Ask KirbyKaze sheik questions (better than mango's)

[Grmo]

getting a thousand back airs out in one match would be pretty difficult.

a hundred would be tough as well.

He manages it

 

[KirbyKaze]

getting a thousand back airs out in one match would be pretty difficult.

a hundred would be tough as well.

sounds like somebody's doing it wrong

 

[Lawrencelot]

More questions (I wonder why I use this thread and not the Q/A thread though)

Do you use Sheik's upthrow into jab against spacies? Why not?
When playing against Falcon, how do you make sure not to get into an upthrow into knee? Is it possible to DI that small combo at low percents?
Do you ever use Sheik's chain, for example on Battlefield against spacies? Why not?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Do you use Sheik's upthrow into jab against spacies? Why not?
When playing against Falcon, how do you make sure not to get into an upthrow into knee? Is it possible to DI that small combo at low percents?
Do you ever use Sheik's chain, for example on Battlefield against spacies? Why not?

Here in NTSC, D-throw is better in virtually every conceivable way.

If you're at the percent where it's an autocombo, then no. At other percents, I DI away. But if you're at the percent where it's guaranteed, it really is just guaranteed. You can do jack **** about it.

No. Chain is stupid. Hilarious, but stupid. Bair, Nair, D-smash, needles, Fair, D-tilt, F-tilt, and variations of those are all superior.

 

[LooksLikePit]

sometimes I use the chain against fox/falco for lulz. If they are below the stage, I throw the chain out, and when they get near the tip of the chain, I wiggle my control stick. If you can keep it going(which is really easy) you can get mucho damago, since a tipper does 5 or 4 %

that's if I want to be reeeally safe, and they are directly below the edge. Not that useful, since dsmash can work too.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

KirbyKaze, how are you so amazing you placed higher than RaynEX at Starfurry?

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'm special.

Edit: RaynEX didn't really try to win game 1 and I flubbed a lot of stuff. He let me transform back into Sheik, for instance. However, I still lost. Game 2 was basically me gaying him with Battlefield counterpick, he would have banned it but if he did I'd just gay him with FoD and he hates FoD more. Game 3 I somehow beat him on Corneria. Super camping ftw?

I'm pretty sure RaynEX and Unknown522 are both better than me still, don't get any ideas. I did better than them this tournament, mostly because I dodged Unknown522 and he's basically my kyptonite.

 

[Drephen]

kirbykaze come to that NY tourney on the 7th

im gonna try and ACTUALLY be there this time lol

also congrats on your last tourney, who took you out?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Vwins and Bam.

So basically the two people who won it.

V___V

 

[soap]

dam frenchies

 

[Laijin]

Sheik vs Ganondorf and Jigglypuff.
Ganon seems simple and I know the Jiggs match up.
But why did I lose to Rockcrock and HungryBox?
So appearently I don't know the match up.

Someone explain the match ups for me in case I forgot anything.
With Ganon, it seems he out prioritizes everything I do.
With Jiggs, it feels like the same thing.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Just get close to Ganondorf and spam aerials. Notably spaced Bair and Nair. Chuck a thousand billion trillion needles.

Whenever he jumps into the air, remember that Ganon's moves are all very, very slow. His only adequate spacing defense against you at that point is his double jump backwards, which you can very easily compensate for. Remember to compensate for that double jump. If you whiff, you will be punished. Ganon has more range than you. His aerials additionally hurt.

F-tilt will simply knock him out of moves before they come out. Same with U-tilt. They also often link to grabs. These are good traits. Use them if you cannot get into the air fast enough or if you don't want to shield for a variety of reasons.

If you can do that you shut down his aerials pretty badly and force him to fight on the ground. And Sheik's ground game eats his alive.

==========

Against Jiggs just camp back air and needles. You can hit her out of any of her moves with your Bair very easily EXCEPT her spaced Bair. Its overextended hitbox is bigger than yours so you either have to wait for it to end or stick your Bair out before she does. For this reason, I fully endorse and support platform camping in this matchup and extremely conservative play. Run away from her.

Remember that her Bair is slow. It comes out frame 8 or something. Your moves come out within a 3-5 range and generally stay out longer. In addition, your jump is marginally faster. If she's jumping around, you will win a jumping around war simply by virtue of faster moves with more starting range. Also, her Bair only sticks forward so if you go over her, you can easily come down with a Bair of your own or even a Nair. Or Fair. Everyone loves Fair.

If she ducks like a faggot then you can do very little. Just wait and chuck needles at her or something.

Refrain from grabbing.

edit: Hungrybox is pretty good at Sheik though, he's really hard to approach and kicked my ass in Georgia pools. I don't think, if I rematched him, I would approach him at all. It doesn't seem like he wants you to be able to attack him and he's good about shutting those down with his duck tricksies and general Jigglypuff faggotry.

As for RockCrock, I think most Sheiks suck at Ganon vs Sheik or let the fact that they're getting hit out of their whiffed Bair / Fair get to them. Normally only Peach and Marth can do that but Ganon can too because of range. You can't be so far away from him or you get buttfucked. Either be really far so you can camp him, or be semi-close so you can prod at him with your aerials and tilts and not be worried about him double jumping back and doing stuff.

 

[soap]

frame perfect full jump bair can shut down almost any approach and is very safe and spammable in almost every matchup. i'd practice getting the timing down with control stick full jumps and the cstick. U can get consistent timing and maintain spacing easily.

if jiggly ducks alot dsmash, shffl fairs, and needles will still hit and can be used to keep up pressure. They will eventually shield stuff, if u can read when they will block u can actually still get grabs and they ****. Remember, only grab after uve conditioned them to think that their crouch isnt working and they think it is safe to shield

 

[KirbyKaze]

Perfect FJ Bair is broken as hell I agree. And I do spam it.

I'm just saying Jigglypuff's overextended hitbox off the Bair is actually almost as good as if not better than Sheik's Bair's overxtended hitbox and therefore trying to beat it head-to-head is not advisable. Rather, going around it in some way if it's possible or do your move somewhat preemptively.

You are right, though. You can FJ Bair on it safely enough.

In terms of ducking, D-smash used to work for it, but then Idea starting doing gay Jigglypuff things. DI + CC are the gayest things in this game. I've never been CC F-smashed by Jiggs before but it's not an experience I want to repeat.

 

[soap]

he did that to me too haha. i just kept dsmashing and it eventually breaks the CC, or they get hit with a buncha hits randomly.

iono i just refuse to be scared of jigglypuff just because she is ducking. I keep trying to hit it

and about her bair, i snake in alot of tippered usmashes under full jump bairs somehow. just dashdance in and out and try to get under the bair.

 

[KirbyKaze]

but that's cuz you have

BALLS OF STEEL

and i don't

i just need to learn when my d-smash breaks her cc.

*off to smash lab*

edit: soap you have a lot of anti-jiggly tricks it's cool.

all i try to do is land a weak aerial into a strong aerial all day when she's airborne or do single hits or needles. or nair a lot. but i nair a lot against everyone =3

 

[LooksLikePit]

I AM USING MY 500th POST TO BRING TO ATTENTION MY LOVE FOR KIRBYKAZE. THAT IS ALL.

 

[soap]

but that's cuz you have

BALLS OF STEEL

and i don't

i just need to learn when my d-smash breaks her cc.

*off to smash lab*

edit: soap you have a lot of anti-jiggly tricks it's cool.

all i try to do is land a weak aerial into a strong aerial all day when she's airborne or do single hits or needles. or nair a lot. but i nair a lot against everyone =3

i did alot of sheik jiggs with mathos back in the day, thats when i learned alotta stuff

Midwest has no jiggs anymore though. 4% switched to fox, sliq is washed up Although he is an amazing commentator. (sliq is still good, we just tease him)

 

[KirbyKaze]

I hope Sliq gets his groove back.

 

[soap]

I hope Sliq gets his groove back.

u want sliq to start hooking up with young boys on island vacations?

 

[KirbyKaze]

what happens in VLS stays in VLS

 

[soap]

kirbykaze, are there any matches recorded from u on saturday?

 

[Sliq]

Hey guys what's going on in this thre

sliq is washed up

ಠ_ಠ

 

[KirbyKaze]

kirbykaze, are there any matches recorded from u on saturday?

i fail hard on camera so no

 

[soap]

Hey guys what's going on in this thre



ಠ_ಠ

kirbykaze wants to go out, hes too shy to ask

 

[DtJ Jungle]

demo kirby!!!!!!

 

[KirbyKaze]

Sliq wanna go out sometime?

 

[Drephen]

kirbykaze, lets get lots of shiek dittos in NY so i can **** m2k when i play him

 

[Tee ay eye]

What good uses does Sheik have for b-air outside of edgeguarding?

I'm just picking up Sheik, so..

=[

</sheik noob>

 

[I.B]

use it in conjuction with needles to complete your vs. Puff game

FJ bairs are also sex.

I don't know much though so don't mind me.

 

[KirbyKaze]

kirbykaze, lets get lots of shiek dittos in NY so i can **** m2k when i play him

lol Sheik dittos sure but I suck at those

edit: Tai, you can use Bair for pretty much anything. If you SH rising Bair you can hit a ****load of stuff with it. You can FJ Bair and hit standing Puff while rising with the weak bit. You can do a ton with it, just be creative. It's really, really good though.

If I had to summarize I'd say it's mostly for poking and get the **** away from me tactics.

 

[Rubyiris]

What good uses does Sheik have for b-air outside of edgeguarding?

I'm just picking up Sheik, so..

=[

</sheik noob>

Everything, lol. It's god a long, lingering hitbox, and a ton of priority, and range. With that information, just experiment.

 

[soap]

FJ bairs are also sex.

Word.

they hit everything if u time it right.

someone actually just commented on my 2 year old friendly this morning where i start to bair spam like crazy in the middle of a match . this match was like during the week that i discovered bair and i was just trying to figure out how to use it. It turns out it hits everything fox has, sh drill, full hop nair, it dont matter.

I added some funny annotations, check it out. Please dont laugh at my recoveries, this is old :embarrass

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ln6hd4fcx8

you will notice some people will stop to approach you if you are good at this, thankfully my rush down and trapping game has gotten better over the years. Also spamming it, while semi- safe, is more effective with a mixup.

 

[ChivalRuse]

kirbykaze, lets get lots of shiek dittos in NY so i can **** m2k when i play him

Tec0 and VaNz are probably good at Sheik dittos.

 

[Doof]

I find it very hard to play well against a good Falco. I get outcamped if I try that, and I have trouble consistently approaching through the lazerz.

So I suppose my question is, how do you play the matchup KK?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Just be really good with needles and Nair and Bair and Fair a lot and you'll be fine.

Powershield --> grab is also really broken so use that a lot. Nair OoS a lot.

Falco's mostly going to try to keep his laser spacing to about 1 SHL or so during the game because that's optimal for him transitioning into an offense (he's going to do Falco stuff and juggle being on offense / defense a lot) so just try to screw that up in any way you can with distance and moving and needles and then get close enough to punish him. Once you get that spacing you should be okay because you're faster than him and have longer legs and can screw him out of his moves very easily.

Knock him down and then kill him. Space animals are easy to tech chase.

Look for laser patterns or anything of its ilk. If they have a tendency to shoot low / high variations then waiting for the highs and dash attacking under is a pretty good way to mess with their laser spacing. Alternatively doing aerials at them over the lows or SH FF wavelands (or just platform dashes) are good for getting close quickly.

Wavelanding is amazing.

Nair over lasers.

Dash attack under lasers.

Powershield.

Full jump Fair.

Needles from platforms or simple platform dashes. Aerials from platform.

SH FF Waveland.

WD out of shield.

Just keep in mind your goal is not to be right in Falco's face, just a bit away from it (see Mogwai's thing in the Falco boards on being better with Falco and it'll have the laser spacing strategy that counters laser spacing somewhere in it and learn it), and remember that when you're moving around those lasers Matrix-style with sleek ninja amazingness.

I swear this topic has been covered 10000 times.

Pillar him with Nair.

Actually the needles stuff works really, really good and Bair ***** the pants off Falco.

lol k

lol first off my style is wayyyyyyyyyyyy different from normal sheiks especially against space animals so if you play "normal" sheik style go to plank's guide. Lots of useful stuff in there.

FOX - First thing i do is concentrate on racking up percent. You cant do anything against them if they are at 0%. I don't recommend you use needles to do this because even if you hit them with a single needle, fox is toooo fast and you will probably get hit by a neutral air or something. 12% vs 3% is not in your favor.

So i have 3 things constantly in my mind. 1.) Grab 2.) Dash attack 3.) Predict there jump with a f-air. It all really depends on what style the fox is in.

For example - LuninSpectra,tink,cobol,most foxes on east coast - they are jumpy foxes. About 75% of the time when they are shielding they will jump out of it. So counter this by throwing f-airs above their head

Chillindude, PC, m2k(kinda) - they are ground foxes. They usually dance dash around the stage and shield looking for a grab most of the time. You can counter this with either follwing their dashing and do a dash attack(watch out for their counter attack if they are at 0%) or try to predict when they put their shield up and grabbing them. A good trick to do is to just keeping jabbing them untill they put up their shield then go for the grab(if they catch on and start sidestepping thats when you start up the downsmashing)

After you racked up some percent 30%-and onward. Thats when you start downsmashing. Unlike Falco, you can downsmash through ANY of fox's moves. You will trade hits with all of his aerials so start spamming away. Be careful when spamming downsmash too much though, they will wait for it and then run in for the grab (chillin lovvvvveeesss to do this.)

Ledgeguaring - Im a big ***** when its comes to this(im not as risky as KDJ/plank). I usually just wait on the edge and wait for them to over-b/up-b and downsmash if they miss the sweet spot (its really hard for them to sweet spot so dont be afraid to do it everytime except on yoshi story, doesnt work there). I will usually throw out a needle first if they are parallel with me and the stage then go for the downsmash.

This method isnt the flashiest thing ever. But it is safe and wont get yourself killed.

Dash attack - Usually you can always combo from dash attack to dash attack on space animals, Its all situational but you can usually do 2-3 dash attacks in a row depending on which way they DI.
If they DI away - dash attack again.
If they DI neutral f-tilt.
IF they DI away at high % - Go for the f-air
If they DI neutral at high % - Go for the tipper up smash. Kills at like 110% on most stages.

Tech chasing(yeahyuzzzz) - K it really is all about reading your opponent. One thing most people dont do is look at the personality of their opponent. You can tell what Silent Wolf is gonna versus that of chillindudeate2much. If you are playing someone who is always gonna be for the most flashiest/technical stuff versus someone who plans things out before they act.

If you are playing the "I'm technical so i really need to do is shine a bunch and i win" kind of person, out of a grab they will almost always tech roll away. They will usually do this 2-3 more time until they start catching on, so you can try and go for a grab and continue the chase. After that 3rd time they will probably just lay there expecting you to run again, so just do a downsmash. Really its just getting inside your opponents head and predicting what they are gonna do next.

If you are playing the "i'm gonna actually think about what im going to do next" kind of person, then you need to be careful. If you are not sure what they are gonna do next always just react to what they are gonna do and downsmash. Just get the percent in a get the **** outta there.

FALCO - Apply pretty much everything with fox with a few exceptions.

Do not downsmash spam. Falco's down-air wrecks it so dont do it. One thing i do(especially against Mathos) is too dash attack right when they jump for their short hop laser. Gotta get the percent in on falco so you can actually combo. DO NOT TRY TO OUT CAMP FALCO, IT DOESN'T WORK. Stay aggressive and dont let the guy breath.

Also, if you get a jumpy down air falco, use an up air as he is jumping up before he can use the down air. They will change their style if you get them with this a bunch.

With falco i actually go for the gay kills. I use two ways to gimp them.

1.) Back throw then immediately throw out a back air. The length of time of a back air is long so chances are they will run into it. From there finish up the job by either back airing from the ledge or f-airing them.
2.) Act like you are gonna go out there and then wait at the ledge and downsmash them. They are gonna be so worried about being gimped that they are not gonna sweet spot. Finishing up the stock the same way.




Well this is my bible when it comes to fox/falco. Hope it helps someone out there. Sorry for the poor organization, i just rambled and typed whatever i was thinking.

once you get falco on the ground, you've taken the stock.

tech chase him.

tl;dr refrain from d-smash spam, tech chase properly, and do mostly spaced aerials. i like needles, but not everyone does, so experiment with them and find a healthy amount for you. if 0 is a healthy amount then so be it.

BTW i disgaree with drephen on reading your opponent and think just training your reflexes to be awesome is superior, but drephen is probably better than me, so take that with a grain of salt.

 

[Doof]

Thanks for the help. I've got a tournament coming up next Friday and Falco is by far my worst match up.

 

[MaNg0]

wow this is still better then mines

=/

 

[NeighborhoodP]

mango let's play this week

 

[Aesis]

I bet if I played friendlies with Mango for at least two hours I would place top 5 every tournament in SoCal