Ask a Qusestion. Get an Answer.

[1PokeMastr]

I haven't personally tried it or anything, but I have heard it from several people who explained why it doesn't matter if Snake bairs or uairs for mometum canceling.

Actually, I've tried this before and it has made a difference for me. Any hurtbox that hits the blast zone causes you to die. As well, Fair was for Vertical, Not Horizontal.

 

[kismet2]

so since i've been wrong about falco's moves frame datawise lately. it would be awesome if i was also wrong about falco's usmash which i think is 8, is that the frame it comes out?

 

[SN Viper]

Yup up smash hits on frame eight.

 

[teluoborg]

It gets max reach at frame 9-10 tho.

 

[kismet2]

orly? that's pretty cool

 

[1PokeMastr]

Any other Falco's besides me going to Impulse ?

 

[Sully]

Is there any move that can lead to a definite laser lock?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Nope. The only thing you can't tech is a footstool and you can't get to the ground that fast.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Do not forgot those edge slip mechanics. Not exactly a move, but something to set-up for a laserlock since at the right height/character you cannot tech.

 

[teluoborg]

Dthrow>footstool>PC drop>laser lock. Works only on SV.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFEO1XRyD3s#t=33s

Also yeah, edgeslip is legit but only on half of the cast iirc.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Edgeslip may work on half the cast, but it mostly works on the bad half.

 

[1PokeMastr]

It works on Snake, Metaknight, Fox, Wolf, Sheik, C.Falcon, Falco, Ganon, Bowser, D3, Link, Diddy, Dk, Pikachu, Zss, Lucas, Sonic, Squirtle, Charizard, Ike, Pit, Wario.

Seems like.. Some of High/ Top Tier and Top/ Bottom Mid tier and Top of Low tier.

This will be VERY useful in netting free attacks since Edge Slip animation + Bounce Animation = Free Fsmash/ Dsmash/ Usmash/ Laser lock.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

^Was that list from the video on edge slip mechanics where they tested it on battlefield? I think most stages are BF height anyway for the lower platforms, so that's a good list if it is. Lylat would probably be of best use since it would catch more people in there determined edge slip time. Even if you cannot get a laser lock, I like the idea of a guaranteed kill set-up with that condition.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Yeah, it was BF only. But.. Ps1 has almost the same height in T1.

 

[luxingo]

Question: What's the best way to boost pivot grab from downthrow timing-wise?
Also, what do you think of the

• Dash one direction
• Grab
• C-stick the other direction

method of pivot grabbing? Apparently it's better because you don't roll-cancel when you press grab and control stick back at the same time.

Actually, I've tried this before and it has made a difference for me. Any hurtbox that hits the blast zone causes you to die. As well, Fair was for Vertical, Not Horizontal.

I've tested this on the blast zones on the side and you die when the centre passes the blast zone. Hurtboxes don't matter.

Here's what I did.

• Bridge of Eldin (since it has walk-off blast zones)
• Slowly walk Bowser off and note where he dies.
• Slowly walk Snake off and note where he dies.
• Repeat Bowser with a super mushroom.

The centre-of-the-character theory was easily seen. Bowser dies when his centre passes over a certain brick (I used this as the unit of measurement as I was on the bridge), just like Snake, and Bowser is like 10 bricks wide while Snake is 2 iirc. Ofc, the super mushroom Bowser is much bigger, but he still died when his centre passed that brick.

1PokeMastr, I'm guessing that you tested with the upper blast zone though. What was your method?

 

[kismet2]

the method you mentioned might be the best one. i'm bad lol i dash>dash attack with down on the c-stick and pivot grab. are the upper and side blast zones different in some way when it comes to touching it with a certain part of a character's body?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

This was something that popped into my head when playing other falco's as snake. I think relying on reflector is a horrible idea to stop his grenades. Like everytime falco simply stopped using lasers, and waited to use his reflector, I could perfeclty cook nades to hit him out of the reflector and he takes the double damage.

So, I'm thinking either keep up shl's or mix in ground lasers, but never reflect. Well, never is a bad word. Stuff will always find a way of working, but as core mechanics, I think it should be something a snake will punish you for using.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Kismet says, "yeah as long as we stay at mid range we can probably walk up to snake and laser/grab them if they try to cook."

 

[teluoborg]

Orrrr, you can just shoot your SHLs slightly higher, because anyway you'll hit a standing Snake and miss a crouching one.
Slightly higher lasers cross the trajectory of item tossed nades and detonate them. It doesn't work 100% of the time but it sure hinders Snake's camping (and it's funny to make his nades blow up right in his face).

Edit : reflector is pretty legit as long as you're not using it automatically, the fact that it has no dead frames between the reflecting and your shield makes it safe at long range.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I mean, when Snake pulls a grenade, a timer starts in my head. There's nothing stopping me from shooting him and then choosing reflector or shield/other defensive manuevet based on when he throws it and when it will blow.

 

[kismet2]

how do you guys feel if we try to space a reflector in snake's face when he pulls a grenade? it'll either miss and auto reflect grenade or it will hit and because of the weak knockback the snake is force to shield the soon-to-explode grenade(if they're close to the ledge). even if the snake has enough time to shield he'll drop the grenade and be stuck in the same situation.

EDIT: i haven't tried this but wanted to share and see how you guys feel about it

 

[1PokeMastr]

I hope you mean at high Damages.

As.. our Reflector at low damages.. is over -22, Since Zss can Dsmash us if we hit her with reflector at low enough damages before we can even shield.

 

[kismet2]

yeah that's why i wanted to space it while he's holding a grenade. he'd have to toss it or get rid of it before they can do anything(if they don't want to get hit by the grenade). best thing snake has is dash attack/dacus. the problem with that is the dash attack will sourspot(and pick up the grenade) while dacus would pick up the grenade while we take little damage and knockback. reflector is a mixup which no one will be fully prepared for unless they read it. i also forgot to mention that sh reflector is boss because you can control your momentum in the air so you can pull back to minimize the risk. i also use this in the diddy matchup and it helps alot.

EDIT: i haven't tested this yet so i don't know how well this'll work. i'll let you guys know how it goes when i try it in a real match.

 

[1PokeMastr]

The only times I use reflector is to Anti air, being that it hits on Frame 4, and you have aerial control over it, while it has nice range.

 

[luxingo]

best thing snake has is dash attack/dacus. the problem with that is the dash attack will sourspot(and pick up the grenade)

I'm guessing that most snakes will power-shield on reflex, and then instantly dash attack you. The dash attack is fast enough so that they net some damage on you and they can throw it away when they finish it (maybe even back at you).

I personally wouldn't recommend it.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Snake pulling a nade and walking around is rare from my experience. Falco can just run away and force him to drop with a laser. If he is pulling a nade and holding, its when falco usually cannot attack him (as in falco is in the air).

If you run into the situation, I think it would be a decent idea to maul over. Shine is a very fast move and I cannot believe someone can react to a 4-6 frame move unless they predict an attack or feel scared when you walk up to them. The other risk is if he rolls behind and you shine. So much lag you'll get hit for sure if he rolls towards you when you do it.

Overall, if I see snake holding a nade and walking around, I'd rather scare him by walking up to him. His only options are shield, dodge, grab, or roll. And if you space out of his grab range, your very presence can scare him into doing something, then you react to that.

By holding the grenade, do you mean Snake is holding it after he picked it up, or just plucked it and does his weird little walk back and forth? I was replying with the latter in mind.

 

[luxingo]

If you run into the situation, I think it would be a decent idea to maul over. Shine is a very fast move and I cannot believe someone can react to a 4-6 frame move unless they predict an attack or feel scared when you walk up to them. The other risk is if he rolls behind and you shine. So much lag you'll get hit for sure if he rolls towards you when you do it.

Overall, if I see snake holding a nade and walking around, I'd rather scare him by walking up to him. His only options are shield, dodge, grab, or roll. And if you space out of his grab range, your very presence can scare him into doing something, then you react to that. .

The reflector's hitbox comes out very fast, but in this situation, I doubt that falco will be close enough for it to hit snake immediately. That is, I believe that it'll hit snake at around 12 frames after. And since snake's options are almost all from shield, he'll probably go to shield on reflex anyway.

Btw, his other option is to throw the grenade (with his fastest grenade throw at 26 frames).

 

[kismet2]

yeah i was referring to the latter

 

[1PokeMastr]

Alright.. so.. How the hell do I deal with Rob ? I literally have no idea what to do outside of "Camp him" that's all I've ever been told, and it didn't work this time around.

I had no idea what to do when he gets within his F-Tilt range, which out ranges Marth and everything about Marth except shield breaker. If I phantasmed. I'd be dash grabbed.
If I did anything.. I'd get punished hard.

So, I ask again.
What the hell do I do against Rob ?

And Diddy.. I tried what I've been taught.. but.. it wasn't good enough. I got destroyed by a Diddy Kong ( From Michigan, Not Zinoto )

What do I do ?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

A simple solution to characters like rob, marth, and snake is to stay close as possible, but outside their range of their standing options. In Rob's case it would be Ftilt. This way if they try poking you with any of their ground moves like jab, ftilt, dtilt, they get stuck in their own ending lag while pushing towards you. Your presence acts as the bait for them to try attacking.

When they are stuck in ending lag, you can reach out and hit them with Ftilt/jab. The spacing you maintain also helps give you more time to react to a dash attack or dash grab option (or the occasional roll).

Unless you get stuck trying to attack or in a short hop, robs laser/gyro should always be powershielded on reaction.

If you are getting stuck trying to recover or get back to the ground, then always slow down and watch your opponent and react instead of trying to buffer/options at low percents or even high percents. For example, fthrow/bthrow -> laser/gyro should never work if you keep eyes on rob even when your taking knockback. Avoid trying to DI directly above rob. Better to DI moves and knockback more to the side or unless you can get closer to a platform (which gives you ground options).

Generally, most of the problems I run into with rob are solved by slowing down, waiting for him to make the first move, and generally react to it with the best option. Hopefully, some of this is useful.

 

[kismet2]

does everyone know about holding away from the ledge then using phantasm? instead of drop>double jump into phantasm. this method it lets you keep invincibility from the ledge so no one can jump out and gimp you.

EDIT: Poke if rob tries to get in his ftilt range you should be in your shl/jab range and use those to outpoke rob. try to use more double jab to force reactions out of him too. as for diddy you have to space your reflector outside of midrange so if the diddy does side b it will completely miss you. what i think helps most in this matchup is if diddy has both bananas out, i usually try to take both of them if i get the chance and camp on the other side of the stage with them behind me. that way diddy has to fight through lasers and mixups to get his bananas back, you can do falco things to diddy without the fear of being banana'd.

 

[1PokeMastr]

That Diddy part.. makes so much sense.

 

[BSP]

If is consistently hitting you out of jab1 -> attempted followup, what do you guys usually resort to doing? Jab1 -> jab2? Or the full jab combo?

 

[kismet2]

Just jab cancel then side dodge, shield, or roll backwards. This lets you bait your opponent into attacking/grabbing so you can use more jab mixups. The full jab combo is a great mixup between double jabbing because your opponent has to decide to sdi away or try to retaliate. If you want to to setup for a phantasm or shl gayness then you'll want to full jab(double jab cancel>back roll is pretty much the same too) but don't forget to mix it up with other jabs lol

sad face that I haven't been able to post lately =( I'm at a rooster teeth convention for the weekend

EDIT: Poke, more diddy advice. If you're midrange just shl and if the diddy throws a naner you can just react with an airdodge to catch(or you can instathrow) or if you shield and diddy is close enough after they throw a naner, dair oos them. But if diddy is sitting in his shield with a naner you can use dair. What makes this so good is that the diddy has to choose which way to throw the naner, but you're too close for it to hit you(his best options are roll and sidedodge but dair sourspot hits sidedodge lol) unless you try to pull back but there's no reason for you to do that. Also spaced short hop dairs beat diddy's side b kick

 

[hichez50]

Where is the best position for lucario in the falco match-up. I feel that Lucario is limited to air combat. Then even there we can only chip damage off. Close range cario gets beaten by shield&jab mix-ups. The only thing I have found to be effective offensively is to try to get a frame 1 or 2 FP or DI up and get a frame 4 dair. Midrange there seems to be hope, but falco still has reflector/ has time to react/ lucario has limited options. Then there is no change of out camping falco with AS from afar. Or am I just over thinking this MU?

 

[k9.]

Not to change subject or anything, but i really want to thank all of the people that helped me reach my goal to beat darklink in tourney and it was epic because it was his last tourney.

So really thanks a lot that was my first big goal, now my next one is to become number one in AZ. Then my next goal is to be King of the Falco! So my goals for this game will be hard but not impossible and you guys helped me prove that so again thanks guys.

Keep that work with falco.

 

[-Trip-]

>just wondering how other falcos BDACUS, I personally Buffer a dash attack with up on the c-stick and press up on it again. (I'm pretty sure BluB made a video and explained it that way a couple years back.)

 

[1PokeMastr]

C-Stick Down, C-Stick Up.
Or Up Up. Depends on how I'm feeling.

 

[hichez50]

I guess I will just get ignored.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I guess I will just get ignored.

I'll get around to it a bit later for some ideas. Sorta of just checking the site right now.