KirbyKaze is my sheik hero =D.
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Ask KirbyKaze sheik questions (better than mango's)
- Thread starter Drephen
- Start date
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
Yah but he only makes a serious post every one in six times or so.
Vts
Smash Champion
lies makes serious posts when ever its really someone else posting under his name :D his twin!
rofl what.
no he actually does make serious posts alot
unless the quesiton is already answered then he'll be hillay
no he actually does make serious posts alot
unless the quesiton is already answered then he'll be hillay
SuperMatt
Smash Champion
what do you do against a fox that just dd's a little out of range of any of your attacks and then runs up and nairs you whenever you do anything?
if you run at him at all he'll nair you into a grab
and if you dash attack him he'll cc it and start comboing you
if you run at him at all he'll nair you into a grab
and if you dash attack him he'll cc it and start comboing you
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Camp better.
Periodically contrive to not be cornered and just observe the spacing and your position. The awesome thing about running away is when you convince them you're cornered but you're really not cornered and then you D-smash them or punish them for their misconception of you being trapped.
Alternatively, shino stall. Plank does it when he's cornered and he's very good about spacing his Fairs and whatever and ledgedashing back to the stage so consider just grabbing invincibility and perfect ledgedashing inwards so you're then not-cornered. It's very gay, kind of slows the game down, and boring but it's also very broken.
Just mess around with her moves so you're comfortable beating Fox Nairs, Falco Nairs, Falco Firebirds, Fox Firefoxes, and other crap with WD back F-tilt, WD back jab, D-smash variations, grabs, etc. You have to be really comfortable doing that stuff to do anything good with her.
Scrubs like to jab a ****load so practice ccing those all into JC grabs. It's very gay. CC shield grab is too slow against fast people because that extra frame or two matters a surprisingly large amount. You should be able to CC into shield grab though, although for different reasons. CC shield and then the options out of shield are good tricks to pull out periodically.
Learn how to Nair OoS really fast, practice hitting standing Jigglypuff with it. If you're doing it right you should produce a strong hit in training mode.
Thanks I'm pretty amazing I think.
Check the front page?
I'm special.
I'm my hero too.
You're misinformed.
Agreed.
No I'm actually serious when I tell people to kill themselves.
Just run forward and make him think you're attacking and then WD back into F-tilt or something.
Alternatively just space an autocancel aerial really quickly like a SH Fair (Fair at the peak of your SH and then FF) and then see what he does afterwards and react accordingly. F-tilt SHOULD NOT be automatic this isn't Brawl where SH Fair autocancel buffer F-tilt with MK is pretty much LOL vs half the cast, if he gets close and shields or whatever you get ***** for doing F-tilt automatically. You probably won't have the time to WD back F-tilt after a SH Fair forward because of Fox's broken speed, so jump back with something or shield or whatever. Sheik has plenty of outs to his shield-pressure BTW, notably Nair OoS so keep that in mind.
Alternatively, run into his DD camp and boost grab him through his running.
He should not be able to just free-reign run around like that, your moves have more priority than his do and more range. Control the space better. Approach and make him back off. If you're running out of space too quickly to be able to do WD back crap then read what I posted at soap.
soap
Smash Hero
dont approach from the air too much.
run at him and predict his attack then space it out.
to approach just randomly run up and grab or downsmash
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I don't get why people approach from the ground so much with Sheik.
Well I do but her aerials are too good. Ranged legs / slap b!tches.
The only real catch with approaching from the air with Sheik on Fox is that you have to hit his shield or him or you can get dd grabbed but like that's not really a tall order given they're probably just as interested in hitting you as you are in hitting them.
Just don't chuck them out excessively and waveland out of empty SH FFs a lot, double jump back accordingly, etc. And you can get close enough to hit them pretty fast.
Well I do but her aerials are too good. Ranged legs / slap b!tches.
The only real catch with approaching from the air with Sheik on Fox is that you have to hit his shield or him or you can get dd grabbed but like that's not really a tall order given they're probably just as interested in hitting you as you are in hitting them.
Just don't chuck them out excessively and waveland out of empty SH FFs a lot, double jump back accordingly, etc. And you can get close enough to hit them pretty fast.
How come I can't edgeguard fox's illusions with Upsmash fair like KDJ?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Because Foxes since then learned how to sweetspot illusions.
And a few of them also learned to DI U-smash.
And a few of them also learned to DI U-smash.
-RedShadow
Smash Ace
What do think of the Marth matchup?
Alot of people say it's easy but I generally have a hard time against him. It's like if I try to approach I get grabbed, and if I try to space I get hit.
Alot of people say it's easy but I generally have a hard time against him. It's like if I try to approach I get grabbed, and if I try to space I get hit.
Marth is gay.
KK tell us how to **** marth =D.
The match up isn't easy.. but it is generally in our favor.
KK tell us how to **** marth =D.
The match up isn't easy.. but it is generally in our favor.
Dark Hart
Rejected by Azua
KirbyKaze, will you marry me?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
It's stupid and easy if you play gay.What do think of the Marth matchup?
Alot of people say it's easy but I generally have a hard time against him. It's like if I try to approach I get grabbed, and if I try to space I get hit.
When I play I.B or Europhoria I just dash attack underneath their Fairs and spam needles and running around action until they have to go airborne. If they absolutely refuse to go into the air, and resolve to play the waveshield / dd camp game, grab them. Grab if they're in shield, boost grabbing is very good for this reason in fact every Sheik should be able to boost grab into DDing and waveshield camping and gauge the distance because it really does **** the strat altogether.
Also, charge needles whenever possible. Needles are stupid.
If Marth is trying to FJ aerial on me, I do a lot of aerials out of my shield.
To edgeguard just mash buttons there's really nothing Marth can do against good Sheik edgeguarding. Ledgehop Bair lets you regrab the edge and there's nothing he can really do about that if you just mindlessly time it properly. There's a bunch of stuff you can do but ledgehop Bair regrab edge is a good one to start with. Needles kill his momentum so abuse a lot.
Refrain from tilting unless he's airborne. You can F-tilt him before his Fair swings down and then proceed to **** combo him with Fair. Possibly more if he DIs bad but if they're good it's just Fair.
After D-throw, if he DIs behind you, turn around and U-tilt really really fast and proceed to combo him from there at low percent. Unless they SDI the U-tilt, which nobody does even though they should, you should be able to mash buttons and produce a 35%+ combo after that. Obviously does not work with low platforms and stops working at medium-low percents (35+?).
CC ***** his ground game other than grab. If you CC his Fair and he did it really far you can usually assume he's going to dash away and dash attack / boost grab after him. If you CC his Fair and he did it really close you can assume he's going to dash behind you and run after him that way with dash attack / boost grab.
I would advise against jabbing Marth. His CC ***** you and the only way he can win is by getting enough grabs provided you just DI away from his Fairs and CC them properly. Jabbing gives him a way of getting them. I guess if the Marth sucks and doesn't CC grab sure whatever. But then you probably don't need it to beat them anyways?
Possibly.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I was going to make a useful post but then I forgot what I was going to say.
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
KirbyKaze's last six posts:
1. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6522475#post6522475
2. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6522346#post6522346
3. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6522324#post6522324
4. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6522268#post6522268
5. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6521936#post6521936
6. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6520360#post6520360
Post four is the helpful one.
1. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6522475#post6522475
2. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6522346#post6522346
3. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6522324#post6522324
4. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6522268#post6522268
5. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6521936#post6521936
6. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6520360#post6520360
Post four is the helpful one.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I do think that there are more useful things like pivot f-tilt though.
Most people can't get a decent consistency on beating out fox aerials with WD back f-tilt lolz. Learning a harder timing, spacing, and distance on something that's substituted with something much, much easier seems silly to me.
I guess in the long run pivot f-tilt could be one of the next steps in Sheik, but I doubt it. Or, rather, I think other (more useful) stuff will come before it.
Most people can't get a decent consistency on beating out fox aerials with WD back f-tilt lolz. Learning a harder timing, spacing, and distance on something that's substituted with something much, much easier seems silly to me.
I guess in the long run pivot f-tilt could be one of the next steps in Sheik, but I doubt it. Or, rather, I think other (more useful) stuff will come before it.
S.R. XXVII
Smash Ace
What's the best/most creative way to use needles against a Falcon on stage?
Oh, and Soap is the best Sheik ever. Period.
Oh, and Soap is the best Sheik ever. Period.
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
Shorthop reverse needle charge bair?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Turn-around needle store into Bair is pretty awesome in general. Bair in general is hard for Falcon to get through.
Beyond that it's just like needling vs Fox. Do it to make him approach, charge them sometimes, stop his approaches sometimes, hit into his dd if he's far, etc. Jump onto a platform with needle and then drop with an aerial defensively / offensively and all the usual crap.
edit: needle --> grab.
Beyond that it's just like needling vs Fox. Do it to make him approach, charge them sometimes, stop his approaches sometimes, hit into his dd if he's far, etc. Jump onto a platform with needle and then drop with an aerial defensively / offensively and all the usual crap.
edit: needle --> grab.
S.R. XXVII
Smash Ace
Coolsville. Any one found a use for the whip yet?
So like, I heard this Drephen guy is gonna make another combo vid, ja?
So like, I heard this Drephen guy is gonna make another combo vid, ja?
Witchking_of_Angmar
Smash Lord
KK what do you think of my pivoting guide? My guess is it needs more pictures beating up evil gay fox, but there's not much I can do in that department.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
It's informative.
I've been pivoting with ICs into F-tilt inconsistently for a while so it helped a bit with the physical technique bit.
MSpaint makes everything better but in your case it's not really necessary.
I've been pivoting with ICs into F-tilt inconsistently for a while so it helped a bit with the physical technique bit.
MSpaint makes everything better but in your case it's not really necessary.
3747373796432
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2008
- Messages
- 242
I approach with FH double fairs and SH fairs but keep getting shield grabbed. Am I getting the timing on the auto-cancels wrong?
soap
Smash Hero
after lots of actual gameplay testing with the autocancel i discovered that it is very hard to space on things and not get grabbed. Because u have to hit too high on the shield and they can grab almost before u even land. it can be done but the spacing and fastfall timing must be very particular and perfect, and its annoyingly hard to do
just go ahead and fastfall first then pull the move out inches above the ground and lcancel. There is ridiculously more amounts of ground range this way and with the quick lcancel u are more than safe if u space it right on a shield.
It is much better pressure cuz in my case my friend tries to wavedash out of shield away from any opening and he would slip away from the high AC fairs but once i started doing them low it would reach out and catch him better.
Autocancel is still good as a defensive fair if u think they are going to try and pick u out of the sky, particulary fulll hop fastfall autocancel fair has been good. then u are a little safer if they dont end up coming, but it is much more situational and less useful than low fairs.
FH double fairs are very unsafe, even if spaced right. i do it sometimes if i tried to call a jump and they didnt, then i am just trying to get back down and sometimes throw out another fair.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Yeah I'm pretty sure he changed it because of not wanting to maintain this thread.
soap
Smash Hero
that lazy ***
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Just be really good with needles and Nair and Bair and Fair a lot and you'll be fine.
Powershield --> grab is also really broken so use that a lot. Nair OoS a lot.
Falco's mostly going to try to keep his laser spacing to about 1 SHL or so during the game because that's optimal for him transitioning into an offense (he's going to do Falco stuff and juggle being on offense / defense a lot) so just try to screw that up in any way you can with distance and moving and needles and then get close enough to punish him. Once you get that spacing you should be okay because you're faster than him and have longer legs and can screw him out of his moves very easily.
Knock him down and then kill him. Space animals are easy to tech chase.
Look for laser patterns or anything of its ilk. If they have a tendency to shoot low / high variations then waiting for the highs and dash attacking under is a pretty good way to mess with their laser spacing. Alternatively doing aerials at them over the lows or SH FF wavelands (or just platform dashes) are good for getting close quickly.
Wavelanding is amazing.
Powershield --> grab is also really broken so use that a lot. Nair OoS a lot.
Falco's mostly going to try to keep his laser spacing to about 1 SHL or so during the game because that's optimal for him transitioning into an offense (he's going to do Falco stuff and juggle being on offense / defense a lot) so just try to screw that up in any way you can with distance and moving and needles and then get close enough to punish him. Once you get that spacing you should be okay because you're faster than him and have longer legs and can screw him out of his moves very easily.
Knock him down and then kill him. Space animals are easy to tech chase.
Look for laser patterns or anything of its ilk. If they have a tendency to shoot low / high variations then waiting for the highs and dash attacking under is a pretty good way to mess with their laser spacing. Alternatively doing aerials at them over the lows or SH FF wavelands (or just platform dashes) are good for getting close quickly.
Wavelanding is amazing.
Geist
Smash Master
KK, does playing this game without pants make you better?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I always play gamecube without my pants. And with axe body spray and beer. I hope that's okay.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
So you're good with me being unfaithful then? Awesome.
Hazygoose
Smash Lord
marc! you can beat pc, he's a scrub!
actually, seriously...i found his falco more challenging (before he quit) and we both know what i'm supposed to be able to do to falcos. and it's not "get jv 2-stocked." grr, PC...grr.
hey, kirbykaze, you play a lot more good marths than me, and that's like...my least favorite matchup, so if you have any advice vs. dashdancing that would be great. half the time they try to bait my spotdodge it works, and a uthrow at low percents gives me owies. i started nairing out of shield as soon as i saw a marth run to me at close range, and that seems to work well when i'm not falling for tricks like a ******, but i'm not sure if you have any good alternatives. any advice would be appreciated :D
also vs. falco, don't forget to mention: L2edgeguard
then you're fine
actually, seriously...i found his falco more challenging (before he quit) and we both know what i'm supposed to be able to do to falcos. and it's not "get jv 2-stocked." grr, PC...grr.
hey, kirbykaze, you play a lot more good marths than me, and that's like...my least favorite matchup, so if you have any advice vs. dashdancing that would be great. half the time they try to bait my spotdodge it works, and a uthrow at low percents gives me owies. i started nairing out of shield as soon as i saw a marth run to me at close range, and that seems to work well when i'm not falling for tricks like a ******, but i'm not sure if you have any good alternatives. any advice would be appreciated :D
also vs. falco, don't forget to mention: L2edgeguard
then you're fine
LooksLikePit
Smash Ace
KK I got this for you <3
http://i41.tinypic.com/2ns84fa.jpg
also, do you think that needle camping against an aggressive marth would be good, then when he tries to jump and fair you, you run away a little bit, shai drop, then bair? It seems good to me, but I have never actually tried it.
and btw I am sherigami
http://i41.tinypic.com/2ns84fa.jpg
also, do you think that needle camping against an aggressive marth would be good, then when he tries to jump and fair you, you run away a little bit, shai drop, then bair? It seems good to me, but I have never actually tried it.
and btw I am sherigami
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
If they're punishing your spot-dodge my response would be to not spot-dodge.
Out of shield do WD or something.
I already covered what to do about DDing, just don't panic and start shielding and attack into it with a lunge move like her dash attack or boost grab.
Here's a post somebody I know made and it sums up why I suggest boost grab and dash attacking into them pretty well and how to do it...
Needles are good for forcing them into the air. I generally try to avoid being airborne vs Marth for too long but if you can poke him with a needle it's easy enough to slap him if he's airborne. Or hit into his shield if he's grounded and proceed from there. The aerial you hit Marth with if he's coming up after you doesn't matter really so long as it hits him. Again, I don't think needling in the air is super advisable against Marth for a long period of time though. Needle him a bit and as soon as he comes after you either hit him or get yourself to the ground ASAP.
I wouldn't be able to comment on Shai Dropped Bairs because I can't do them perfectly yet in games. It sounds okay.
edit: Pikachu <3
Out of shield do WD or something.
I already covered what to do about DDing, just don't panic and start shielding and attack into it with a lunge move like her dash attack or boost grab.
Here's a post somebody I know made and it sums up why I suggest boost grab and dash attacking into them pretty well and how to do it...
Basically, if they're dashing back and forth, just tell them to screw themselves and chuck your body into it. You'd be surprised at how effective this is. Obviously you have to do other stuff because that's punishable, but Marth's moves are slow and take a while to arc down and in front of him to protect him.
Needles are good for forcing them into the air. I generally try to avoid being airborne vs Marth for too long but if you can poke him with a needle it's easy enough to slap him if he's airborne. Or hit into his shield if he's grounded and proceed from there. The aerial you hit Marth with if he's coming up after you doesn't matter really so long as it hits him. Again, I don't think needling in the air is super advisable against Marth for a long period of time though. Needle him a bit and as soon as he comes after you either hit him or get yourself to the ground ASAP.
I wouldn't be able to comment on Shai Dropped Bairs because I can't do them perfectly yet in games. It sounds okay.
edit: Pikachu <3
Europhoria
Smash Lord
The dash dance scenario looks awkward like that because the areas are so close to each other, but in the usual camping process the players are never close. What usually happens is
<---X------------> <--X----------->
or
<-------------X--> <-----------X-->
You have to aim for around the back of the range or even further back. Sheik and Peach both lunge forward with their dash attack so it becomes easier to throw people off guard by covering a lot of space so quickly.
Vs. Marth >_> Grab, don't do weak moves into CC, edge guard. Off stage is really hard for Marth because of Needles/Ledge n-air/b-air
<---X------------> <--X----------->
or
<-------------X--> <-----------X-->
You have to aim for around the back of the range or even further back. Sheik and Peach both lunge forward with their dash attack so it becomes easier to throw people off guard by covering a lot of space so quickly.
Vs. Marth >_> Grab, don't do weak moves into CC, edge guard. Off stage is really hard for Marth because of Needles/Ledge n-air/b-air
Lookslikepit - That has to be the cutest pikachu picture I have ever seen..........
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and I feel very weird saying that.......
....... .... ...
and I feel very weird saying that.......