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Ask about Pikachu! Hosted by Axe and N64! feat. dkuo!

Discussion in 'Pikachu' started by N64, Jul 5, 2009.

  1. N64

    N64
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    So, here's the general questions thread for the pikachu boards. Axe and I (and anyone else who wants!) will answer your questions concerning the rat. Having trouble vs. sheik? Don't know how quick attack works? Think bair is terrible and has no use? Wonder how Axe is so amazing? Ask any questions and we'll try our best to give you a super helpful and awesome answer.

    Editing first post to make it more new-player friendly. We have so many new pikachu's coming in! That's awesome!

    First I'd like to direct you to my guide from a couple years ago on Pikachu. It's pretty neat and a good starting point to learning melee Pikachu.

    You can also check out PictishFreak's guide. It's also excellent, just pretty dated, so a fair amount has changed/been discovered since he made it.

    Another good resource is a (kind of long) tutorially thing Pikachad and I did that you can watch. If you have the time, I suggest you check it out.

    Also, Soju has made a Facebook Group with a bunch of Pika discussions. Feel free to join!

    Next, I'll be adding an FAQ section, which may take a while, but it'll be right here, so check back later! For now, check out Soju's thread that links to a number of informative posts in this thread!
     
    #1 N64, Jul 5, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2015
    MettaMatt likes this.
  2. tdk_Samurai

    tdk_Samurai
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    Q1: why is pika so cute

    Q2: why doesn't n64 have more vids up

    Q3: how do you feel about fair being a main approach attack? I use it alot now, and the reason for this is cause although I know it doesn't really knock back or combo into anything, but I feel its a somewhat safe attack because it hits more than one time, so they have to shield it, and if you space and Lcancel, they can't really punish you that well, so you can slowly and safely rack up damage. But compared to most pikas here, I am a begginer, so I'm sure you guys have more experience than I do.
     
  3. -Chad-

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    I so got that first one.


    It's because he's yellow and fuzzy.
     
    hi im 47 likes this.
  4. AXE 09

    AXE 09
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    A1: look at the above post =D

    A2: yeah what's up with that, man! darn it N64! give us our vids!!!

    A3: personally, it's extremely rare that i use Fair. about the only time i use it is when i'm coming up from the edge. i'll do an edge hop fair, then either grab, down smash, or down tilt, depending on how far away he is from me. whenever i try to approach with it, i always get crouch cancelled into something, like a shine or peach's amazingly stupid down smash lmao. personally, i don't use it much, but maybe other pika players have different experiences.

    BTW: N64 is amazing!!!!!!!
     
  5. N64

    N64
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    About sexy N64 vids:
    I don't have many up, I knows. First, I'm not good enough to make it to the vid-recording level of tourneys. Second, I don't really have means of recording vids atm. Here's what i got though:

    (I may edit later with tags and such)

    Combo Vids:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fKZ7SGx83U
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4301608368839347780 (compilation combo vid, my part starts at 2:38, but you should watch the whole thing cause it owns)

    BFWNY3 (Feb 2007)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANYtW_VwXQY ***
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb6XZbvGL4E ***
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YmGZkHymRk
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wQrIi8zb_M
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbX_DlIg-Uo ***
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KkYkeoz8Lg ***
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukCAk69rVBA ***
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6NfMYb0T0g
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnJXWI4tNks
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKhuR3t-cUU (I use my scrubby sheik here, but it's part of the set so yeah)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLAGjyyo_TU
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjT-M9cayMk ***
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkLHY8Albc4

    Cataclysm 3 (March 2007)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwCIFFI1J2k ***
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k4L6KOVC8Q ***

    Friendlies (Oct 2007)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twprPQgjp8Q ***
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_IcEhx7sRU
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ih-tJNNGJg
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci-6Sgc0CaU
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_aE5FUgrcU

    BFWNY4 - Low Tiers (Feb 2008)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4rDeq0rQxc
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FM1kJtX5FM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixa47Bro7m4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvX71tlKzE4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4iKYGY5yh8
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVKwY0xe9K8
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uWdWPWx3TQ
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IJtS598K6Y
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Sk9U_cvdeU
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OTz6xn1Bak

    Viva La Smashtaclysm (May 2008)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU6RKDmaACo
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuzsJDJD_Rg
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6-Izng-LF8 ***
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2nxRko6ffk ***
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XBgX3-xUno


    Also, on the subject of fair. I use it mostly as an aerial combo move. It can work alright for approaches, but it has awful priority and will often just get crouch-cancelled into something painful. If you do use it as an approach, try to go through them so you land behind them I guess. If they're floaty and don't cc it, you can get grabs out of it, which is nice. Just cc owns it.
     
    Dr. Briefs likes this.
  6. tdk_Samurai

    tdk_Samurai
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    yea, thats usually what I try to do is land behind them, I actually try to land way behind them and sometimes lcancel into rolling away just to get that extra distance.

    And fair has little priority, it felt to me that it was one of pikas more priority moves, and thats part of the reason I feel safe approaching with it. But I'm not calling you a liar, just saying I learned something today
     
  7. N64

    N64
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    If you want priority, go with dair. That at least trades with everything that isn't disjointed. And the aerial hit isn't really crouch-cancellable by anyone. It takes a little time to come out, yeah, and has a bit of lag so you'll still have problems with it getting shield-grabbed, but it is pretty nice otherwise. Jolt, nair, and dair are my most common aerial approaches, probably in that order.

    Edit: oh, a neat thing i'll do with fair sometimes: if someone is in the air and about to land, you can often fair them into a grab or usmash. Since they're in the air, there's no cc, and they can technically smash DI it, but no one does (they'll usually just be normal DIing away attempting to avoid a nair or something). For instance, if you grab a fastfaller on the top platform of any of the tri-platform stages, start the uthrow chainthrow and they DI off the edge of the platform, you can run off with a fair and it will catch them (providing they're not at high enough % to jump/aerial first) and you can regrab and get a couple more chainthrows off, or throw -> usmash.
     
  8. -Chad-

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    I don't like using Jolt as an approach anymore. Against some characters I dislike using it at all...if they predict it coming some characters can capitalize on it.

    I like waiting and f-tilting :D
     
  9. N64

    N64
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    Depends on the character. Some I'll just use it in an attempt to force them to me. While anything outrpioritizes it, occasionally you'll catch people, and if you don't then you haven't lost anything (unless it's like fox/falcon and they just run under it) Or if you're on a large enough stage, you can jolt, run after it, and stop just outside of their ftilt range. If they swing at it, run in and try to punish. Or run in after the jolt and shield. They swing at it, you shield, then usmash out of shield or wd->grab if you have time.
     
  10. Zig-Zag!

    Zig-Zag!
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    Q: Are we not men?
     
  11. Ocho(*8*)

    Ocho(*8*)
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    How reliable is down-throw vs. floaty characters. At high percents I notice it sets up CPU's for upsmash, but I'm assuming they just suck. But still, can you follow it with an aerial, lets say vs Jiggs at 100?
     
  12. tdk_Samurai

    tdk_Samurai
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    Q: which pikas are going to genisis?
     
  13. slartibartfast42

    slartibartfast42
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    *nods* I honestly never use that move.

    Some other things:

    1. Pika has really good followups out of grabs, right? (either that or my crew doesn't know how to DI) But I'm having trouble getting the grabs in the first place. Any good setups for that? Or should I just be approaching with grabs?

    2. What's your opinion of downsmash?

    3. Any tips on using thunder to edgeguard?

    4. How is pika vs falco? I'm considering using him for that matchup, but that's just because he seems to be able to get past the lasers easily.
     
  14. N64

    N64
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    No. We are (electric) mice.

    It can work vs. some. I don't think anything's guaranteed on most floatys, except at specific small damage ranges I haven't bothered to figure out (i'd guess around 60% for most). However, you can use it to force them to react. They either have to tech it (which sets up techchases), or aerial (you can often shieldgrab), or jump. If they jump, you can follow with an aerial immediately, or rush below them and start upairing and trying to juggle them.

    Not me : /

    I'll save my 'bair is awesome, if situational' speech for if anyone wants it, but on to the actual questions.

    1. I explained dthrow on floaties earlier, and that same thing can be used for heavier chars at higher percents, or force these heavier characters to tech at lower percents. Neat trick, you can dthrow fastfallers and they often won't tech, expecting to have to DI the uthrow. Once they hit the ground, jab to reset them, and either regrab or usmash/fsmash/whatever. Other throws are useful as well of course. Uthrow chains on fastfallers, and can set up simple aerial combos (usually just uair or double jump nair) on others, but most notably is they can bait jumps, so you can steal their jump with a uair and attempt to chase. Fthrow chains on almost everyone at really low percents (like <10%) so you can use that to get a few percents in, and then later fthrow->dtilt or dash dance and try to bait a punish attempt. Bthrow is super good for setting up edgeguards. Yeah.

    2. Downsmash is useful but not spamable. I know I use it too much. It sets up stuff pretty well, has decent priority, can catch people that don't expect it to last as long, and can be used as a relatively safe techchase option. But, it's punishable. It has decent lag after it, is shieldgrabbable as long as the opponent is patient enough to wait through its entirety, doesn't have much shieldstun, and easy for a lot of characters to outrange and punish. It's useful if used when you're right behind someone, as they can't shieldgrab you and don't often have enough time to do much else out of shield to you (again, this doesn't apply to all characters) and if you catch them then the reward is pretty worthwhile. If you rely on it though, it becomes very predictable and easily punishable.

    3. It looks really awesome. I guess i'm not sure on what your question is exactly. Is it viable? Yes, though I think usually you're safer doing something else. It's very laggy and takes a decent amount of time to set up, which you can usually spend chasing the opponent or limiting their return options with jolts and then punishing their remaining options. Its knockback, unless you hit with the hitbox around yourself, is also not very stellar and usually only helps the opponent recover (although admittantly racking on a bit of damage). How should one do it most effectively? Get the timing down. If you want to do it off the stage and not have it hit you (creating a wall in front of the edge effectively), then just practice practice. Jump out, jump back and immediately down b as you start your second jump. Notice how far you need to jump out to both get back with the second jump and also ensure thunder doesn't hit the stage. You are however allowed to publicly show great excitement when you successfully edgeguard someone with thunder.

    4. Pika does alright against falco, considering his position relative to falco on the tier list, but he is by no means a counter. Pika can get around lasers to an extent, you're really mobile, but you don't often have a good approach option from it. Usually you end up finally getting through the lasers and are now in an awkward position from which you can't do as much as you'd like to falco. His lasers can still pick away at your poor shield and help him approach you. And once you get in close, he can still combo you pretty well. This match you'll mostly be focused on gimping and juggling. The problem though, is setting these up as pikas. Lasers still are really annoying for pika.
     
  15. -Chad-

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    @tdk- I ammmmm

    Now leave me, I must read N64's wall of text and master all of his teachings.
     
    Stake likes this.
  16. tdk_Samurai

    tdk_Samurai
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    good luck chad
     
  17. defsithe

    defsithe
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    the best laid plans of mice and men often go awry. i think thats the quote. read that novel too long ago.

    a good falco rapes me. and decent falco is do able. lasers+he can combo like a beast= me losing and counterpicking marth.
     
  18. festizzio

    festizzio
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    What do I do against laser camping falcos/foxes? (especially falco)
     
  19. V3ctorMan

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    Update axe went all Pikachu at Genesis.. got 33rd.. Beat Jman's Fox, Lucky, I'm sure i'm even missing some...

    AXE.. you are the world's best Pikachu.. Period...

    I can't w8 to do dubs w/u again! lol...

    Dammit i miss you too... ***..i'm bak in 6 days! n n
     
  20. #HBC | Mac

    #HBC | Mac
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    Nobody loves me

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    chad got 33rd as well
     
  21. V3ctorMan

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    awww.. yeah... axe told me that chad was amazingly amazing! =D

    but..

    I remember him saying his pikachu was awesome to watch too.. so i'm sure axe is hella impressed w/him..

    but.. Axe is my vote! not sure on everyone else.. but def mine! =D
     
  22. N64

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    good **** chad and axe.

    hella impressed as always.

    keep reppin da pika.
     
  23. tdk_Samurai

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    yea, good **** chad and axe, I can't say how awesome you guys did, I expect top 16 from both of you at genesis 2, ;-) (but not really ;-), cause I have faith in you both.)

    and good **** fest for making it out of pools, not an easy accomplishment.
     
  24. -Chad-

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    me and axe are pika pals now.

    updates later.

    Also, I was underwhelmed with Genesis to be honest, you guys didn't miss a whole lot
     
  25. festizzio

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    I thought it was amazing. >_> there was a ridiculous amount of hype to live up to, and i think melee finals did live up to that hype.

    btw i'm gonna practice a LOT so next time we do double pika teams I'm not killing myself every other stock lol.
     
  26. N64

    N64
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    Chad + n64 is the best pika team.

    Chad rapes while I refuse to die.
     
  27. festizzio

    festizzio
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    we should all meet up at the next tournament and rotate pika partners and go around challenging people to teams mm's. :)
     
  28. -Chad-

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    @n64- Hahah it's insane when me and Axe teamed. He was the rapist and I was the one who didn't die.

    @festizzio- The lack of tv's killed it for me. 17 tv's is completely unacceptable for almost 300 players to fight over. There were so many many many many players I wanted to play so badly, but I couldn't cause I'd have to wait in line for like a freaking hour to get a set in. And since most of the big names wanted to be played by everyone, they got to have the most tv time which further hurt the circulation of players on tv's.

    They REALLY should have rented some tv's
     
  29. festizzio

    festizzio
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    I would have liked to play some more friendlies as well, especially the first day (I didn't enter doubles), but as the tournament wound down I got to play loads of friendlies, and I would wait for a tournament match to finish and go in right away and play friendlies until another one was called.

    Eh, I see what you mean but I was satisfied.


    Edit: also chad, did you go all pikachu against P in bracket? i wanna know the trick to beating him.
     
  30. AXE 09

    AXE 09
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    dude, Chad was amazing!!!! omg i love you chad!!! our pika team was ****!!!!! dude, if we teamed in the actual tournament, we would've been so amazing haha. we beat some other teams in money matches, it was so epic

    as far as the actual tournament, i admit, there was a HUGE lack of Tv's... i was hoping for a lot more. i lost to this jiggs player... i'm sure all you pika players know how hard it can be to fight jiggs. speaking of which... how does everyone feel about fighting jiggs? personally, it's one of my hardest matchups. the list says that pikachu counters jiggs, but i strongly disagree.

    i also lost to linguini's ganon. it was so close!!!! ahhh! i feel like i should've won, but he ended up getting me... it was still an amazing tournament though haha.

    festizzio, you have one heck of a pikachu also! i remember how nervewrecking it was to try to get an upsmash on you, but you were trying to do the same on me. hahaha it was hilarious. sorry if i seemed all moody and stuff, but right after i lost to linguini is when you and i started to play, so i was kinda in a bad mood, and i just felt like playing falco for a while... but you cheered me up =) you freakin rock dude, it was awesome getting to meet you and your **** pika


    My favorite melee player = PikaChad
     
  31. festizzio

    festizzio
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    I was wondering how you lost to Raistlin (that puff player), and I beat him fairly easily. I would have to watch you vs. puff. All I know is that I approach with fair a lot and it works for some reason, and it combos into dsmash nicely. Usmash also works a lot. I dunno, I'm not very good at giving advice, but all I know is that I've played mango's puff enough to know something about the match-up.
     
  32. pockyD

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    axe didn't go pikachu vs me! he scurred!

    @ Chad - I'm curious as to where you think you can rent CRT TVs nowadays
     
  33. festizzio

    festizzio
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    I also want to know if chad went all pika against neighborhoodP, and if so, how did you win????

    Also axe, what's your secret against fox? plz share thx
     
  34. -Chad-

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    Uhm..I honestly can't remember who neighborhoodP is =x I do remember going all Pika besides against Uberice in which I tried Marth but ended up failing horribly : (

    @pocky- I don't know dude. But you have to agree that they could have done something to help with the tv problem.
     
  35. festizzio

    festizzio
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    According to the bracket you played him in the 1st round winner's, he was your first match. Marth/Sheik player from socal, unless he changed his main.
     
  36. -Chad-

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    I honestly cannot remember... :(
     
  37. defsithe

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    :( :( :( what about me :p lol.

    i kid.

    my two cents on vs puff.
    what festizzio said f-air leads to stuff. alot of my kills are f-air to up smash. but the only puffs i play r down here, and only one of them is really good (davico from mexico) and he usually just goes marth against me.

    so anyone going to HERB2?
     
  38. -Chad-

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    Much <3 for axeeeeee


    Dudes whenever I get a chance I'm gonna upload the most awesome pika pictures this world has ever seen.
     
  39. defsithe

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    wait what? 17 tvs?? geez. wow. fail.
     
  40. -Chad-

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    Southaven, Mississippi

    I know, I don't understand why more people aren't saying anything about it...
     

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