Ask a Qusestion. Get an Answer.

[-Cross-]

Well what you can do is hold the control stick toward the stage and spam up on the c-stick, this way even if they just empty SH at you an uair comes out which has significantly less post lag than fair.

 

[1PokeMastr]

I've been trying to Smash Di into an Edge Cancel to punish them, but, it's so annoying to try.

 

[-Cross-]

I don't think it's possible to edge cancel if you're offstage when they spike you. You could do it if you're still on stage but if not, then it should be physically impossible.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=oPdVrVrl7gg#t=43s
You stop dead pretty much when you hit the ground.

Not sure if its worth using that tactic on other moves which do slide you along the ground. Against MK's Dthrow. DI down and slide to the ledge, or do into a tech chase option?

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

why have you all been slacking so much? falco is definitely top 4 character design wise, what the hell are you guys not doing that made him fall out of where he belongs?

also what's with you guys MU spread? you should easily +1 diddy kong (just ask gnes, he tells the truth about this MU).

you should still **** zss. salem beating bleachigo didn't prove anything but falco not playing anywhere near gay enough. watch larry sk92 or shugo play a zss and im sure it'll be different (i mean bleachigo, seriously of all falcos this is who you decided to make the decision watching.

should be +2 on ike and peach

idk it feels like a lot of falcos ratios could easily be on the harder side of whats listed. i feel like he has way more 1.5 and 2.5 then what this list shows. the current chart under rates falco a lot.

**** guys you need another larry or sethlon to come out of nowhere and show people why this bird is top tier again

 

[Omni]

[yt]ewL6n5cAHZk[/yt]

What I think is happening is that he is cancelling his upwards momentum by performing either a laser or a down+b at the proper height. Normally you would continue going upwards, but my guess is that either the laser or the down+b make his feet hitbox lower to the ground (on his way up).

Not sure, tho'.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Pretty sure its a laser. Looks like one arm is facing backwards like in the animation. Can't be a shine since you see a visual cue of the hexagon on frame 1.

 

[-Cross-]

why have you all been slacking so much? falco is definitely top 4 character design wise, what the hell are you guys not doing that made him fall out of where he belongs?

also what's with you guys MU spread? you should easily +1 diddy kong (just ask gnes, he tells the truth about this MU).

you should still **** zss. salem beating bleachigo didn't prove anything but falco not playing anywhere near gay enough. watch larry sk92 or shugo play a zss and im sure it'll be different (i mean bleachigo, seriously of all falcos this is who you decided to make the decision watching.

should be +2 on ike and peach

idk it feels like a lot of falcos ratios could easily be on the harder side of whats listed. i feel like he has way more 1.5 and 2.5 then what this list shows. the current chart under rates falco a lot.

@Xeylode: Aside from what happened, I'm more surprised by how you guys could tell it was a laser lol. We really need to figure this tech out.

**** guys you need another larry or sethlon to come out of nowhere and show people why this bird is top tier again

put this in social, not a post you make in Q&A really. I really don't understand why you are making this type of post. You don't even play Falco, so ripping us on our tier placement really doesn't make sense to me. Also don't give me that he's a top 4 character by design bull****, smash isn't about character design, it's about MU's. If you have a MU problem, then you should have posted when we were having discussions. Same to Gnes, because I would really like to hear how to play the diddy MU instead of hearing from somebody else that "Gnes knows the MU."

I don't understand why you shamelessly rip on bleachigo. Salem's a good if not better player than bleachigo and bleachigo didn't know the MU that's how he got owned, I thought everybody understood this. His performance imo was not why Falco vs zss has become a better MU for them. Zss's advancement in her metagame is the reason for the more favorable MU, it's still in Falco's favor though. Finally, Falco is still under top tier in the tier list, so we don't need somebody to show us he is.

If this is supposed to be some sort of encouragement, then there are more polite ways to do it. Regardless the days of people actually caring about the placement of their character on the tier list are pretty much over.

@Xeylode: Rather than the tech, I'm more surprised by how you could tell it was a laser lol. We really need to figure this tech out.

 

[Omni]

Well, I paused it during the frame and it appeared that he was going into laser form.

Based on Falco's positioning, Diddy's positioning, and the most common way to act it appears that it was Falco's intent to simply b laser anyway and that occurred on accident. If he did it on purpose then *shrug*.

But yeah, I'll look into this tonight. I still stand by my theory that performing an aerial laser lowers Falco's feet slightly enabling him to planet himself onto the platform... but if that were possible I would think that Falco would be able to do that on platforms as well so... hmmm..

Investigate, dudes!

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

@Maharba & Cross: "Shots fired! Shots fired!" I wanted to simply use that quote. But, more seriously: please do not escalate into burning each other in the end. Now, back to the main question...

Despite what each of our own speculation might be about how good a MU spread might be for Falco, he is not perfect. Many would agree that Pikachu and ICs being (at the very least) a soft counter to Falco is a pretty big deal compared to the others. Olimar, Diddy, and ICs do not exactly have this soft counter like Falco does.

@Omni & Cross: I reasoned the same as you. And I have already spent like 2 hours in a couple intervals and could not think of anything reasonable nor get anything decent.

Well, if you have any ideas let me know. This was my thoughts so far. First off, the video makes it look like a fast fall and 2nd jump very close to the ledge judging by the little circle in the air. And by pausing, it looks like a laser.

So by fast falling, he would had to have held down for about 5-7 frames from release. 4 frames and less is to low to drop from release. Plus, you cannot drift while in a laser animation. Any drift inputs would have to occurred during falling or jumping before laser input. I really doubt reversals or turn around laser was used by accident. It might be. But, I think its just a combination of timing, pushing forward, the stage pushing you back, and messing up your jumping animation with a laser animation.

Hope either of you have any ideas on what might have happened too simply say. I sort of got bored with trying to figure it out and think up of new stuff.

 

[Kuro~]

But maharba does use falco.

 

[-Cross-]

His icon says pit, and I don't see him post around here much. Guess I was wrong :/. Well don't want to start a flame war or anything, but if he does play Falco, then his post is more understandable. Although I didn't know people still cared about tiers tbh.

@Xeylode: I haven't been able to replicate it at all. We might need some more smash researchers on this ****, because likewise, I am getting bored/frustrated trying to replicate.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Hello! I am a Pit/ Falco main coming here to complain about why I think Falco should be better, then rage at you guys for not making him what I want.

Oh, You play Falco too ?

Stop complaining and show us what you want done.


As for the ledge thing.


I zoomed in as it was playing, and paused it every second.

I saw the animation for Falco's gun.

Edit: Why don't we go and ask the Player if he remembers what he was going to do in that Situation ?

 

[Orion*]

why have you all been slacking so much? falco is definitely top 4 character design wise, what the hell are you guys not doing that made him fall out of where he belongs?

also what's with you guys MU spread? you should easily +1 diddy kong (just ask gnes, he tells the truth about this MU).

you should still **** zss. salem beating bleachigo didn't prove anything but falco not playing anywhere near gay enough. watch larry sk92 or shugo play a zss and im sure it'll be different (i mean bleachigo, seriously of all falcos this is who you decided to make the decision watching.

should be +2 on ike and peach

idk it feels like a lot of falcos ratios could easily be on the harder side of whats listed. i feel like he has way more 1.5 and 2.5 then what this list shows. the current chart under rates falco a lot.

**** guys you need another larry or sethlon to come out of nowhere and show people why this bird is top tier again

Oh the irony that a mediocre, johning player like yourself wants to complain about this. Although to be honest most of this is so stupid that I almost think it's a troll. @Ask Gnes LMAO. about 90% of the time I see him post a MU ratio for diddy my head turns sideways.

 

[MARLX]

I'll come out of the shadows and make Falco become top four once again. Now I just need to go to some tourneys and make it happen=)

 

[-Cross-]

^LOL! Marlx's post has officially made this one of the best series of posts I have EVER read.

 

[MARLX]

^LOL! Marlx's post has officially made this one of the best series of posts I have EVER read.

You may think I am joking, but I'm not.
I will try to accomplish this goal and make the other guy feel better, and many other falco mains. I may seem like a zero now, but I will rise and raise falco to where he belongs on the tier list.

 

[1PokeMastr]

You may think I am joking, but I'm not.
I will try to accomplish this goal and make the other guy feel better, and many other falco mains. I may seem like a zero now, but I will rise and raise falco to where he belongs on the tier list.

No offense, One person alone can't make the character change placement on the Tier list alone.

 

[Gnes]

Oh the irony that a mediocre, johning player like yourself wants to complain about this. Although to be honest most of this is so stupid that I almost think it's a troll. @Ask Gnes LMAO. about 90% of the time I see him post a MU ratio for diddy my head turns sideways.

True, at face value my opinions might seem weird. But after 4 yrs in this game and people still can't press shield, what can u do?

 

[Orion*]

True, at face value my opinions might seem weird. But after 4 yrs in this game and people still can't press shield, what can u do?

I think people over shield in this game :/

I will agree that like 90% of people don't know how to fight diddy properly. But then like 90% of diddy players suck LMAO.

I think you're overall consciousness of spacial control, and reads is ridiculous but I don't think you play MU's and *** it out. I think in terms of beating people that are hard for you, you have more potential than wyatt does, but I also think it's more likely you will lose to MU's or players below your level because sometimes you just aren't gay enough

I don't really think your opinions are weird, I just think they are really based from the way that you play diddy, rather than necessarily the most optimal way. In some ways it's like when i watch allys MK, (although to be fair your diddy at least looks cute, and you don't drop easy setups whereas allys MK is ugly sometimes).

but that's just my opinion.

i don't disagree with EVERYthing you say or something, but sometimes I do really ****ing like have a seizure on some MU opinions you post

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

One could find results of a single person leading a character and link that to the success of a character. Ally with snake for one has been brought up before.

And on the topic of shielding, there seems to be match-ups for Falco in which shielding can be a forefront strategy for the duration of the match. Tether grabs such as Link, TL, ZSS, and Ivysaur come to mind. Even if that is not the case, shielding is just really good in this game. So not much can be helped if you tend to see it a lot.

 

[1PokeMastr]

One could find results of a single person leading a character and link that to the success of a character. Ally with snake for one has been brought up before.

And on the topic of shielding, there seems to be match-ups for Falco in which shielding can be a forefront strategy for the duration of the match. Tether grabs such as Link, TL, ZSS, and Ivysaur come to mind. Even if that is not the case, shielding is just really good in this game. So not much can be helped if you tend to see it a lot.

To be honest, Shielding against TLink/ Link has never been my favourite.
I'd rather Jab Arrows/ Rang and catch bombs in mid air by pressing Grab.

 

[kismet2]

Does anyone know if Falco's Fsmash hit in front of him on 14 or does it start on 14(including the hitbox starting from the back of his head)?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

The first moment a hitbox is out (overhead) is on frame 16 and goes almost vertical above his head. 17, its like a 45 degree angle in front of him. On 18-19 its actually in front of him. The weaker and really big hitbox is on frame 21.

 

[kismet2]

Frame 16 makes sense and thanks

 

[DEHF]

I have a question for you guys. How's life?

 

[Ultimate~Anarchy]

I have a question for you guys. How's life?

Good DEHF, how is yours?

And also hello Falco boards. I am not new to the boards, but I decided to make an account. I have been here since 2006, and I thought it would have been a great idea to make an account and share my knowledge about this amazing character. And MARLX stop your pitiful trolling, you are just wasting your time and everyone else's time. Also just for kicks, I am not up to par in tournament play, can anyone please send a link to where I can find the information about Falco techniques and how they are used in competitive game play?

From, Ultimate Anarchy

 

[kismet2]

@larry trying to exploit falco

@anarchy you're probably better off watching videos since falco doesn't really have many techniques you can abuse except for gatling combo and dacus BUT don't let me stop you lol http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=298220 it's in "The Professional" part of the guide

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Hmm.... Messed up at the moment. I've been sick and trying to get a job to go through for the summer. That's my life at the moment.

 

[DEHF]

@Ultimate Anarchy Finished up school for this semester, so I'm going to be putting in more hours for work and brawl .

 

[Host Change]

I'm mad at the moment because my sister took all my wiimotes to some party and I can't work on my Brawl hacks. But beyond that, I'm doing good. I'm going to be taking a couple summer classes and playing non stop Brawl.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Working on getting a Job.
Majoring in Graphic Design/ Dramatic Arts.
Trying my best to get my own place.

And, Spending hours on end talking to my special someone.

 

[SombreroJon]

Just finished with school and now looking to get into the smash scene over the summer... any advice for meh? I played some decent players for the first time in my life this weekend at fanime and it was a lot of fun. Learned a lot but it made me think about the question... against a good player who knows the matchup and how to play it, how to you get them out of your face? I played Sky earlier and no matter what I tried that guy just wouldn't get out of my face. I never loved jab as much as I did earlier today but what are the best options to cover a player who is too close to safely SHL but too far to F-tilt/jab?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Skyly Humar, that lucario.
I'd say the best advice depends upon the goal you set-up for yourself. Well, it sounds like you got a bit overwhelmed by someone who continually kept advancing on you with attacks. There are a few things you can try. For one, you might predict they are going to rush at you with some attack. You could shield, then respond to whatever they do by dropping shield into a dash attack. Grab if you can. Jump while in shield and do an aerial as they run by. Or you could throw out a quick little jab or Ftilt by walking upto them and timing it. Another thing is bait them. Like, dash towards them or walk towards them, then roll behind/away. Or dash away or walk away. Then, in whatever lag they might have you could attack.

 

[-Cross-]

If he is too far for ftilt/jab, then he is not in your face lol. Simple answer to your question about how to get them out of your face, create space. This is part of the importance of maintaining the center of the stage, because it gives you the option of retreating to the space behind you. Illusion is also very good here, because you can create more space with it. Anyway, you're going to need to post a video before you can get actually relevant critique, otherwise you're just going to get technical answers. Without a video, I can't really answer your second question, because there are many different scenarios, and there is no one option that can cover everything.

 

[SombreroJon]

Yeah I haven't posted in the video critique thread yet, waiting to get my hands on my friend's camera. I guess I was just overwhelmed a little by the guy I was playing. He was always putting me in an uncomfortable spot, either right out of safe jump/jab range or right in my face where my boxing tools are awesome but limited.

Also, how much do you guys pay attention to landing lag after a phantasm and what is the best way to get rid of it? I usually pay 0-none because I feel like it's irrelevant most of the time with all the SH's falco uses but I was told when asking for advice that he was taking advantage of my lag so meh what do you guys think.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Phantasm landing lag is fixed. You cannot get rid of the amount of lag it has. You can avoid unnecessary lag by keeping your phantasm as low to the ground as possible. Or as low to the platform you land on as possible. Well, the other option is simply phantasm into a ledge. If you do that, you'll snap on and not have to worry about landing lag.

I usually do not pay attention to the lag other than making sure that before I use phantasm, the opponent is not in a location to be able to get to my landing site very quickly. For example, if a Lucario is in the middle of the stage, I would not want to phantasm straight at him. I'd go for the ledge. Or better yet, if I can get on stage without having to use phantasm or my opponent being very close to my landing site, I'd simply do that. In the opposite case, if Lucario is near the ledge, I would guess he is about to snap onto the ledge to edgehog me if I were to phantasm to it. Thus, I aim it low, but onto the stage.

When recovering (getting back to the stage), its best to focus on the space between you and the opponent. This way, you can gauge if your at the right height, but you can watch the opponent before making a final decision.

Edit: Oh, and its seems to be a very frequently used tactic to get off the ledge by 2nd jumping and phantasm. It's an option, but not one to be abused every time you get to the ledge. You might be on the ledge maybe 20 times in a single match. If you get off with the same method every time, it might work the first half of the time, but eventually the opponent might learn and KO you at the right moment for this repeatable tactic. Not sure if that was what you were doing when he was attacking you in phantasm lag, but this just crossed my mind.

 

[SombreroJon]

I'm not talking about the lag after the phantasm... IAP is awesome and has little lag and can be hard to punish. I'm talking about RCO lag, where when you phantasm from the air (whether you land on stage or on the ledge) the next time you jump and land you have 20 frames of lag unless you remove the lag with the use of an aerial at some point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeS-VpmtcWk

Watch the whole thing or skip to 4:06 to see the negative effect of RCO lag for falco, it can be a big deal if you are phantasm-ing too much onto the ledge and stage without canceling it at some point.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

lol That makes a difference in topic. Yeah, RCO lag I will actively try getting rid of at the nearest possible moment. Also, just try to use the "edit" at the bottom of a post rather than double posting.

 

[teluoborg]

My personal advice is to not rush yourself in order to get rid of it.
If in some situation you find that a ledge attack/roll/get up is the best option then use it, and go cancel your RCO somewhere else (what I usually do is land a Bair in a place where SHDLing would be safe).

Just stay aware of when you have it or not, because an opponent that knows the matchup will notice.

Also I found a new way to cancel the RCO but I'm still testing things so it's a secret for now.
Nothing game changing tho.