Ashunera’s Library - General Discussion, Q&A and Index

[Kimchi]

It's not because I personally suck at the matchup. It's because the matchup is really, harder than most people think. ZSS has her armor pieces which she can keep on the stage for a pretty long time. She has her speed against Ike, projectiles that stun, and a great spacing tool. I think it's really safe for me to say that ZSS is Ike's worst matchup, even worse than Falco and Olimar. Hell, even Renegade admitted that ZSS is a tough matchup.

 

[Palpi]

I am more scared of a falco than an ZSS but, i do agree both are hard. Worse? I dunno.

 

[san.]

ZSS is bad, but nothing that makes it worse than 6-4 ZSS in my opinion. Ike also has ways he can use ZSS' items in annoying yet effective ways, too, and there isn't anything (or at most much) that make the matchup too god awful, like falco or olimar.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

We can use her armor pieces as well (DACIT fun oh boy!), she has a fair bit of trouble KOing us, and it's FAR from being worse then Olimar or Falco. It may be closer to 35-65 then 45-55, but it's not nearly as difficult as you are saying. You simply have the best ZSS in your area, of course it's going to seem harder. >_> He's going to know EXACTLY what he is doing.

 

[Max Ketchum]

If you thought Snakeee's armor pieces were annoying, try playing Dazwa.

That mother****er is ridiculous with them.

 

[metroid1117]

It's not because I personally suck at the matchup. It's because the matchup is really, harder than most people think. ZSS has her armor pieces which she can keep on the stage for a pretty long time. She has her speed against Ike, projectiles that stun, and a great spacing tool. I think it's really safe for me to say that ZSS is Ike's worst matchup, even worse than Falco and Olimar. Hell, even Renegade admitted that ZSS is a tough matchup.

Are you playing ZSS's over Wi-Fi? I thought ZSS was an impossible match-up when I fought them over Wi-fi, but I can't really say for sure because I haven't played anyone good who uses ZSS.

 

[theeboredone]

ZSS on Wifi is so stupid and annoying that it pisses me off. But you should keep these things in mind when playing one.

Her only kill moves are...

The flippy hop kick thing (Up-B?)
Forward - B

Oh and A_B...Money match?

 

[Max Ketchum]

Not true. ZSS can kill with uair, bair and fair as well. Also, the flip kick is down B.

You're also guaranteed to get hit with one of those if you get dsmashed.

 

[Palpi]

doom in ike boards? blasphemy. (see my main icon...FINALLY) And yes, from just maybe 7 times watching snakee he has prolly killed with a bair each time. I personally enjoy dsmash jump over bair.

 

[san.]

I always thought ZSS was much worse on wifi...

 

[metroid1117]

I always thought ZSS was much worse on wifi...

She's a nightmare over Wi-Fi (for me, at least), you can't powershield her stun gun properly and you try to go from the air she'll just UAir you. Her side+B becomes amazing at zoning when you can't airdodge it out of reflex consistently.

Random comment: I nearly cried when I saw Snakeee's match versus DSF on Lylat Cruise (it was the tournament where Ninjalink and Mew2King had that big set, I forgot the name); Snakeee had broken DSF's shield, did 3 DSmashes, but DSF (being Snake) was at such a high % that Snakeee mis-timed the BAir and lost the match (and the set, since Lylat was his counterpick).

 

[Palpi]

East coast regional circuit C3 i think.

I officially stopped maining ike, though Ike boards will still be my most active spot, because Ike boards are totally legit.

 

[san.]

(I've only played a hanful of ZSS users online, such as a person named speculosity, so I'm not sure how much say I have in this.)

I believe it's harder for ZSS to string aerials on wifi, even though they seem to come out pretty fast. There's also an adequate chance that the ZSS will mess up an attack after stun instead of near 0% offline. Based on positioning, it's easier to tell what the ZSS is going to do next compared to the ZSS predicting you. It just ends with the ZSS just whipping out attacks and hoping he'll hit to be honest, so it's easier to reach higher percents with Ike.

 

[Kimchi]

No, I've played ZSS offline before. Don't remember the guy I played though, but I got wrecked.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

so many people take into account there own match up experience when they have trouble with a character. At least you aren't arguing with wifi experience and saying it doesn't change anything though.


are you sure your abusing ZSS' weaknesses though? yes shes good at spacing but doing that removes her best kill move, If the ZSS is using side b to build up damage then you only have to watch out for her aerials and her down smash which sets them up.

Shes also very light so a quick Bair and an angled ftilt should put her in a possition to be edge guarded early which is very easy, you just hang on the ledge and if she tries to go over you drop down aether for a free 20% or a possible spike which she can't recover from.

 

[Teh Brettster]

^ What he said.
And power shield power shield power shield. Punish poorly timed charges.
Items. Don't let her use them. Predict when and where she'll throw them-- they don't always throw directly towards you. Just catch what she throws with an AD and use it to your own advantage.

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WHOBO= 4 days. WTF.

 

[Slaps]

ZSS I don't find many problems with, occasionally i will have some difficulty with her but usually the only safe choice for a ZSS is to use up-B to grab the edge instead of that wierd jump that can spike lol... If she does end up going for the jump to recover just U-tilt or Eruption or U-smash....

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YAY! WHOBO IS ALMOST HERE!!!!!

at the hotel I am going to need to be taught/help with DACIT because I have never done that before and never really learned it, the closest thing to that i know is snakes DAC

 

[Palpi]

ZSS will use the jump to get closer to the ledge or to hit you off the ledge, a half decent player won't just flip right into you. That is dumb.

Plus if you know or think that a tether is a safe option, speed hug the edge right before the recovery for a gimp.

 

[Slaps]

ok lol.....
------------------
LMAO at Ike discussion title!

 

[san.]

Hey, what does everyone think for brinstar as a good anti-metaknight stage for ike? it has low boundaries everywhere and obstacles that can help ike rack damage up pretty well.

 

[Max Ketchum]

MK gets gimps like crazy off the side platforms and camps under the stage like a *****. Plus, his up B kills really early off the top platform. Not a good idea at all.

 

[Alukard]

i use it ... because the lava saves u from gimps =]

 

[san.]

how can you get gimped when the sides are so close? if you mean KO'd off the side, it's not hard to just SDI up. Besides, you're probably going to stay inside the middle. Can MK camp underneath the stage well if the stage is broken? Ike has more killpower than MK does.

 

[Max Ketchum]

Trust me, Brinstar is not a stage to pick against Meta Knight. Yes, I do mean KOed off the side, but it'll happen way earlier than normal due to the sides being so close. Even if you DI up, the trajectory that aerial Shuttle Loop sends you at is so ridiculous. He camps underneath it well regardless of it being broken or not, yes.

 

[Kimchi]

I just find it really annoying when I'm forced to approach against a ZSS. I'm up in the air and trying to approach with a spaced Fair, the ZSS just goes back and Side B's me. QD's definitely not a viable approach, empty short hopping becomes really old, and shield dashing/rolling towards her is just silly, because I end up getting DSmashed. I only found Bair to be of real use for me in this matchup strangely rather than Fair.

 

[san.]

I'm sorry to hear that kimchi. Maybe being more cautious in whipping out an fair could help? And is dash shield really ineffective?

 

[metroid1117]

I'm conflicted as to whether Brinstar is a good CP against MK. Doom brings up some good points, but I would've thought that the lava would help a lot in the match-up; it prevents you from getting gimped and it might help you get some free damage on MK. The kill zones would probably help MK more than Ike, since he just has such an easier time getting hits off in general. Then again, the kill zones would also prevent him from using his amazing recovery to the fullest...

But yeah, he'll be able to camp you on the bottom like a b****. He can just dash around where you will land and shield so he can grab or DSmash you when you land (shieldgrab if you go for the aerial).

 

[Max Ketchum]

No, what I'm saying is that he can camp UNDER the stage with uair, up B and tornado. Not on the bottom level. It's really gay and Ike can't do anything about it.

 

[theeboredone]

No, what I'm saying is that he can camp UNDER the stage with uair, up B and tornado. Not on the bottom level. It's really gay and Ike can't do anything about it.

Similar to what an MK can do at Delfino or Halberd...except on those two stages, you can't count on some lava to rescue you =/. In my honest opinion, good MK's will just **** you from underneath platforms/stages. Maybe the typical MK you can take on, but don't bet on it against a good one.

 

[Max Ketchum]

Lava isn't doing Ike much good other than setting him up to get uair -> tornado killed off the top, or up B'd. It solves his recovery issue, but doesn't really help in the big picture.

 

[Ussi]

How about Ike is not a good character to use against MK... Pirate Ship is like the only stage Ike would stand a chance.

 

[Teh Brettster]

If the stage is legal, I'd pick Corneria against an MK. Just avoid tilt locks.

Too bad it's not legal at WHOBO.

 

[Palpi]

It should never be legal. Half the stages "we" talk about in the stage discussion I will never play in a tourney on the whole east coast. It is a bummer since Ike owns pirate ship.

 

[Kimchi]

Dash shield helps work as an approach for me sometimes. I can get up close and personal and jab cancel, grab, and all that good stuff. But once the ZSS gets away from me again, it's a ***** to try to get close again. It's like playing Wolf for me. Once I get close, I do fine, but from a distance, I'm so hard-pressed to approach. My god, Wolf and ZSS are utter nightmares. I already might play Snakeee's ZSS in a tourney soon. I just hope I don't play a good Wolf.

 

[theeboredone]

I cannot be playing bad upon going to Whobo. Must get better and break slump. NOW!

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

I cannot be playing bad upon going to Whobo. Must get better and break slump. NOW!

only 3 more days, also we're staying at a days in which is like the midway point between the tournament and the rest of el paso. I'll just bring you along after we leave friday whobo but we won't be able to stay up playing brawl all night =\

 

[theeboredone]

only 3 more days, also we're staying at a days in which is like the midway point between the tournament and the rest of el paso. I'll just bring you along after we leave friday whobo but we won't be able to stay up playing brawl all night =\

Well, I'm a firm believer of getting good rest so I can play better the next day. And I don't understand. The hotel is going to be inbetween the tourny and El paso? Isn't that like...far? lol...

So we will go to Friday pools, come back to hotel, wake up early and go to Whobo oN Saturday right?

 

[Teh Brettster]

I am also confused. Did you mean to type that?
And I'm guessing we won't really see much of each other outside of the venue, then?

 

[theeboredone]

I am also confused. Did you mean to type that?
And I'm guessing we won't really see much of each other outside of the venue, then?

Oh yea, Brett, we need to figure out when you're gonna come get me and all that stuff so we don't waste any time on Friday.

 

[Slaps]

awwwww... i thought we would have all the Ikes in the same hotel =[ oh well we will get to play at the tourney A_B =].... Oh well I'm rooming with the best player in Texas so it should be good practice for me since i haven't played in a week and a half...=[

@Brett- if you haven't gotten my txt... Call Melee1 immediately!