Ask KirbyKaze sheik questions (better than mango's)

[Sago]

1. are you going to smym9?
2.Will you play a 1mm with me at smym9 :D
3.Your drunkin luigi is way 2 good
4.How do people not punish your dsmash more often?

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

kirbykaze-your usmash tech chasing is hella sexy drephen just says you shouldn't cuz it isn't gay enough for his taste
also it can lead to pretty much anything.... literally, i can't think of a single move that usmash cant combo into on spacies. you can usmash and then charge a dsmash and it combos lol
that's just good if you're by the edge though otherwise more usmashes or some uairs for a combo is prolly the best option. or regrab if you don't have enough time for an usmash or uair. but you already know this lols.

very few shiek mains have won tournies so mad props to whoever does

dude amsah/nihonjin wins huge tournies all the time using only sheik

Spoiler

(almost, he sometimes cp's spacies with marth on fd, but he's like 95% sheik)

thanks for the advice a few pages back btw, i need to think about that kind of stuff more.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Usmash, Transform, bair. That'd be sweet.

 

[KirbyKaze]

lol u kant cuz of prop 8

Jokes aside, do you ever notice any trends in things people do? Like... a lot of people tend to techroll away from the ledge... stuff like that? Any basic mindgames that apply pretty much across the board that you're willing to share?

Anyone who is anyone will be aware of their most basic tech patterns and be able to change them almost seamlessly at any point during a game and mess with prediction-based tech chase (which is, ultimately, why I think mechanized reaction-based tech chase is superior in virtually every way because it doesn't require you to keep up with their predictions; you already have to do that with normal fighting I don't see why you'd want to do more work than you need to).

Having said that, when bad space animals DI behind Sheik on D-throw, they tend to tech in place.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Well I mean when I watch pros play against Ken's Marth or Mew2King's Marth, after the dthrow to the edge, they techroll away from the edge like... 95% of the time and get grabbed again. I mean obviously there's a reason for this, but I was just wondering if there were any other little possibly one-shot things like that.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I misinterpreted what you said.

Most bad people tech roll away from the ledge in general and try to put as much distance between you and them as possible (they DI the same way they're going to tech). But this only really works on bad people.

In the example you cited, it's somewhat awkward to pick at because they really don't have anywhere to go (most of the people you're talking about are space animals). Either they tech in place and get D-tilted, offstage, against M2K's super homo edgegaying Marth or they go back into his loving arms. There's enough time to turn around D-tilt and MISS them if they tech to the middle and still turn around and grab them. It's one of those solemn judgment moments where there really is no real way out. I guess if you were super awesome you could DI offstage and edgecancel into an edgehog or something, but I'm pretty sure he can still D-tilt you for that if he's good (I could be wrong).

For people who do it vs Ken's Marth, I'm going to guess the vids are very old. And (or) the people don't want to get gimped.

 

[Hazygoose]

i've seen it asked before quite a few times but i'd like to get dreph-dawg's POV.

once marth gets you up in the air, what's the safest way to DI and come down that takes the least amount of damage and doesn't leave you in a bad position...because trying to spot-dodge away from a good marth utilting puts you in a poopie position on like, FD.

also, it was like a year ago that stole a trick i saw you use vs. peach a while back, CCing the first part of the dmash while recovering so you get to the other side of the stage and can actually get on the ledge...
but how do you handle marth/samus when they nair/bair you as you get back to the stage? it feels like unless they mess up, they can do it from as soon as i can't double jump back on to the stage until i die...which is a long time and a ton of percent :\ haven't exp. it in a while but quite along time ago playing cort/watty it happened and i never really learned why or what i could do about it...

:D

 

[Eggz]

I found my way here via name search and all I really gotta say is Drephen is a big ol' cutie pie **** machine.

suck my **** mango

edit: alcohol johns

 

[Lawrencelot]

Question about techchasing:
When playing Fox for example, I often see that after my downthrow they tech away from me, so I just dash towards them in line with their tech and shieldgrab or jcgrab them again. But an other fox I play almost always techs back towards me, so when I know he's gonna do that I dashdance and jcgrab him again. But what's the best way to cover both options? In case the fox does a different direction than he always does. After a dthrow, is it best to dash towards them and then either continue your dash or dashdance back, or is wavedashing a better option?

 

[soap]

drephen wavedashes forward

i think its quicker to foxtrot forward, then u can turn back quicky if they tech behind you.

if they tech in place, shield then grab, if they tech forward, do a quick pivot back then dash attack forward

 

[soap]

there are a lot of good players who play shiek (KDJ,isai,forward) but none of them main sheik
those that do (me, nihonjin,Cj,) are awesome

who's sheik style do u like more, Nihonjin, or CJ?

ive been going through vids and clips for like a week and i still cant tell who i like more.

They kinda play very similar i think

nihonjin is slightly more flashy..... and he wins, so i guess id go with him.

Jack has been around forever though.... ive always considered him the most textbook effective sheik player.

anyways, its up... check it out:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=215962

 

[darkatma]

i love all 3 of those sheiks
<3<3<3

 

[LooksLikePit]

hey drephen

what do you do when a fox is running up to you and sh nairs?


also

is bthrowing near the edge then waiting for the fox to illusion, then usmashing good?


in sheik dittos how do you DI the dthrow so you don't get chaingrabbed?


when you are sheild pressuring(in general) how do you keep it up? i usually just find myself dsmashing and then there is no more pressure

 

[KirbyKaze]

also

is bthrowing near the edge then waiting for the fox to illusion, then usmashing good?

I'm not Drephen but I can answer this one lolz.

No, it's not. It's DIable (the Fair setup), it doesn't hit below the edge, and it's slow. There are much, much better things to hit with. The only good thing about it is that the hit window is so large (her arms stay out for a good time) and that her arms are invincible during it, but beyond those qualities there are better moves nearly every time.

KDJ only did it because he has an U-smash fetish. With, like, every character.

Also, at the edge of a platform or stage D-smash is shield pressure. You can sort of pull a Peach and knock them off sometimes into the second or third hit, or simply force them onto the ledge into a punishable position (Sheik can make getting up from the edge horribly impossibly difficult).

 

[LooksLikePit]

what are some better options to edgeguard fox after a backthrow then? I like to turn around needle, but they can fastfall so I can't hit with needles. Any suggestions?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Run off FF DJ Nair is okay.

It covers some stuff.

One counter to that is for them to double jump air-dodge. The counter to that is waiting for their air-dodge to wear off and hitting them off with Bair/Nair/D-smash/anything and then killing them because they lack a double jump so that's pretty good.

Another thing they do is DI the B-throw away and sweetspot Illusion but you can edgehog that.

You can throw out F-tilt if you want. Not much lag so you might catch non-sweetspot Illusion on the off chance they do it and still have time to get into position to edgeguard other stuff.

Simply edgehogging after often screws a lot of Fox recovery stuff.

Gimping is just covering or predicting a bunch of their options and screwing them over for trying to do it. And then killing them.

There's plenty of stuff to do.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Run off and reverse needle cancel. Then if they drop, you can hit them with a rising fair for the gimp. If they try to Illusion, you can doublejump into a nair or bair. If they airdodge up, you can punish with a uair to fair or land on the stage and dsmash or something.

Just a thought. Really though, I'd watch and see what they did, then react accordingly. Be prepared for the Illusion sweetspot, because that's going to be their fastest option, most likely.

 

[soap]

Run off and reverse needle cancel.

after a bthrow? have you ever tried this? i have and believe me it is too slow.

if you are bthrowing at the ledge just wavedash back fastfall double jump back air, then grab the ledge. This covers most options, so if you are confused just do that.

 

[soap]

so drew, i noticed you arent getting ***** by jiano anymore, do you know something about the matchup now?

u think u can beat dark next time?

also, give your views and tips on the matchup cuz i still dont like playing falcon, im not terrible at it, but i could be better.

 

[BlueFoxXT]

Drephen, are you going to Genesis?


That is all.

 

[LooksLikePit]

hey guys, I want to thank the sheik boards(Kirbykaze/soap) for giving me tips. I just went to a tournament and ***** foxes by using your edgeguarding tips lol. thanks again.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

kirbykaze and soap might be too good at sheik

 

[O2Ash]

Drephen, you do play Luigi right? May I ask, what are your general strategies agaist them? Especially if they use Down B and smashes a lot? Needle camping works fine in certain stages but it's still hard to defeat him. Thanks!

 

[KirbyKaze]

hey guys, I want to thank the sheik boards(Kirbykaze/soap) for giving me tips. I just went to a tournament and ***** foxes by using your edgeguarding tips lol. thanks again.

Taking advantage of how stupid so many Fox players are is a crucial key to defeating them.

Good work young grasshopper you're one step closer to mutating into a horrible insectoid monster capable of destroying whole buildings.

Against Luigi just space aerials and WD OoS / shield grab (mostly WD OoS) whenever he attacks your shield with anything that isn't F-tilt basically. His Down B is terrible against Sheik, if they're using it at all you should be ****** them in a horrific, hilarious manner. It's easy to WD OoS on, it's stuffed by needles, the first hit is CCable into shield to avoid taking the launch on the second, the second hit often lets you Nair Luigi in his lag at low percent before he can get away, etc. It's horrible against Sheik.

Not to mention the lag often lets you punish it with WD OoS even if they try to space it on your shield...

 

[O2Ash]

Thanks KirbyKaze! When I fight that Luigi guy, he'll approach most of the time, which is good since it always give me the advantage and also some time to dmg him with needles. But what are some good ways to approach Luigi? Spaced Bairs? or just faking out some attacks?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Bair, Fair, D-smash, grab, and shield are all good approaches against Luigi.

Needle --> Fair from a platform is also acceptable as an approach as it applies a nice amount of pressure.

Needle --> Nair from a platform is also very acceptable if you do the Nair as low as possible on their shield.

 

[KirbyKaze]

kirbykaze and soap might be too good at sheik

Incorrect good sir I'm actually terrible.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

you sir are incorrect about my incorrect statement

 

[soap]

you sir are incorrect about my incorrect statement

ok that cancels out and makes no sense.

 

[brendol]

drephen do you have everybodies techs memorized or something? i see you wavedashing and grabbing so quickly.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

it makes sense...

 

[Vts]

best approach against samus and peach, they seem to be my hardest match up since they own ICs

 

[KirbyKaze]

Best approach is to not approach.

Bair is also acceptable.

On Samus shield is also acceptable.

 

[Vts]

Best approach is to not approach.

Bair is also acceptable.

On Samus shield is also acceptable.

i'm telling you we should marry and train out kids to do just this, bair on people's shield.

or am i the only odd one who carries a shield around

 

[KirbyKaze]

We should ride off into the sunset. With long semi-disjointed legs as far as the eye can see.

Fair is a good approach if spaced against everyone fyi.

 

[Binx]

Yeah, vs Peach and Samus, needles and well spaced fairs and bairs, I see a lot of sheiks who mess up fast falls with her because he short hop is so high and the timing is different with her than other characters because of it. Also if Peach is floating you can sometimes trick her with an utilt or well spaced forward tilt into a fair, I like the needle, needle, run away needle combo, vs samus and peach, wrecks them pretty good. VS peach grabs destroy her as long as you smack her really quick cause she can nair out earlier than most characters.

 

[soap]

my problem with running away is that they will eventually corner you. and it will not be on terms that you want. I am more comfortable with aggresive spacing and dictating the situation myself. Not that i dont run away ever when i need to.

 

[Oracle]

Ok kirbykaze, I need you to help me.

I suck because I only get to play against crappy scrubs. How do I practice on my own with sheik?

Also you're awesome

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Wh... When did the topic change?

 

[soap]

kirbykaze is prolly the most knowledgeable sheik player on these boards, good move drephiano