Q&A Ask about Pikachu! Hosted by Axe and N64! feat. dkuo!

[N64]

Marios are tough. I end up tilting a lot too. Dtilt outranges anything they have, and ftilt is decently safe with spacing (as it's fast and if either mario is outside of it they can't really get in fast enough to punish it). Fsmash can also be good if they're trying to get in, but it's laggy enough that it is punishable if they predict and dodge or hang outside range then wd forward -> jab/dsmash. This goes for almost all pika's matchups, but you really want to get under them. The marios have nothing that beats uair, so if you can position it you can uair juggle them for a while. Also, uair spike hurts their semi-bad recovery. Jolts can work ok, they cancel out their projectiles or force the marios to either shield (grab opportunity), cape (laggy and often punishable by CCing the jolt to dtilt/fsmash), CC or otherwise get hit (where you can space fsmash if you predict CC or punish if it hits), or jump over it (and now you're below them yay). You can also I guess go for fancy superwavedash stuff if they cape the jolt (by then quickattacking into it), but that's obviously risky.

In terms of things to watch out for: The marios' utilt beats your everything (except maybe dair) in the air. I found this out while playing dogysamich and it made me sad, because it really hurts your approach game. If they start doing that, jolt more as you approach or position your jumps to land further in front of them to bait an utilt and punish. DON'T GET GRABBED, if at all possible. Marios can do so much to you out of grab.Also always try to sweerspot the edge (unless they're ledgehogging) or recover above them, to avoid being caped.

But yeah, it's really tough imo.

 

[Renth]

N64 ***** me

true story

 

[N64]

N64 ***** me

true story

nsfw

<3 Renth. We need to play again.

 

[AXE 09]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFN9Lnr3Ijc&feature=related <------EPIC

EDIT:

so i finall beat forward at a tourney for the first time evar!!! i dunno how i won, maybe he wasn't at the top of his game? check it out^^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riFcU3PJ5Ww

but then i ended up getting 2nd place cuz i got wobbled to the max o.O those matches are posted, but.... i don't want you guys to see cuz i got so freakin destroyed lol. wobbles literally went super saiyan on me

 

[XIII ways to die]

No. We are (electric) mice.



It can work vs. some. I don't think anything's guaranteed on most floatys, except at specific small damage ranges I haven't bothered to figure out (i'd guess around 60% for most). However, you can use it to force them to react. They either have to tech it (which sets up techchases), or aerial (you can often shieldgrab), or jump. If they jump, you can follow with an aerial immediately, or rush below them and start upairing and trying to juggle them.



Not me : /



I'll save my 'bair is awesome, if situational' speech for if anyone wants it, but on to the actual questions.

1. I explained dthrow on floaties earlier, and that same thing can be used for heavier chars at higher percents, or force these heavier characters to tech at lower percents. Neat trick, you can dthrow fastfallers and they often won't tech, expecting to have to DI the uthrow. Once they hit the ground, jab to reset them, and either regrab or usmash/fsmash/whatever. Other throws are useful as well of course. Uthrow chains on fastfallers, and can set up simple aerial combos (usually just uair or double jump nair) on others, but most notably is they can bait jumps, so you can steal their jump with a uair and attempt to chase. Fthrow chains on almost everyone at really low percents (like <10%) so you can use that to get a few percents in, and then later fthrow->dtilt or dash dance and try to bait a punish attempt. Bthrow is super good for setting up edgeguards. Yeah.

2. Downsmash is useful but not spamable. I know I use it too much. It sets up stuff pretty well, has decent priority, can catch people that don't expect it to last as long, and can be used as a relatively safe techchase option. But, it's punishable. It has decent lag after it, is shieldgrabbable as long as the opponent is patient enough to wait through its entirety, doesn't have much shieldstun, and easy for a lot of characters to outrange and punish. It's useful if used when you're right behind someone, as they can't shieldgrab you and don't often have enough time to do much else out of shield to you (again, this doesn't apply to all characters) and if you catch them then the reward is pretty worthwhile. If you rely on it though, it becomes very predictable and easily punishable.

3. It looks really awesome. I guess i'm not sure on what your question is exactly. Is it viable? Yes, though I think usually you're safer doing something else. It's very laggy and takes a decent amount of time to set up, which you can usually spend chasing the opponent or limiting their return options with jolts and then punishing their remaining options. Its knockback, unless you hit with the hitbox around yourself, is also not very stellar and usually only helps the opponent recover (although admittantly racking on a bit of damage). How should one do it most effectively? Get the timing down. If you want to do it off the stage and not have it hit you (creating a wall in front of the edge effectively), then just practice practice. Jump out, jump back and immediately down b as you start your second jump. Notice how far you need to jump out to both get back with the second jump and also ensure thunder doesn't hit the stage. You are however allowed to publicly show great excitement when you successfully edgeguard someone with thunder.

4. Pika does alright against falco, considering his position relative to falco on the tier list, but he is by no means a counter. Pika can get around lasers to an extent, you're really mobile, but you don't often have a good approach option from it. Usually you end up finally getting through the lasers and are now in an awkward position from which you can't do as much as you'd like to falco. His lasers can still pick away at your poor shield and help him approach you. And once you get in close, he can still combo you pretty well. This match you'll mostly be focused on gimping and juggling. The problem though, is setting these up as pikas. Lasers still are really annoying for pika.

rong on 2 and rong on 3. the down smash is spammable........... the thunder is so not laggy when used right. thunder cancling theres nothing like it. the thunder can be use to punish so many things grabs instant double thunder or tripple in the right cercamtance. and you want to know how to spamm the down smash keep up-b cancling to the down smash if you do it right pikachu has no lag on the up-b. and for any whos fixin to say you talking about brawl no im not im talking about melee and you can cancle the foward-b

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

yeah you can side-B side, but it's useless use then jungle japes fully charged on the side platform facing towrads the middle.

ANd dude you can't come in here telling every single pikachu pro they are wrong you look like a douche. Tell us how you are doing these up-B cancels and same for down-B we all want to know and axe form the last thread your to good not pikachu he sucks(just kidding).

Down-smash is VERY lagy

 

[AXE 09]

rong on 2 and rong on 3. the down smash is spammable........... the thunder is so not laggy when used right. thunder cancling theres nothing like it. the thunder can be use to punish so many things grabs instant double thunder or tripple in the right cercamtance. and you want to know how to spamm the down smash keep up-b cancling to the down smash if you do it right pikachu has no lag on the up-b. and for any whos fixin to say you talking about brawl no im not im talking about melee and you can cancle the foward-b

i agree that you can edgecancel your up-b and forward-b... you can even edgecancel them into a downsmash, but against a good player, spamming your downsmash or your thunder is usually a bad idea.

lol insane crazy guy, you're funny pika's the best

 

[N64]

Regardless of what you're doing before the downsmash, the problem is it is too laggy afterwards. It is easily shieldgrabbable if they shield and punishable if they avoid it. It is not a safe move and thus is not spammable.

I'm not sure what you mean by instant double or triple thunder. Please explain further.

 

[toasty]

I once got baited into doing a dsmash.

In that time:

I got Falcon Punched.



Dsmash is not spammable.

 

[AXE 09]

I once got baited into doing a dsmash.

In that time:

I got Falcon Punched.



Dsmash is not spammable.

LMAO dude i'm so sorry!

i don't think i've ever had it THAT bad, but i've definately had a crapload of knee's in my face after doing a downsmash

 

[toasty]

It was Cyrain! That guy's too good XD

But the point is: ZOMFG IT'S LAGGY @_@

 

[festizzio]

Every time I miss a down smash against a Falcon I lose that stock.

 

[toasty]

LOLLLLL @ ^^^

so much truth.

PS: you need to DI harder down and away XD

 

[JPOBS]

how do i sweetspot the ledge with b-up and do all those b-up tricksies on the ledge?

i just picked pika up today.

 

[festizzio]

how do i sweetspot the ledge with b-up and do all those b-up tricksies on the ledge?

i just picked pika up today.

i believe you have your answer

 

[JPOBS]

i believe you have your answer

im not sure what that means but im just inquiring about the pika specific AT's. I read the Pikachu guide and its honestly catered towards complte newcomers to the game and doesnt help someone who knows the game in and out but just wants to pick up a new char (me) at ALL.

and since there wasnt any other threads on pikachu AT's, i thought i'd ask here.

eg. how does axe do the ledgehog where he's standing on stage, b-ups horizontally off the stage, then b-ups to the ledge, every time i try it i land back on the stage.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I found a legit use for dair for pichu so I,m geussing it's better for pikachu due to the plus range. their dair goes through platfroms and are hit were they shouldn't I hit sheik under yoshi's story platform which is a WTF thing. I once got the ground hit and it lead into d-smash. But this just gives you more to do when stuck on a platform and vs vs sheik pichu could get sheik roughly up to 62% from down-throw tech chase(incudes di) so I think pikachu should be able to tech chase her with d-throw to about 50% or a little lower. And sheik can chain throw pichu to 58% with pichu diing the best he can so I think pikachu would be stuck till at least 72% most likely higher

 

[toasty]

how do I shot upB?

you have to space it just right so that when you upB horizontally off of the stage, you can angle the second part of the upB diagonally downward, but since you're right around the ledge [if you did it right], you'll upB into the ledge.

Sweetspotting in general? The easiest way to sweetspot in general is from any angle ABOVE the ledge. When you're going to the ledge, if you're holding down [as with any character] you'll pass right through the ledge.............and die.

 

[festizzio]

Yeah, you have to go diagonally downward. Most of Pikachu's sweetspots are intuitive, as in you just press towards the ledge and you'll probably go right towards it and grab it, but they just take a lot of practice. That's what my post was implying since you weren't very specific.

 

[AXE 09]

i know toasty already explained this, but i'll just restate:

after you do your 2nd quick attack diagonally downwards, make sure to immediately let go of the joystick, because if you continue to hold down, you won't grab the edge, you'll just go right through it

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Hey axe you going to pound 4? I might but my chances look bad right NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW. yes I did just do that. But yeah your pikachu/falco/____(hopefuly someone esle who needs a huge boast in their metagame) are to legit. Could you explain to me why your pikachu wins vs good players minus tailspikes. I have good mindgames and spacing and stuff for my pichu from what I,ve seen(not trying to say i,m good, because I have a mental block there).

But what kind of ways do you mix up? mentally and move wise. I change up what I SHFFL, B, up-B(platfrom/on ground) and random mindgames like slow walk side-B. Mentally I play run around, fast pace, or hard to predict like mindgames. I watch my foe and stuff I don't get mad. I,m just wanting to go farther abd I,m not lieing about anything or skill wise because, it would be like like skiping a step and I don't lie.

 

[JPOBS]

alright cool thanks

 

[AXE 09]

Hey axe you going to pound 4? I might but my chances look bad right NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW. yes I did just do that. But yeah your pikachu/falco/____(hopefuly someone esle who needs a huge boast in their metagame) are to legit. Could you explain to me why your pikachu wins vs good players minus tailspikes. I have good mindgames and spacing and stuff for my pichu from what I,ve seen(not trying to say i,m good, because I have a mental block there).

But what kind of ways do you mix up? mentally and move wise. I change up what I SHFFL, B, up-B(platfrom/on ground) and random mindgames like slow walk side-B. Mentally I play run around, fast pace, or hard to predict like mindgames. I watch my foe and stuff I don't get mad. I,m just wanting to go farther abd I,m not lieing about anything or skill wise because, it would be like like skiping a step and I don't lie.

LOL man you're too awesome hahaha

well sadly, i can't go to pound 4 ='( i really wish i could but there's like a 90% chance that i'm not going. *cries*

lol but ummm.... gosh. it's kinda hard to explain.... i'm not too sure how to answer all of your questions lol. i don't use any particular techniques, i just kinda like.... idk lmao. i play like ALL the time, and i guess by just playing so much, i've learned how to make better decisions, how to mix things up, etc. etc.

at first, i was kinda crazy about the gimps, but as i kept going on through my smash career, the people i practiced with stopped falling for the gimps, so i learned how to combo and stuff with pika... so now, even in tourney matches, i focus more on comboing to death instead of gimping. gimping is still important though, but i don't think you should base your whole game off of that. don't be too obsessed with it, you can't rely on it

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I know you can't focus on one thing, because you won't be as flexible as ice climbers I don't focus on grabs sometimes I don't even get a good grab in a whole match. The people I play will go pure attack or play as roy and F-smash me 70% of the time. You can understand why that's good for a pichu player, It lets me be creative with HOW I get in like I said if I did pichu has a few more tricks than pikachu. So I can mix them up and stuff. I really didn't expect a good solid answer, but thanks. THe more I play more I begin to think maybe I don't suck, but chances are i,m really good and I won't believe it

 

[wool]

I got a Pika question (and I just want to bump this awesome thread lol).

When I am going to approach with a nair I try to aim my nair so that I sort of overshoot it and land behind the opponent, so if they shield the nair I can follow up with a rising uair. But a lot of times what happens is I approach with the nair, but they WD backwards and so my nair lands a little in front of them (but it still hits). If they shield, I sort of have no idea what to follow it up with. My instinct is to dtilt, but it's usually too slow and sometimes I even get shield grabbed. If I WD back I sometimes get punished if they WD OoS and follow up with an ftilt or even a grab. I'm not that creative lol so I am just wondering what you top pro Pikas do

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

For starters your being predictable, My brother used to grab me out of my SHFFL as pichu because at that time I only SFFFLed and ran up and attacked, I got better and harder to predict and I got some mix-ups, but pika's nair has a SMALL bit more range and more chances to get punished for it than pichu( by like 1 frame more and not as good coverage, but about the same), forget what i said about pikachu's nair

But yeah mix-up your plans I know for a fact pichu and pikachu both have be fast and hard to predict and random in movement or do what axe is doing. Is there any mix-up appraoches other than SHFFL and full hop B. Really I half wish I was good as pikachu so I could relate it to pichu, but I meant ply as pikachu in a year or 2 and see how good I am.

 

[wool]

I'm not saying I always shffl when approaching, I am just wondering what to do when the scenario I described above happens

 

[TresChikon]

Just overshoot the nair even more so that a reverse WD isn't enough to space it. This isn't just Pika, it's good for any char.

 

[N64]

Eh, i usually will either try to shield, grab, dtilt, or rapid jab, depending on the other character and/or what I think they will do. You can also just try to dash away, pika's dash is pretty fast. Most characters will try to grab you unless they have a better oos option. Jab can sometimes hit them before the grab connects, dtilt covers most slightly slower options, grab works if they have enough shield stun or are slow to react, and shield (if you have time) covers all non-grab options.

There's nothing that's surefire against everyone though. You're probably going to get grabbed/usmashed/something'd. : /

Edit: yeah, super overshooting can work well too, it's just often more difficult because you have to be even closer before you jump, and if they just shield it you don't have any continuing options. That isn't necessarily that bad, just means you have to approach again.

 

[festizzio]

Usually if I mess up my spacing I just waveland back, then go from there.

 

[TresChikon]

Hell, they might even get smash happy and whiff if you do that.

Free ****!

 

[wool]

Haha alright thanks for the tips, i'll get to work

 

[tdk_Samurai]

what do you guys do when you fell you have hit a platue or slump?

 

[wool]

you mean in getting better? I take a break, and when I come back my WDs and other ATs are a lot better, i donno why

 

[TresChikon]

Stop playing Melee for a month so you can kick your bad habits and start off anew.

However, feel free to practice tech, since practicing technical skills doesn't cause any habitual patterns.

 

[AXE 09]

funny thing is, ever since i've started, i don't think i've ever taken a break haha

but what i like to do is play other characters. once, i thought i reached my limit with pikachu, so i just started playing with fox for like 2 weeks strait, then i went back to pikachu and i was like OMG i love him again lol

 

[wool]

Haha I try not to switch much because then I mess up the AT timings (like WDing etc) but it obviously works for you lol

 

[AXE 09]

ah i see. well fox and pikachu kinda have the same timing for their wavedash. but then again, falco and pikachu have a different timing for their wave dashes, but falco's still my 2nd best character lol

so ummm.... i think my combo video will be released within like the next 2 days lol

 

[toasty]

OMG Axe yessss ^_^

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Axe that's sweet "Be careful with that axe." I hope someone got what I just said if it's buggin you type it in on youtube.