the new shine....isn't my favorite. Not because it takes so **** long, but because you can't JC it if you jump and then do the move. I mean the move was to good before, but it went from really useful to crap. It's only barely useful when your on the ground with it. Also is it me or did FF during lazer get changed a little. SHL just isn't working for me the same as it did before. Idk maybe it's me. Other than that, he feels really good to use.

Luigi - Not much feels different about him. Only thing I noticed is maybe the knockback on his b-throw might be lower? Again maybe it's just me. It doesn't seem like to many people use Luigi, but if there is any other Luigi players out there let me know if you find anything different about him.

Marth - Clearly you guys have been getting a lot of concerns about his fair. Honestly it is really weird to get rid of something a character could always do (SHDF obviously), but after using him, im ok with it. Hes still the same **** character as before, just without a wall of SHDfairs. That may not be a bad thing since now characters like Mario can approach him safer.

Bowser - Only thing I noticed was that his throws got nerfed again a little. Mostly damage as far as I can tell. But he feels like a complete character to me, nothing should be changed about him.

MetaKnight - Well nair got nerfed again, idk if it was really needed. He also seems to fall faster, but im ok with that. He still feels like a pretty solid character, even if you went a little nerf happy on him. Im not seeing anyother MK players either, but if there is maybe they can find anymore changes about him. Although I do have one thing to ask about him, can we try something different with his tornado? Since it has become useless as a move, maybe make it a little more worth it to use. Since its a tornado, maybe add some wind effects or something. Idk just a thought.

King DDD - Im not seeing anything different about him. Which is fine with me, he feels just about perfect to me. Hes still a deadly character when used right, but yet again im not seeing any DDD players.

Ike - Nothing feels different yet, but im sure there is. As of now he seems pretty good overall. Ok his fair seems slightly different.

Charizard - Im liking the speed up on his dsmash. I have been waiting for that one forever. Now the move doesn't suck. Also it seems his jab links better, yet another needed change for him. His u-throw seems to have more knockback to it, or maybe im crazy.

Overall the set is great. A few changes need some adjustments, but other than that its great. Thankgod NADT is gone, and the ledge cancelling is also sweet.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

I love this set a lot and support cape's distancing of himself from the backroom. Good initiative.

One concern however: charizard's fair. Was it changed? It feels like its harder to land or something. Also in general, I feel like my options as charizard are much more limited compared to other characters. In previous sets I thought he was ok, but now I don't feel as rawrizard as before. His jab game isn't as good as the other heavies, his recovery is easy to gimp, and all his aerials aren't as easy to land (relative to other heavies).

It's most likely because I need to learn him better, but I'd like to hear some feedback on what charizard's gameplay is supposed to feel like and if anyone has any videos/replays of themselves playing as charizard in this set so I can get some visual input on what I should be doing.

 

[ThatGuy]

Good **** blind, getting 5th with Pit. =)
I'm really surprised a GnW got 1st though, I guess anything goes in b+ lol.

HAH, I told you Ike > Pit!

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Hm...now that I look at it, Charizard's fair definitely feels as though its range has been nerfed...

although I like the faster down smash and more kb on up throw (but did down smash's kb get nerfed?)

 

[Daakun]

Not really liking Ganon's new dthrow.
Much more useful when you could pop someone up for an aerial.
If I wanted to start a techchase, I'd use side special.

 

[goodoldganon]

Not really liking Ganon's new dthrow.
Much more useful when you could pop someone up for an aerial.
If I wanted to start a techchase, I'd use side special.

My only problem with it is that it is two moves with the exact same purpose. Side-b is slower to start but it moves and does more damage I guess (I haven't tested to see if Ganon's jab is guaranteed after D-throw either) but overall it just felt a little meh. I feel like there has to be better solution to his old D-throw. Overall that's my only major complaint with the set...that and Ike's f-air is stupid

 

[RiteToRmnSilent]

Hm...now that I look at it, Charizard's fair definitely feels as though its range has been nerfed...

although I like the faster down smash and more kb on up throw (but did down smash's kb get nerfed?)

Wow I didn't even notice something new about his dsmash. I just connected with it at high percents and I think it has set kb. Seems to be a setup move now. Yup went in training mode hit mario at 999% and he went no where. Interesting...that move is completely changed. About his fair, honestly it doesn't seem much different. Maybe a little range nerf, doesn't seem like a lot though.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

Not the BEST idea...

If every move lasted less than 10 frames the game would be mad broken. Besides, it's more silly to have a game where you don't take risks, you do that a lot in Smash. I'd try a different buff, like refreshing s double jump.

Edit: Scratch the DJ idea, I just realized it's A LOT worse than the jump cancelling.

Did you even read this thread prior to commenting on my post? Or at least about the Falco shine changes?
If not, read THIS POST, at least.
But the problem is, currently, you can only jump-cancel it when you use it while grounded.

Falco's down b doesn't seem to cancel if I try to jump out of it.....

that, or the cancel is just really late and not useful at all...


Other comments: is it just me, or do marth's aerials have more endlag? In GSH1, I could SDHF easily, but now I can't do it at all....

You should read from HERE! I'm sure the first two posts from that point on will catch your attention.

 

[Kink-Link5]

While I agree a change list is unnecessary, what I would like is just, to know- What moves WERE changed. not HOW they were changed, but just to look into the moves and see if the change is a good one or bad for myself.

Or I could just look at every move, from every character, and look for angles, kills, base, IASA, frame speed, active attack data, fallspecial, and hitlag on every single one of them.

"Look for the thing in the big pile of things" sounds about accurate.

Seriously though I'd just like a list of which moves were changed, not the changes themselves.

 

[leafgreen386]

In GSH1 there was also a multiplier change, but you tested one move and assumed it was all higher.

Way 2 Math

I'd appreciate it if you actually read and responded to my posts instead of just quoting one section near the beginning and replying with a witty comment (which you're wrong about to boot).

I love the way you instantly jump to the conclusion that the error was on my end. If you actually bothered to check your own txt file you'd see that you left the multiplier exactly the same from RC1 to GSH1, while raising the additive (from 3.5, which acted like 3, to 4). You finally fixed that in GSH2. I didn't need to do any in-game testing to see that because I could easily check the txt file. Just because you don't provide a changelist doesn't mean I can't look at hard numbers.

You still haven't fixed hitstun, either. When veril tested hitstun for RC1, it acted as if it was set to .48, when the value in the code was .4865. If the .0065 part was actually being read by the code, hitstun would be slightly higher on some moves than it was, noticeably so when using frame advance. It is because of this that I believe the hitstun value is truncated after the second decimal place when read by the game.

You currently have hitstun set to .459xxx in this set (I forget the exact value), which is probably being read as .45. If you change the last "E" to an "F" you'll get .460xxx, which will be read as .46. Now if you don't want to change it, fine. But verify what kind of hitstun you're actually using first, instead of just labeling it as .46 when it's probably actually .45.

About easy throw--->kill combos.

The see your point leaf. But I disagree heavily.
Grabs in brawl are significantly more powerful then attacks. For a few main reasons.
-Super Armor (You can grab attacks)
-Can grab peoples shields
-Can running grab and pivot grab(some characters better then others)
-You can sheild grab

These are really strong offensive weapons. (Though sheild grabbing and pivot grabbing is heavily defensive). They are hard to punish, they aren't hard to pull off, and they change EVERYTHING.

You can grab attacks and suffer damage in the process? This is clearly broken. Especially compared to melee, where the attack you're grabbing wouldn't even hit; the grabbox just plain outprioritized the hitbox. I admit it looks rather silly to get smashed in the face and still be standing there while holding your opponent, but the fact of the matter is brawl is actually harsher on the grabber than melee was.

You can grab someone when they're blocking? You mean like in every fighting game ever? Yes. You can grab someone while they're blocking. This makes blocking more dangerous, and prevents players from just camping in their shields all day. If you get grabbed out of your shield, you should be dealing with some serious punishment.

Running grabs in brawl+ are still mostly inferior to JC grabs in melee. They're laggy and punishable if you miss. They're an offensive grab, but they're not a safe grab. I'm actually having trouble thinking of a character that doesn't have something they can do out of a spotdodge against a running grab.

Shieldgrabbing is far less effective in brawl+, due to the higher shieldstun. Shieldgrabbing shouldn't honestly ever happen against someone that knows how to space. If you screw up pressuring someone's shield and leave yourself in their grab range with a high enough frame disadvantage to be grabbed... you should be punished.

In smash, unlike other fighting games, there is no tech grabs. Meaning you can't tech someones grab when they are trying to grab you and it makes grabs an obscene and unfair offensive tool.

Correct. This makes grabs much more reliable as a form of damage output. But it doesn't break them. The difficulty in landing a grab against someone who knows what they're doing keeps them balanced. Smash has always been more grab-centric than most fighters, but who ever said that's a bad thing?

The fact that you can grab somebody and effortlessly kill them at whatever percent is scrub friendly. Grabs should lead to tech chases at best. but all throws to kills are honestly unfair(some exceptions on a character to character basis). Tech chase setups to moves-->death are completely fair.

The fact that you can get grabbed multiple times in a match and barely take any punishment for it is scrub friendly. Grabs should lead to short combos at worst. But all throws to techchases are honestly unfair (some exceptions on a character to character basis). Grabbing someone to throw them into a move -> death is completely fair.

...

On a more serious note, different characters have different eases of grabbing. A character like fox might come across grabs very easily, having two aerials that combo into it, as well as being very speedy and thus being able to punish more things with a running grab. Forcing him to go for techchases off of a grab might be fair, but characters like ganon do not grab others nearly as easily. I admit not every character needs guaranteed combos off of throws, but it's nothing that will break a character on its own. I'm actually of the opinion that fox was nerfed too heavily in GSH1 (and I don't even play fox in brawl+, so you can't say I'm being biased); he still gets combo'd by everyone, but he no longer has reliable options into kill moves. I haven't tried him yet in GSH2, but from the sounds of things, that hasn't changed.

Also, I never said that characters should be able to "grab someone and effortlessly kill them at any percent." A "guaranteed" combo is still escapable if you do not read DI properly. It also doesn't usually stay guaranteed for all that long (at least for kill combos, anyway). A character might have a throw that guarantees a followup against a certain character from 0% all the way up to 115%, but after 115%, the opponent starts getting sent too far away for it to lead into anything, and their uair doesn't start killing until 100%. This creates a small 15% window where this combo is a guaranteed kill. This isn't too unusual for something like this to happen with uthrows and dthrows, as they begin sending a foe too high to follow up after a while. While it is possible to string a uair in that situation, the opponent is presented with an opportunity to escape once they reach a high enough percent. This then creates a new window where the character cannot combo into anything, and is forced to just keep hitting you until their easier-to-land moves actually do start killing. Essentially, melee marth syndrome. If marth doesn't gimp you, after a certain point, he stops being able to combo into his kill moves, making it possible for you to live very long against a marth. Unfortunately, good players aren't going to let you do that very often, so it's not something you see too frequently.

I have no problem with what you said, about characters having combo's out of grabs, with or without DI. But giving that to which characters is the real discussion.

Ganon's moves all hurt, a lot of them are kill moves. He is even strong enough to kill most of the cast at earlier percents then other characters. His move-set is like snakes, a lot of the moves kill.

Now giving Ganon a grab that leads to a hit, is basically guaranteeing a kill. Is it really necessary to give a character with so many kill move options a definite kill method rather then just landing a move ( fair/dair/any smash move/ bair etc etc etc ) ?

This promotes campy play no? "Smart" players will rack up damage, shield camp and wait for a grab, then kill, rinse and repeat. Rather then out smarting and outplaying the opponent, even punishing a missed move. This easy mode **** is what we are trying to avoid am i right?

Except... not. "Easy mode" is the biggest joke to grace the smash workshop since... uh... actually, ever. It's even worse than the way people used "depth" as an excuse to get stuff in during early brawl+. "Easy mode" has essentially become synonymous with "anything that's guaranteed," as well as "anything that's effective." Which essentially equates to "anything I don't particularly like that another character can do because I haven't learned how to overcome the tactic."

Using the "anything that's guaranteed" definition of "easy mode," taken to its logical conclusion, you would be left with something similar to vbrawl, except without the locks or infinites. Wait... isn't there already something like that? Oh yeah! It's called "balanced brawl." Last I checked, we don't want BBrawl. We want brawl+.

Using the "anything that's effective" definition of "easy mode," taken to its logical conclusion, would mean every move in the game would have to do exactly the same thing, so that nothing is more or less effective than anything else. Because it's too easy to just use your good moves!

Using the interpreted definition of "easy mode," we see it's nothing more than a shallow excuse to get changes in for moves you don't like.

Now that that's out of the way...

You're wrong about "smart" players camping for a grab with ganon. Anyone familiar with ganon would know that he has more options for killing you than just a grab. Why make yourself vulnerable to being pressured when you could be pressuring your opponent with fairs and bairs while covering yourself with jabs? Hitting with any one of those would either get a foe offstage or kill them outright at higher percents, and getting a foe offstage means they're only one hit away from dying. Ganon thrives on edgeguarding, and is how he gets the majority of his kills. If your opponent leaves themselves vulnerable to getting grabbed, that's just another kill move. Do you really think it's a bad thing for a character designed to get early kills to have a guaranteed kill option out of a grab? If your opponent is dumb enough to leave themselves vulnerable to getting grabbed by ganon, they deserve that punishment.

I understand and agree for the most part with the logic on no change list, but can we get official numbers for some of the following things (I don't assume any of them changed from the GSH1 but just checking)

-Hitstun
-Shieldstun
-The new frames for ADs out of tumbles

I feel those things are important enough to know, but people should be learning their characters

Hitstun is the same from GSH1. It's probably being read by the game as .45, not .46, though.

Shieldstun in GSH2 follows the formula: floor(1.5*floor(D/3) + 6.5)
Shieldstun in GSH1 followed the formula: 2*floor(D/3) + 6
Shieldstun in RC1 and a whole bunch of sets before that followed the formula: 2*floor(D/3) + 5

Where D is the damage the move deals. For those not familiar with the notation, "floor" indicates to round the value in parenthesis down to the nearest integer, so 4 would become 4, 4.1 would become 4, and 4.9 would also become 4.

I haven't checked the AD stuff yet, so I can't tell you.

 

[Frogles]

the only problem with charizards fair is that the sourspot hits after the sweetspot sometimes so opponent doesnt get sent anywhere.

good **** overall cape. i can honestly say this is the best set so far. actually feels like a real game. all the previous sets felt unpolished to my friend and i and we were turned off from the game after a few matches. we played for a few hours yesterday and we both love the set. everything flows together really well. only complaints we both had were about MK up b spam (up b + glair repeatedly). we only played a couple of matches with MK so we could have missed something. anyway to actually COUNTER when hes comin down for the glair?

 

[SymphonicSage12]

^ avoid it and punish? It's okay to have a good move u know...

 

[The Cape]

Leaf: Math built RC1 and gameplay built GSH2.

I dont give a **** if the data is "right" or not. If it works then thats good enough for me.

Since you love math so much why dont you get started on that changelist that everyone wants since you are one of the few members of the ever disappearing (and more and more laughable) WBR.

Edit: *waits for 20 page post from Leaf in response*

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

<3 secretive non-secretive internet hate trash talk. Bio screw you, I love posting about this. Rawr.

I'm not seeing any of the changes to Charizard besides the Dsmash. Dunno what you're all seeing. o_0

 

[Frogles]

^ avoid it and punish? It's okay to have a good move u know...

really don't reply to me if you're gonna say something like this. i know how to play the game. my problem with the move is that even if you avoid it, you cant really punish it since glair doesnt have any landing lag and he can just up b again/do whatever. the reason i worded my post in such a way was because i didn't wanna sound like a whiny ****** and to maybe get a response with some actual info on the move. info like "glair doesn't have any shield stun so you can grab" or just somethin that i didn't notice while i was playing. i even SAID that we only played a couple matches with mk so its possible that i missed something. i didn't wanna make any assumptions because (im going to repeat myself again) i didnt get much playtime out of mk and i dont have anybody to play with atm.

 

[RPGsFTW]

More workable stages, good SSS, Brawl+ title screen, etc

SHOULD be in the final set. But I dont care about that or work on it. I just did the gameplay and balance.

Definitely Port Town Aero Dive+! Somebody, please, fix the cars knockback somehow. Also, will hitstun making characters auto-grab the ledge be fixed, as well as Sky World's ledges doing that in general?

Also, again, NEKO, did you talk to Fow at all about his opinion on Brawl+? I saw you trying to chat with him on All is Balls.

 

[zaf]

So i played toon link a bunch, and i found his usmash quite odd. Seems like it has more cool down or something because i cant seem to nair afterwards or even follow horizontally.

The boomerang doesn't seem any faster or slower, but did you keep iasa frames for the arrows? they dont seem to come out as fast as they were when this first was implemented. So if i am right in both cases here, ( which i hope i am ) what was added to his boomerang, if anything?

The biggest change seems to be his fair, when i tipper it, it seems to send characters horizontally, rather then diagonally up. when i hit with it close or sour spot it, it still sends diagonlly and up.

cape, whats the word on these moves?

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Definitely Port Town Aero Dive+! Somebody, please, fix the cars knockback somehow. Also, will hitstun making characters auto-grab the ledge be fixed, as well as Sky World's ledges doing that in general?

Also, again, NEKO, did you talk to Fow at all about his opinion on Brawl+? I saw you trying to chat with him on All is Balls.

What? Screw nerfing the cars knockback! Eldiran made a version of it without any cars at all! I even ported the textures for Radical Highway and Central Highway to it. Use THAT! XD

 

[RPGsFTW]

What? Screw nerfing the cars knockback! Eldiran made a version of it without any cars at all! I even ported the textures for Radical Highway and Central Highway to it. Use THAT! XD

That sounds cool too. =] But I think it'd fit better with weak cars. >_<

Add this to the final version of Brawl+! And I'd like the finished playable Waluigi to be added as well, but that might be too much to ask for.

 

[The Cape]

So i played toon link a bunch, and i found his usmash quite odd. Seems like it has more cool down or something because i cant seem to nair afterwards or even follow horizontally.

The boomerang doesn't seem any faster or slower, but did you keep iasa frames for the arrows? they dont seem to come out as fast as they were when this first was implemented. So if i am right in both cases here, ( which i hope i am ) what was added to his boomerang, if anything?

The biggest change seems to be his fair, when i tipper it, it seems to send characters horizontally, rather then diagonally up. when i hit with it close or sour spot it, it still sends diagonlly and up.

cape, whats the word on these moves?

U smash had the IASA removed due to it being nearly unpunishable on block, hits on frame six, and being barely weaker than Fox's U smash. Disjointed hitbox as well (sword). The IASA removal added about six frames (I think). This makes the move a bit more thought provoking to use in most instances.

The boomerang had a speed up on it that was removed, but should still have an IASA into arrows. If it cant be done (try 1/4 speed or 10 buffer) then we can readjust and fix that change.

Didnt change fair.