Ashunera’s Library - General Discussion, Q&A and Index

[Teh Brettster]

Roflz you're not rooming with Dojo, Slappy. I am.

 

[Slaps]

Roflz you're not rooming with Dojo, Slappy. I am.

Melee1 is the best player in Texas, he was just not on the power rankings because he has a job and rarely shows up to things so they didn't count him... I have seen plenty of videos of Melee1 beating Dojo

 

[Kimchi]

I have a question about general DI. Is the Quarter Circle DI only useful for Vertical Recoveries or does it serve some use for air dodging when recovering horizontally?

 

[Dojo]

Melee1 is the best player in Texas, he was just not on the power rankings because he has a job and rarely shows up to things so they didn't count him... I have seen plenty of videos of Melee1 beating Dojo

Lol, really because I'd like to see those.

I've played him about 5 times in tourney.

He beat me the very first time back in Summer 08 in his Dallas tourney during the winner's finals. I then came back and beat him in both sets of the grand finals winning the tourney.

Since then I've played him at Hobo 13, Oh Snap, and FS5. Every set was 2-0. So, show me those videos of where he's beaten me. I'd love to see them.

 

[Max Ketchum]

Lol, really because I'd like to see those.

I've played him about 5 times in tourney.

He beat me the very first time back in Summer 08 in his Dallas tourney during the winner's finals. I then came back and beat him in both sets of the grand finals winning the tourney.

Since then I've played him at Hobo 13, Oh Snap, and FS5. Every set was 2-0. So, show me those videos of where he's beaten me. I'd love to see them.

Ahem.

Get *****, please.

 

[Melee1]

Theres no reason to argue guys dojo has done really well against me and is one of the very few players that has learned to approach my iceclimbers and Dojo is number 1.. Im very good too but not the best i will have to prove myself at W-Hobo It changes constantly but im flattererd people consider me a solid player.. Texas is already scary enough and if u want to do a 5 dollar money match dojo lets throw down XD

 

[theeboredone]

well iono why you guys arguing. RoK could take you guys....
.....
...........
......................In street fighter?

Anyways, A_B, contact me on AIM ASAP cause we need to talk about a few things regarding WHOBO

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

I am also confused. Did you mean to type that?
And I'm guessing we won't really see much of each other outside of the venue, then?

we'll get to see each other a good bit infact if you can drive me and bored around I can stay in the hotel with you guys for hours until we want to go to sleep.

I have a question about general DI. Is the Quarter Circle DI only useful for Vertical Recoveries or does it serve some use for air dodging when recovering horizontally?

wow you scrub... QCSDI has nothing to do with horizontal or vertical recoveries. It is mainly used to get out of combos or multi hit moves like you can QC behind G&W's turtle and bair him. It can help with recovering if you QC towards the stage that way you will have more distance to cover between you and the deathzone.

dojo if I'm in your pool again and I get you first seed you better give me a shout out this time. I was really sad when I didn't get any recognition in final smash =\

 

[Palpi]

You can QCSDI out of the 2nd hit of lucario's dair. I never remember to do it. Next time I play I am not gonna win, I am just gonna try to QCSDI everything so I remember to do it.

 

[Kimchi]

Snake uses QCDI in order to survive the death zone horizontally :X. So I wanted to ask.

 

[Atria]

Umm...Hey I have a question. When I manage to grab the ledge after I recover from an attack, are there any useful options I can use to get rid of/get past my opponent successfully? The only options I can think of is that when the opponent is too close to the ledge, I can either Fair them or Aether them to knock them away. However, if my opponent is at a good distance away from the ledge, I sometimes find it hard to get back on stage. >B them works sometimes, but it's hard to do out of a ledge grab easily and is often predicted by better opponents. Is there anything else I can do or is there nothing in particular?

Also, does Ike have any good moves OoS? I sometimes use Nair, but is there anything else I can use? Thanks for the help.

 

[Rykoshet]

Get up? Jump?

 

[Atria]

Get up? Jump?

Those are considered safe options too however, once I'm above 100%, it takes slightly longer for Ike to climb back on or jump onto the stage which makes it easier for my opponent to knock me off back onto the ledge. It's especially annoying against characters like Marth and MK who are good at intercepting characters coming back on to the stage. Maybe I should mix up my attempts to get back on the stage more?

Oh, I should probably mention too, was Nair even a good move for me to use OoS in the first place or should I be using something else?

Also, Lol at your post count.

 

[Palpi]

Ledge hop air dodge or attack off ledge if they are close or mind game it up with the reverse quick draw thing. That is a bit confusing to watch lol.

 

[Alukard]

i like ike =D

annnnndddddd ryko does too =]

 

[furiousduffmanx]

Arturito Burrito the creator of this thread does NOT use ike any more!!! *runs and hides* Its a fact though

 

[Slaps]

I'm not sure if you meant this when you said you could fair but, I quite frequently Fair onto the stage from the edge... It usually prevents opponent from hitting you depending on the character you are up against, but then again they could perfect shield/running shield it and grab you... other possibilities that i occasionally use either on purpose or accident sometimes is Dairing onto the stage but that probably wouldn't be a good idea, the Fair on stage is really the only advice i could give... I know Ryko made a video on Fair vs. Nair onto stage see if you or someone can find it...

 

[comboking]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vrytPv9Oq8&feature=related There you go

A_B really quit Ike?

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Arturito Burrito the creator of this thread does NOT use ike any more!!! *runs and hides* Its a fact though

lol is my super sick snake so scary that your trying to get me to use my other characters more.

I haven't used Ike in doubles in months now but we also haven't played singles in a long time. When its just me and richard I play a lot of Ike way more than MK and snake but you guys are just lazy scrubs that don't want to pull out another wii/tv.

And some are just stupid not wanting to use tio for a fun mini tournament, calling double blind picking time johns when we can just put the character we are using next to our names before the bracket is up.

 

[metroid1117]

Snake uses QCDI in order to survive the death zone horizontally :X. So I wanted to ask.

I think Havokk used QCSDI improperly in that video. Here's what the guide on DI says:

SDI

SDI is an acronym for Smash Directional Influence. The SDI can only be used during hitlag, which means that the time frame to do it is very small. SDI can be achieved by pressing any direction during hitlag, making you travel a short distance in that direction(and I mean teleport, since you move instantly in 1 frame every time you SDI). You cannot hold a direction before the hit to get SDI on some of the frames. The main point of SDI is to compensate as much as possible for the knock back you are gonna receive after the hit simply by hitting in an opposite direction. This would mean that if you get hit by an attack like fox's forward smash, which has a near horizontal knock back. This would mean that if fox sent you to the left, you would need to go to the right this way when you get the knock back you are actually farther from the DZ(death zones around the screen). It is important to note that you cannot SDI onto the ground to force a tech when you're on the ground, but in the air, this is very doable to reduce knock back. Since there are multiple hitlag on all of the attacks in the game, it is technically possible to SDI more than once in a hit. However since holding a direction does not count as an actual input for SDI, if you want to SDI to the left twice, you would have to press left, let go of the joystick, then press left again within a very small time frame. This can therefore be very tricky, but since SDI only registers new input there is a way to avoid such impracticalities by doing QCDI.

QCDI

Quarter Circle Directional Influence is actually SDI but used in a slightly different manner. Since the joystick only registers new input, we can do a quarter circle in a specific direction to do the equivalent of 3 times SDI in a specific direction. This means that if we get hit and sent in an upward direction, you know that you should SDI downward. Therefore you would have to do a quarter circle in a downward direction, which would be either down left, down, down right, or in the opposite order. The reason why this works is because you can consider each of these inputs as a vector form force, which would mean that your actually pressing down 3 times, pressing right once and left once. This would mean both horizontal directions would cancel out, leaving only 3 downwards input(this is only true if you do not collide with the ground during those frames, since you really will move to the left and THEN to the right, which means overall it cancels out). This all has to be done within the hitlag or else those inputs will be useless(just slide the control stick in a quarter circle).Many people asked me why not a half circle DI, but the answer is actually quite simple. Not only would it take more time, thus decreasing your chances of successfully doing it, but it also only adds horizontal or vertical vectors/input that cancel each other out. This can be seen as below.

tl;dr: QCDI is essentially SDI'ing in a quarter circle fashion (hence the name "quarter circle"). SDI can only be done during hitlag, but in the video you posted Snake was clearly not in hitlag. I'm not sure what exactly Havakk was doing when he said he was QCDI'ing, but I think he was just fastfalling, since he said he was hitting up->right->down.

 

[san.]

I wonder how many moves we can QCDI (or just DI) out of and punish? I think it's pretty possible on DK's up B, especially since it's easy for Ike to outrange. I can do things like that, but I'm not sure how many are guaranteed hits.

 

[Atria]

I'm not sure if you meant this when you said you could fair but, I quite frequently Fair onto the stage from the edge... It usually prevents opponent from hitting you depending on the character you are up against, but then again they could perfect shield/running shield it and grab you... other possibilities that i occasionally use either on purpose or accident sometimes is Dairing onto the stage but that probably wouldn't be a good idea, the Fair on stage is really the only advice i could give... I know Ryko made a video on Fair vs. Nair onto stage see if you or someone can find it...

Oh, I meant that when the opponent is right on the edge of the stage like literally standing above your head, I move away from the stage and either use aether or Fair to swat them away. and then aether back on to the ledge. (Not if I used aether originally though to attack them.) I didn't think that Fairing onto the stage was reliable because of the landing lag you get from Fair. I didn't even think about using Nair at all because I didn't think a hitbox would come out at all before I landed on the stage. That video was good. However, it looks like they are hard to do because I noticed that the person jumped sometimes when I think that they didn't really want to. I think I should practice it then.

Is it mandatory to have the C-Stick set to tilts in order to do that though or is that only for the Nair? Also, does Ike have any good moves to use OoS or is there nothing in particular? Thanks.

 

[Slaps]

sorry i forgot what OoS is lol isn't it like Out of ______(blank).... and usually if the opponent is all up close like literally above me I either go for a short hop Dair(if the person is that close the hitbox will get them) or Uair.... Uair has quite some range on the edge especially PS1 and is better then Fairing because it hits them up instead of towards the furthest edge, seriously try Uair under PS1's stage lip it is awesome considering its range of hit under there, but I'm not a complete pro so I'm sure someone will yell at me saying its stupid or something lol

and yes it is mandetory to have c-stick tilt to Nair while directionally moving.

 

[metroid1117]

Oh, I meant that when the opponent is right on the edge of the stage like literally standing above your head, I move away from the stage and either use aether or Fair to swat them away. and then aether back on to the ledge. (Not if I used aether originally though to attack them.) I didn't think that Fairing onto the stage was reliable because of the landing lag you get from Fair. I didn't even think about using Nair at all because I didn't think a hitbox would come out at all before I landed on the stage. That video was good. However, it looks like they are hard to do because I noticed that the person jumped sometimes when I think that they didn't really want to. I think I should practice it then.

Is it mandatory to have the C-Stick set to tilts in order to do that though or is that only for the Nair? Also, does Ike have any good moves to use OoS or is there nothing in particular? Thanks.

No, you can do edgehopped NAirs without having the C-stick set to tilts. Iin fact, you can survive edgehopped NAirs without landing on the stage if you time it right; it's all about pressing jump and NAir'ing as soon as you let go of the edge.

Jab and grab are Ike's best options from shield to hit opponents in front of him. Behind him, it's BAir and turnaround jab.

sorry i forgot what OoS is lol isn't it like Out of ______(blank).... and usually if the opponent is all up close like literally above me I either go for a short hop Dair(if the person is that close the hitbox will get them) or Uair.... Uair has quite some range on the edge especially PS1 and is better then Fairing because it hits them up instead of towards the furthest edge, seriously try Uair under PS1's stage lip it is awesome considering its range of hit under there, but I'm not a complete pro so I'm sure someone will yell at me saying its stupid or something lol

and yes it is mandetory to have c-stick tilt to Nair while directionally moving.

OoS = Out of shield.

In my opinion DAir isn't that safe; jabbing comes out much faster than DAir ever will (plus you have to factor in the time it takes for Ike to leave the ground). UAir'ing people off-stage is certainly a viable tactic so long as you're killing them and not helping them back onto the stage.

He asked if it was possible to edgehop NAirs without the C-stick set to Attack; no, it is not mandatory to do so for edgehopped NAirs (I used to practice edgehopping NAirs while I had my C-stick set to Smash, but I never applied it).

 

[Slaps]

I'm talking edge hop not short hop Dair and Uair... srry for misunderstanding... But also he was asking about what to do when you are on the edge and there is opponent literally above you on the stage.

 

[Atria]

I'm talking edge hop not short hop Dair and Uair... srry for misunderstanding... But also he was asking about what to do when you are on the edge and there is opponent literally above you on the stage.

I already know how to deal with characters who are literally standing on my head because I can just let go of the edge and either Fair or aether them. However, I don't think Uair would be a bad move to use either. It's just when my opponent is not too far or too close to the ledge I had problems dealing with. But that video I was shown was good so now I know how to deal with that. I just need to practice being able to do so.

Lastly, would Nair also be a good move to use OoS or isn't it as good as the Jab or Bair when your opponent is either behind or in front of you?

 

[Kimchi]

I think Havokk used QCSDI improperly in that video. Here's what the guide on DI says:



tl;dr: QCDI is essentially SDI'ing in a quarter circle fashion (hence the name "quarter circle"). SDI can only be done during hitlag, but in the video you posted Snake was clearly not in hitlag. I'm not sure what exactly Havakk was doing when he said he was QCDI'ing, but I think he was just fastfalling, since he said he was hitting up->right->down.

What does "tl;dr" mean? And you're probably right about QCDI. It's just that it seemed to make a lot of sense to me when Havakk started talking about QCDI in momentum cancelling that I thought I wasn't using QCDI when I should have been using it. But now I have another question. Would Havakk's interpretation of QCDI in that video be useful for Ike at high percentages? Since Ike doesn't fast fall as fast as Snake when he DAirs, would "QCDI" still save Ike?

 

[Rykoshet]

"Too long; didn't read" so basically "Long story short"

 

[PhantomX]

I'm gonna make it my business to beat all the TX Ikes in a set at least once before WHOBO is over <3

 

[Palpi]

With wario or ike dittos?

 

[theeboredone]

I'm gonna make it my business to beat all the TX Ikes in a set at least once before WHOBO is over <3

Haven't played a Wario in a looong time. This should be good.

And ****...it feels like time has stopped or somethin...WHOBO is still in 4 days.

A_B, You play Snake? I want to try playing it. Lately, my roomie has been going neck and neck with me, and I'm wondering if it's cause he just knows how I play now or if he magically got good. Cause I played Snake for the first time in a match with him and I took him to his limits xD.

Also, I am also interested in this QCDI thing. Is it appliable to Ike or for some reason, it only works with a small range of chars?

 

[Rykoshet]

It works with all characters.

 

[san.]

Surprised so many people didn't know about it. That's another reason why I can use attack stick without worry and don't necessarily have to rely on cstick for SDI if I can do it fine with the control stick in most (90%+) cases.

 

[Slaps]

shouldn't be too hard to beat PX we all just gotta work on the infinite grab release on wario =] someone post up link to Kirk's analysis of the infinite since I am at school and can't get to youtube....

 

[PhantomX]

shouldn't be too hard to beat PX we all just gotta work on the infinite grab release on wario =] someone post up link to Kirk's analysis of the infinite since I am at school and can't get to youtube....

You'd be surprised how many times I hear this... and laugh when it fails. "Oh, we just need to get a grab and we kill you at 110" *lives to 190* "****."

 

[Atria]

Also, I am also interested in this QCDI thing. Is it appliable to Ike or for some reason, it only works with a small range of chars?

Well apart from that new thread on DI shown in the tactical discussion, I thought this one could be of interest for some people. I personally ask about DI, SDI and QCDI from a video I watched and I learned quite a bit. It also has some stuff on air momentum canceling too. The thread gets better as it goes along IMO however.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=215532

shouldn't be too hard to beat PX we all just gotta work on the infinite grab release on wario =] someone post up link to Kirk's analysis of the infinite since I am at school and can't get to youtube....

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=201243

Isn't it good to be on holidays?

You'd be surprised how many times I hear this... and laugh when it fails. "Oh, we just need to get a grab and we kill you at 110" *lives to 190* "****."

I knew Wario was bad with grab releases to begin with, but why does he and Squirtle to a lesser extent suffer so much against them? I had a look at frame data recently and it looks like all characters when released from a grab take about 51 frames until they recover. So I don't really get why...(Except DK when he is ground released... >_> Also, I don't think I should be asking here...)

Oh, thanks for the help earlier guys. Much appreciated! I'm going to write a guide soon BTW.

 

[Palpi]

I am pretty sure it his animation out of the release. This is why ike can infinate wario with a air release pivot grab.

***No one has been in the mirc channel for a while now.

 

[theeboredone]

Due to some unforseen events occurring, good luck with all the Ikes at WHOBO, not just TX. I hope one of you guys get out of pools...if you don't then I'm gonna have to wreck everyone -_-

 

[comboking]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFFjfQ-SGl0&feature=related Kinda Entertaining

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

I 2 stocked CO18's snake with Ike today =) Fsmash ftw.