Ashunera’s Library - General Discussion, Q&A and Index

[Nidtendofreak]

I don't think it has enough hitstun to combo into anything more then a jab.....and I'd rather hit the guy with an utilt or something like that. If you use Dtilt, you are basically adding on a little bit more damage in front of the jab combo, and thats only at low %. At high %s, the dude will fly too far.

And if you hit them with the handle by mistake, they will fly away from you, instead of straight up. : \

It would be good for a change up I guess and free damage, but besides that....characters tend to fly too high for a follow up jab pretty quickly. I don't even know if Ike can recover fast enough for Jab to be a true combo out of it.

 

[Palpi]

Because RoK was extremely cocky, probably.
Not that he was a complete scrub or anything, but he always, always talked himself up to be more than he -really- was.
But Niddo, I think when he stopped posting was better than when he stopped playing. The posts and trash talk were all that got to me.


Anyway. I'm thinking about experimenting with Dtilt onstage as a punishing move at certain low-ish %s... IF people would fall into jabs or grabs afterward.

^ Idea or waste of time?

imo waste of time.

 

[comboking]

Waste of time sorry Brett

 

[Slaps]

Anyway. I'm thinking about experimenting with Dtilt onstage as a punishing move at certain low-ish %s... IF people would fall into jabs or grabs afterward.

^ Idea or waste of time?

well i dont have much input on this since the only uses for Dtilt on stage other than spiking would be like the very close knockback it gives.. like at the base of the attack where it can knock players out and away at a pretty big angle... i don't know if i saved the replay but one match i was in i accidentally Dtilted trying jab cancel and he was DIing towards me and hit the base of the Dtilt and got knocked almost directly to the right as if it were a Ftilt he died at like 80% or so

 

[Teh Brettster]

Hmm. I was just thinking if you have an opponent who air dodges after being hit a lot (this is a somewhat common habit), that could mean a free follow-up like a jab or grab, because they'll just fall into you. I never said anything about a true combo. Not at all.

Actually thinking about it now... I think I just wanted too badly to find a use for Dtilt onstage. I don't think it'd be much different from, say, Utilt, in that situation. I think I'll still try each of those in some friendlies if I get the chance sometime, to see if it will ever work against certain types of opponents.

But never mind that I'm trying. It probably won't work.

Edit--- Wow, when my attention is on anything else while I'm typing, I tend to repeat words a lot.

 

[Kirk]

It's only real use onstage would be at higher percents...using the sour spot. But really...why Dtilt when you could...Jab, Grab, Ftilt, Usmash, Fsmash even...

Bottom line is there are just better options.

 

[Teh Brettster]

Yeah. I just wanted more. Like instead of going straight to jabs, hit with a tilt and THEN get jabs for like 15% extra...
But the more I think of it, the more it seems like a terrible idea.

Oh well.

 

[Nysyarc]

I think Dtilt works just fine as that low-profile spiking option. Keep it fresh so it kills early if you catch your opponent planking the wrong way or recovering poorly. I don't use it for anything else, and so even people I play often will forget about it and fall right into it's trap from time to time.

I've found it's just about making them think you'll do something else. Throw them offstage, do an empty short-hop so they hold out a bit before double-jumping (thinking I'm going for a quick Dair or Fair) and then Dtilt them right as they do their late jump. Or if they hold out even longer, do a walk-off Dair. I'd say probably 50% of my edgeguards involve me trying some kind of a spike move, mixing it up of course. And it pays off because I'm successful probably 30% of the time, and the rest of the time I don't put myself in excessive danger.

So yah... Dtilt in my opinion should just be that seldom-used move that your opponent fears because they'll never know when it will strike off-stage. I love the mind-games it allows for in combination with Dair and Aether spikes. If your opponent is wary of all three, it can really make them hesitant about their recoveries.

/pointless rants

 

[san.]

I was messing with this stuff before my break, but I'm basically working on following opponents in the air with nair juggles, best fast fall air dodge to jab times, and using up air for kills.

According to the updated stats topic from tactical discussion boards, Ike is tied for 7th for fast falling. That means that Ike can fall faster than at least 20 other characters, and fall not much slower than the 6 or so above him. That is why Ike should be able to follow people in the air without much effort.

Also, Ike should be able to, at will, fast fall + air dodge at an amazing speed into jab or grab in many instances. I haven't really tested this out much since I returned.

Ike's nair outranges many moves, so against such range, many opponents must try to avoid it with an air dodge, but smart following in the air+good use of nair will help you get successive hits where the opponent can't get away from the attacks. Up air can juggle a little bit, and can get kills.

Nair- First and foremost, I recommend attack stick for ease of spacing with nair.

When you're facing them, it's best to start nair when the oponent is in front and above you, and end it when the opponent is either behind you or "on" you.

Facing away is a little harder(but better for mixups w/ up air). Essentially, you have to start it in the position above (and a little bit behind) you where the beginning hurtbox of nair begins. Then, just keep the opponent ontop of you or very close behind you.

Regular nair followups also apply, such as bair, (pivot)grab, jab, etc.
It's not that hard to hit people that falls faster than you with this (unlike up air)

Up air-
IMO, it's best to use this when facing AWAY from the opponent, because the ending hitbox seems to last longer around that area, and the hitbox seems longer/more portruding (if anyone could provide frame data or w/e, that'd be cool).

It's a bit harder to hit than nair,because you have to keep the opponent in a more constrained position, but you can get really easy kills in the air, and you don't have to worry about many things outranging this. it's very good when people are falling towards platforms, so one can actually get consecutive up airs on multiplatform stages like battlefield.


Teh Brettster:
I would love dtilt a lot more if people were in the right position to set one up, but they never are, so I have to do all the setting up myself . You could try messing with dtilt I guess, but I think there are just more efficient uses of your time that could be used.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Juggling nairs are really good against warios. They can't really get past them but it might also make them camp you out more which isn't really much of a problem anyways since fair works well in those times.

 

[YagamiLight]

I had a fairly hilarious match a while back that a friend of my just uploaded (at my request) the last 11 seconds of (the funny part!). It's a WiFi friendly match but for the last kill it certainly doesn't matter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqYxrkW0_ns

Enjoy.

 

[san.]

Juggling nairs are really good against warios. They can't really get past them but it might also make them camp you out more which isn't really much of a problem anyways since fair works well in those times.

Yes, warios get well acquinted with nair, lol. I really only have trouble getting a kill hit on a camping wario at high percents, although the last time that happened was on corneria (when it was still legal), so on other stages, it might be easier.

I really do think nair is Ike's most useful aerial, though.


Yagami: That was funny. Kinda scary though, since the MK was still able to shuttle loop like that.

 

[Kirk]

Yagami: That was funny. Kinda scary though, since the MK was still able to shuttle loop like that.

I believe it was an Uair. It's fast enough to get a hit in(2 frames) and Shuttle loop would have sent you at a horizontal trajectory and MUCH farther away.

 

[bob37898]

Alright. I am trying to do the Dair spike but even if I can pull it off I fall way to far below the stage to recover. Ive been watching Rykoshet and he does with with very little fall and makes it back to the stage EASILY. Any tips on how to do this? And is there anyway to do a Quickdraw cancel in midair? I just got reversed by Mario's cloak costing me a game...

 

[Teh Brettster]

Alright. I am trying to do the Dair spike but even if I can pull it off I fall way to far below the stage to recover. Ive been watching Rykoshet and he does with with very little fall and makes it back to the stage EASILY. Any tips on how to do this? And is there anyway to do a Quickdraw cancel in midair? I just got reversed by Mario's cloak costing me a game...

Setting C-stick to "attack" instead of "smash" will get rid of fastfalling when you Dair with C-stick. You'll have to get used to playing with attack stick, but... DO IT. Seriously. It's more than worth it. Ike just plays better with tilt stick.

And here's now to QD cancel:
Instead of EVER pressing over+B.... wait.. and then press UP+B.
(Aether is better. QD should only be used in a few situations. In the rest, you should always use Aether.)

 

[FrznSaber]

Alright. I am trying to do the Dair spike but even if I can pull it off I fall way to far below the stage to recover. Ive been watching Rykoshet and he does with with very little fall and makes it back to the stage EASILY. Any tips on how to do this? And is there anyway to do a Quickdraw cancel in midair? I just got reversed by Mario's cloak costing me a game...

The most commonly used method of walk off Dairs without fast falling would be using the C-stick (when it's set to attack), but if you don't want to change your control scheme, you can always press diagnol down with the joy stick and use the c-stick down (bit harder to get used to).

As for canceling quickdraw in the air, it can't be done; unless you're playing Balenced Brawl that is.

 

[bob37898]

Alright. THanks to both of you. I will adjust my C-Stick. I was actually using the control stick... and Teh Brusterr I was using quickdraw in the middle of final destination uncharged...

 

[bob37898]

Oh. Is there a way to go directly from stage to ledge with falling and a midair jump?

 

[Teh Brettster]

Alright. THanks to both of you. I will adjust my C-Stick. I was actually using the control stick... and Teh Brusterr I was using quickdraw in the middle of final destination uncharged...

Oh. Well. Don't use QD as an approaching attack. Bad idea, as the cape showed you. But even without cape... it's an unsafe move with horrendous ending lag. Do not ever let your QD be predicted. For real.

Oh. Is there a way to go directly from stage to ledge with falling and a midair jump?

You mean just.. standing on the stage and going straight to grabbing the ledge? Just stand on the edge and do like a semi-circle with your control stick. Forward, to go off the stage, down to fastfall, and back to get close enough to grab the ledge. Do it very quickly. You'll just snap to the ledge, easy as pie.


Oh, and try to avoid double-posting. Just edit the first one next time. =]

 

[bob37898]

Sorry and thank you. Im still learning all the tips and tricks of Ike and Brawl.

 

[Nysyarc]

Im still learning all the tips and tricks of Ike and Brawl.

Well, you've got the right idea, keep asking questions. We're always happy to give constructive answers to constructive questions

 

[metroid1117]

Well, you've got the right idea, keep asking questions. We're always happy to give constructive answers to constructive questions

Yeah, post any questions you have here, just don't make a new thread . Also, if you have any videos you want to have critiqued, post them at the critiquing thread and we'll try to give you some tips.

 

[Kirk]

I'll throw my opinion out there, I wouldn't be forcing anyone to change cstick to attack just for one little trick, especially if they are new.

Naturally there are people who play better with it set to attack, but the default control scheme works just as well for others. Don't force yourself on any one because you can do a neat trick with it.

I suggest you try both schemes out and see which fits best for you. You may not like having your cstick for tilts...or maybe you will, that's why you should test both out. I personally can not stand 'attack' stick...i need my cstick for smashes and SDI. xD

tl;dr - Try both cstick schemes first. Pick whichever you feel most comfortable with.

 

[Nysyarc]

I personally can not stand 'attack' stick...i need my cstick for smashes and SDI. xD

Not being able to SDI is probably the only thing I don't like about the attack stick, but it's a big thing. When I used to play Melee and when I first got Brawl, I never used the c-stick for smash attacks, I always just used my control stick and A. So I find it simple enough to do my smashes like that and if my c-stick is on tilts, it means I can do things like Jab -> Utilt and Jab -> Dtilt much easier. And I can also Dtilt immediately from a standing position, which comes in handy for edge-guarding more than you'd think.

I dunno, I like the attack stick better but that's just my opinion. There are advantages and disadvantages to both, and I know a lot of Ikes who use the smash stick and a lot who use the attack stick and they all do well.

 

[Palpi]

Jab-> d-tilt? ....

..Easier?

 

[PeppyWil]

I've been trying out attack stick myself, and it's great for the middle level of play (me), the people who don't SDI much because our reaction time isn't good enough. XD But for high level of play, I can't comment, because I'm not there. Personally, I'm going to be sticking with attack stick until it becomes a problem, IF it becomes a problem. Like Nysyarc said, it could go either way, as each way has ups and downs. If only c-stick down didn't fastfall with smashes...

 

[Marauder]

Default wins. Learn to walk-off Dair manually.

 

[comboking]

Can't you SDI with the control stick? I believe you can.

 

[Kirk]

@marauder - personal preference.

@comboking - Yes. Having c-stick in addition to control stick makes your SDIability(lol?) more efficient. More inputs = more SDI.

 

[Nysyarc]

Jab-> d-tilt? ....

..Easier?

Meh, I find I sometimes Dsmash when I try to cancel and do it manually. Just inputting the Jab and then c-sticking down is as easy as it gets. Besides, I play WiFi a lot and it's hard to time cancels, so having to input less buttons means less things to buffer which means more successful moves.

 

[Rorar]

Sup guys its me again and my Ike has been steadily improving and I wanted to thank you guys for answering my questions and helping me with my Ike but I have a few more questions and I hope you guys don't mind.

1. How can I hit with a DA after a b-throw?

2.How can I hit with B-air more? I am having a really hard time with this as most see it coming and I am currently trying jab cancel to b-air but its harder online well thanks in advance guy

 

[Nysyarc]

Sup guys its me again and my Ike has been steadily improving and I wanted to thank you guys for answering my questions and helping me with my Ike but I have a few more questions and I hope you guys don't mind.

1. How can I hit with a DA after a b-throw?

2.How can I hit with B-air more? I am having a really hard time with this as most see it coming and I am currently trying jab cancel to b-air but its harder online well thanks in advance guy

1. I've found it's pretty situational. It is a true combo on a lot of characters (or all characters, I haven't tried personally) but only at certain percents. If in-depth testing has been done, I haven't heard about it so I'll just say that it is a safe and sometimes guaranteed follow up as long as you do it quickly. Bthrow and then immediately dash and buffer the DA by tapping down on the c-stick as soon as you start the dash, that's how I do it anyways.

2. I use Bair only in certain situations as well. Using it out of shield is great, if you shield or spot-dodge something and your opponent is behind you, tap jump with the control stick and c-stick the Bair so you land with no lag, at low percents you can follow it up with a Jab -> other stuff. I sometimes use it for edge-guarding, since it comes out very quickly. You can hit Fox and Falco out of their illusion with it for example, and it's a safe way to do it because it auto-cancels so you aren't left vulnerable.

For Jab -> Bair, I jab and then hold back on the control stick so it buffers the turn-around, then I push up as soon as I turn and immediately tap back on the c-stick to buffer the attack. It's a very fast sequence of inputs but it becomes second nature if you practice enough. Don't use it too often though, it's not guaranteed and it should only be done if your opponent is DIing up. I only use it at higher percents to KO, but I use Bair a lot as an OoS move and sometimes as an approach if my other approaches are getting predictable.

 

[Marauder]

Am I the only person here who still RARs lol

*RAR=Reverse Aerial Rush

 

[Melfice z]

im quite sure im one of the only people here who uses onstage qd's :s

 

[Kimchi]

Well, my first post on the boards in about 2-3 days. Good news, I got a computer virus, and I'm currently using Firefox in Safe Mode. It sucks, so don't expect me to update the guide in about a good 2-3 days. Hopefully, I'll be able to get rid of this annoyance soon. @ A_B and metroid, I love the idea for the OP. Go for it.
@ Brett/san/whoever wants to play me on Wi-Fi: I quit to study :D. Don't expect me on Wi-Fi for about a goooooooooood 4-5 months, which will be during February/March of 2010.
Oh, and here's my secret to winning on Wi-Fi :D.

 

[Palpi]

jab-dtilt isnt even close to legit.

 

[Nysyarc]

Oh, and here's my secret to winning on Wi-Fi :D.

jab-dtilt isnt even close to legit.

 

[comboking]

Well, my first post on the boards in about 2-3 days. Good news, I got a computer virus, and I'm currently using Firefox in Safe Mode. It sucks, so don't expect me to update the guide in about a good 2-3 days. Hopefully, I'll be able to get rid of this annoyance soon. @ A_B and metroid, I love the idea for the OP. Go for it.
@ Brett/san/whoever wants to play me on Wi-Fi: I quit to study :D. Don't expect me on Wi-Fi for about a goooooooooood 4-5 months, which will be during February/March of 2010.
Oh, and here's my secret to winning on Wi-Fi :D.

Offtopic: ITS OVER 9000!

Ontopic: I know Kirk I was just saying that you still can if you just can't WOD without Attack Stick.

 

[metroid1117]

2. I use Bair only in certain situations as well. Using it out of shield is great, if you shield or spot-dodge something and your opponent is behind you, tap jump with the control stick and c-stick the Bair so you land with no lag, at low percents you can follow it up with a Jab -> other stuff. I sometimes use it for edge-guarding, since it comes out very quickly. You can hit Fox and Falco out of their illusion with it for example, and it's a safe way to do it because it auto-cancels so you aren't left vulnerable.

For Jab -> Bair, I jab and then hold back on the control stick so it buffers the turn-around, then I push up as soon as I turn and immediately tap back on the c-stick to buffer the attack. It's a very fast sequence of inputs but it becomes second nature if you practice enough. Don't use it too often though, it's not guaranteed and it should only be done if your opponent is DIing up. I only use it at higher percents to KO, but I use Bair a lot as an OoS move and sometimes as an approach if my other approaches are getting predictable.

Just to add: anyone who knows what Ike can do acknowledges that his BAir is one of his best moves, having both great speed and power while still having good range. Because of this, a lot of times you can bait airdodges just by RAR'ing and then jumping up to your opponent (with your back turned) then punish them with a BAir. UAir works as well if they are too high for BAir.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

bored and brett use Uair pretty sick in teams you guys should record some videos next time you team and upload them.