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Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)
- Thread starter Pierce7d
- Start date
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
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The above tactic only works against dumb MKs and Marths who spam D-tilt on shield at least like 3 times in a row (to be fair, that's a lot of players). And if they're spamming D-tilt like that, you might as well just drop shield D-smash/DB anyway, or shieldgrab depending on how close they are. (iirc perfectly timed DB oos actually does punish MK's D-tilt, but it will only hit Marth if he commits to another move).
Just saying, if you're dropping shield just for the sake of setting up another powershield, there's better options.
LIGHTLY hold upwards, and input Jump+Attack. If you hold it too high, you Up-smash. Too low, you N-air.
Besides crouching, this is by far the most underused universal mechanic in the game that actually is USEFUL for all characters (except Yoshi can't do it out of shield LOL).
I could write an essay about how amazing buffered U-air out of shield is in general. But I think for most of you, it should be fairly obvious.
Just saying, if you're dropping shield just for the sake of setting up another powershield, there's better options.
WUT. You are on my top ten list of the last people I would expect to not know how to buffer U-air out of shield (take that as a compliment please). I taught this to crackle really recently anyhow.
LIGHTLY hold upwards, and input Jump+Attack. If you hold it too high, you Up-smash. Too low, you N-air.
Besides crouching, this is by far the most underused universal mechanic in the game that actually is USEFUL for all characters (except Yoshi can't do it out of shield LOL).
I could write an essay about how amazing buffered U-air out of shield is in general. But I think for most of you, it should be fairly obvious.
Pierce7d
Wise Hermit
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uh, i shield to powershield dsmash all the time. What are you talking about?
Tutorial on uair oos is legit though, more people need to know
Tutorial on uair oos is legit though, more people need to know
Reizilla
The Old Lapras and the Sea
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contrary to popular belief, it was I who first said you can shield drop dsmash to punish mk's dtilt.
but I only said it once before Pierce said it every other time
I had an argument with EL/Steel back then about how it doesn't work or something.
but I only said it once before Pierce said it every other time
I had an argument with EL/Steel back then about how it doesn't work or something.
earla
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2008
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- 1,422
1. how many frames is buffered uair oos? if a move is buffered, which frame does it actually come out on?
2. which type of moves CAN be buffered?'
3. can marth jab lock? i tried with jab but could only hit 2-3. was considering full hop dair into stage fast fall, if opponent misses tech -> jab lock.
2. which type of moves CAN be buffered?'
3. can marth jab lock? i tried with jab but could only hit 2-3. was considering full hop dair into stage fast fall, if opponent misses tech -> jab lock.
1. 10 frames. If a move is buffered it comes out the earliest possible frame it can. So being frame perfect/buffering a move is basically the same thing; buffering just makes being frame perfect easier.
2. To my knowledge, all moves. You have less frames to buffer out of a grab release though.
3. Yeah. I believe you need to use the first hit of untipped jab. Also, Dair probably has too much lag for that to set up; you're more likely going to jab lock off of your opponent failing a tech after getting hit off a platform.
Edit: Thanks Shaya.
If uair is buffered out of shield, its 10 frames.
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
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I'm not saying it doesn't work, I'm just trying to point out logically, what is the point of it? You're just adding another technical uncertainty by dropping shield for the sake of putting it up again (and contrary to what crackle was saying, I don't think it's an automatic powershield technically). Buffering your 6 frame oos option on shield drop accomplishes the same thing against MKs and Marths who commit to repeated D-tilts.
Marth jab lock stuff? what?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9p3OacvYxV0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9p3OacvYxV0
xxmoosexx
Smash Lord
What exactly is Drop Shield? I know what OoS is. Its when you do a move and it forces the shield out sort of.
How often should buffering be used?
Is there a thread for the Uair Buffering on how to do it, how its too be used, and what it looks like?
How often should buffering be used?
Is there a thread for the Uair Buffering on how to do it, how its too be used, and what it looks like?
kaffei4lunch
Smash Cadet
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A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
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Drop shield is just letting go of your shield button...unless you powershield, you have 7 frames of ending lag when dropping shield (you have none when you powershield).
You can check my topics. I just made the recent topic about buffered U-air in the tactical discussion. And I explained it on the previous page of this topic as well...
For Marth, U-air oos is just something to keep in mind when anti-airing for instance. It can also hit grounded opponents who are right next to you as well, and unlike F-air, it can kinda cover both sides (although it's important to note fullhop D-air does that as well). U-air oos is also safer than U-smash oos, and more damaging than U-throw, and putting someone above Marth is a good thing for him.
Honestly no matter who you use, I just think learning to buffer U-airs properly is a good thing. Even if your U-air doesn't necessarily cover options better than your other moves, having more options to do the same thing is very useful when you start factoring stale moves. It's the reason why grab KOs are very useful.
Soran
Smash Ace
lololol
yeah, about that MK dtilt pressure thing. I was like, Shield drop, PS>dsmash sounds awesome.
but then I thought if the mk was anticipating that he could time his dtilts.
but yeah. I sometimes jump or just roll away/towards.
frame stuff. me no know wut u say Dx
yeah, about that MK dtilt pressure thing. I was like, Shield drop, PS>dsmash sounds awesome.
but then I thought if the mk was anticipating that he could time his dtilts.
but yeah. I sometimes jump or just roll away/towards.
frame stuff. me no know wut u say Dx
makoforce
Smash Ace
how do i do follow ups on MK's grab release I always seem to take off to late
Pay attention to Marth.
Its when his sword is just about to reach his side that you can start moving.
Its when his sword is just about to reach his side that you can start moving.
condemned_soul
Smash Champion
when it comes to platfrom canceling, are there more convenient ways to do it or is it to each his own
With Marth I find it convenient to use the c stick down to platform cancel.
The reason this works with Marth is because his down air auto cancels (i.e. has no landing lag) before the hitbox comes out, so it gives you a natural 5 frame leeway.
The reason this works with Marth is because his down air auto cancels (i.e. has no landing lag) before the hitbox comes out, so it gives you a natural 5 frame leeway.
Soran
Smash Ace
what if I press down and c-stick down? because that is waht I do lolz.
you can just use c-stick down to platform cancel right? without pressing down?
PCing is very easy to me now. you just gotta know when to do it.
you can just use c-stick down to platform cancel right? without pressing down?
PCing is very easy to me now. you just gotta know when to do it.
LooftWaffles
Smash Journeyman
Buffering a dash in brawl is ****ed. You have to let go of the analog before the buffer window closes. You probably arent letting go fast enough. If that isnt it, try waiting a split second so the dash comes out right away instead of buffering it.
ZeroL
Smash Apprentice
It's simply buffering it out of the platform cancel, the timing may seem tricky at first but it's not that hard at all. With about 5/10 minutes in training mode you'll probably get the timing perfect. I'm not quite sure when to buffer it, at what timing etc. so for me it's probably just muscle memory or something.
Oh guys I think I found something. When Fthrowing Marth at 0% we can't Fsmash tipper him but what if we buffer a dash forward and then do a fsmash? In training mode this works and all, but I'm not sure for real Marths. Mr-R, T and Chair are coming over here for smash tommorow so I can probably test it then.
Kuro~
Nitoryu Kuro
ok so i have a question when i fight smart agression mk's i do fine but as soon as i fight mk's that just wait and punish what do i do against that i mean cuz he is a smart player so he just reads fake outs and reacts wth do i do? if they just wait for u to approach...
Pierce7d
Wise Hermit
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QFTcontrary to popular belief, it was I who first said you can shield drop dsmash to punish mk's dtilt.
but I only said it once before Pierce said it every other time
I had an argument with EL/Steel back then about how it doesn't work or something.
It's merely a defensive read, that has high reward, and relatively lower risk.
I always hold down and use C-Stick forward. In the incidence I err, I'm not severely punished for using Fair.
Delay the Fsmash slightly, it's really easy. However, I wouldn't Fsmash an MK at 0.
I will get to this later. Post it again if I don't get to this by the end of today.ok so i have a question when i fight smart agression mk's i do fine but as soon as i fight mk's that just wait and punish what do i do against that i mean cuz he is a smart player so he just reads fake outs and reacts wth do i do? if they just wait for u to approach...
Remzi
formerly VaBengal
I just hold down on the analog as I pass the platform, and then let go of it when my feet get there and do basically whatever I want. If you just let go of down at the right time, you don't even need another input, he'll autoland anyways. the reason c-stick inputs work is because they take away your analog input for one frame.
But if you do it that way, you can accidentally aerial and be punished, whereas if you just release down on the analog, worst case scenario you jump above the platform but still have your options available.
But if you do it that way, you can accidentally aerial and be punished, whereas if you just release down on the analog, worst case scenario you jump above the platform but still have your options available.
vato_break
Smash Master
What characters can Marth Grab release spike/fair/dashattack/nair/ect?
dean.
.
Dair... only Meta Knight/Squirtle/Wario
Nair... Meta Knight perhaps (difficult), Ivysaur, Wario
Fair... G&W, Meta Knight, Ivysaur, Wario, Toon Link and Mario I believe
Dash attack... Meta Knight and perhaps Pikachu
My knowledge is kinda patchy but this is a decent idea
Nair... Meta Knight perhaps (difficult), Ivysaur, Wario
Fair... G&W, Meta Knight, Ivysaur, Wario, Toon Link and Mario I believe
Dash attack... Meta Knight and perhaps Pikachu
My knowledge is kinda patchy but this is a decent idea
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
gr to spike
Mk, Ness, Lucas, Squirtle, Wario
that's all to my knowledge
Mk, Ness, Lucas, Squirtle, Wario
that's all to my knowledge
vato_break
Smash Master
Hmm.. none on diddy?
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
Dash attack and fair on diddy if they try to mash out
dean.
.
Yeah, air release not guaranteed on Diddy Kong
DreadCthulhu
Smash Cadet
is there a guide on how to do the up b ledge cancel?
Kuro~
Nitoryu Kuro
QFT
OP by Kuro~: ok so i have a question when i fight smart agression mk's i do fine but as soon as i fight mk's that just wait and punish what do i do against that i mean cuz he is a smart player so he just reads fake outs and reacts wth do i do? if they just wait for u to approach...
I will get to this later. Post it again if I don't get to this by the end of today.
doing as requested
Fatalzyntax
Smash Apprentice
I have trouble approaching Wolf. I can dodge his blaster but I can't do much about his fsmash on my landing. =(
Help please
Help please
DreadCthulhu
Smash Cadet
if he is waiting in shield: land away from him
if he is charhing while you fall: attack him (you outrange and outprioritize him), or up b to platform or ledge.
landing away from opponent can be tough, but marth is one of the easier characters to do it with.
he can wavebounce (b momentum reverse) and has good air speed.
If you have to land next to your opponent: fastfall and airdodge to the ground... this maximizes your invinsibility.
Also try to save your jump incase you need to gtfo... this is really important and useful
watch a video of mHAZE or pierce, when they get hit up, they try to get as far away as possible. Ally is another great example of this.