SaltyKracka
Smash Lord
Actually, that's really fast. The fastest grab in the game is Ganon's, and that only comes out in 13 frames.
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Ashunera’s Library - General Discussion, Q&A and Index
- Thread starter Arturito_Burrito
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Ussi
Smash Legend
ZSS's grab is 17 frames Kirk lol. Tethers are slower anyways.
Salty, I don't think you have the right data cause Ike's standing grab is 7-8 frames 0_o
Salty, I don't think you have the right data cause Ike's standing grab is 7-8 frames 0_o
SaltyKracka
Smash Lord
No, I mean that's how long Ganon's grab is. As in, once Ganon grabs, he can shield 13 frames later. Or I might just be wrong. That's more likely.
hotgarbage
Smash Lord
I assure you that they are
. They were obtained using the "classic" method of capturing video at 30fps interlaced and then bob-deinterlacing to separate the fields and get 60fps. I know where you're coming from in regards to wanting to see it yourself though... I'm the same way xP. And yeah, you're right about nair -> jab. It's probably possible with the right spacing, but it would most likely require near frame-perfect performance; whilst the nair -> spododge allows more room for error because of the spacing (notice how in the gif I spaced like a moron and I hit with the nair 2 frames early, but was still able to spotdodge with room to spare). Also if ike spaces well etc. he should be able to roll after the nair as well (obviously
).Hm, I'm getting frame 11 myself..... here's what I'm seeing:
Note that for the first two frames of the gif oli is in his idle animation.
Ussi
Smash Legend
I thought we were discussing when the grab landed not the afterlag.
hotgarbage
Smash Lord
I was curious how viable nair-> jab against Olimar would actually be so I tested it out a bit.
The answer?
Not very viable at all.
Nair -> spotdodge works out so well because of the nature of Olimar's grab; in that it's relatively slow moving (it reaches max length on frame 25 or so). This combined with decent spacing allows a fairly comfortable room for error.
When Ike jabs however he nearly completely comprimises his spacing. This is because his jab thrusts his hurtbox forward... and in this case into olimar's already activated grab. That said with frame perfect timing and near perfect spacing it could be possible... but regardless not practical, especially in a heated tournament match. The best I was able to do is this:
Despite my ideal spacing (I wanted to keep him in jab range after the hit) and only being one frame off with the nair the jab only traded hits with the grab.
So yeah, nair ->jab isn't a good idea. Rolling forward may not be either because I imagine you'd move forward some before invincibility kicks in (I'm too lazy to test it now ).
The answer?
Not very viable at all
.Nair -> spotdodge works out so well because of the nature of Olimar's grab; in that it's relatively slow moving (it reaches max length on frame 25 or so). This combined with decent spacing allows a fairly comfortable room for error.
When Ike jabs however he nearly completely comprimises his spacing. This is because his jab thrusts his hurtbox forward... and in this case into olimar's already activated grab. That said with frame perfect timing and near perfect spacing it could be possible... but regardless not practical, especially in a heated tournament match. The best I was able to do is this:
Despite my ideal spacing (I wanted to keep him in jab range after the hit) and only being one frame off with the nair the jab only traded hits with the grab.
So yeah, nair ->jab isn't a good idea
. Rolling forward may not be either because I imagine you'd move forward some before invincibility kicks in (I'm too lazy to test it now ).
Ussi
Smash Legend
With what you did it's just resetting the position. I wonder though what is the frame advantage for Ike after that situation?
How hard is it to get nair to land the moment you hit with it?
How hard is it to get nair to land the moment you hit with it?
SaltyKracka
Smash Lord
Oh, then in that case I have no idea. Probably faster than that, though.
hotgarbage
Smash Lord
?_____? What do you mean here?
You mean after a nair on shield? The optimal shield advantage would be -9. Note that by "optimal" I mean that the nair hits and the next frame ike lands.Ussi said:
Well doing so requires you to hit with a very specific part of the attack (perhaps even to a frame) while at a very specific height (about to touch the ground). It's pretty unrealistic to expect to do that every single time, but it's actually not difficult to get very very close consistently.Ussi said:
NinjaLink
Smash Master
he means both chars are next to each other in neutral position.
Kirk
Smash Champion
Look at what teamwork can accomplish! Ike sure does fight for his friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKiCbOZncaw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKiCbOZncaw
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2008
- Messages
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I was very sure that the grab came out on frame 14. The Olimars need some frame data testers. >_<
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
.....Dude, Kirk......you have WAAAAAAY too much time on your hands..... @_@
Kimchi
Smash Ace
Thanks a lot Ryko. About that walkoff Dair, it's actually still fresh in my gameplay. Over all this time, I've been debating on whether I should use the default stick or the "Attack" Stick and during that time I was at Pierce's house , I decided to go with the Attack for some walkoff Dair shenanigans while I was playing you. Hmm, and when you say counterdiving, do you mean countering another character's recovery while letting go of an edge?
Arturito_Burrito
Smash Master
counter diving is like on the last page or 2 and its just countering to go under water from what I got, not sure if its useful but ryko says it might save you from a spike so idk.
Ussi
Smash Legend
Since the confession thread got closed, I'll post it here:
I no longer main Ike
good day all of you.
I no longer main Ike
good day all of you.
SaltyKracka
Smash Lord
Traitor!!!
Arturito_Burrito
Smash Master
man that blows why are you giving up on Ike just because of a dry spot? A lot of times some people just go through bursts of getting betters it was only a matter of time before on of them had one and the other didn't.
Are you telling me that your Ike was never better than your pikachu?
Are you telling me that your Ike was never better than your pikachu?
YagamiLight
Smash Champion
Ussi
Smash Legend
yea, I am.
I can't play Ike anymore. >_> 3 weeks of melee and no brawl killed it.
My Ike game went to the pits, that I play random better, and my Pikachu game is has improved a lot from playing melee.
:\ Instead of trying to relearn Ike I'm just gonna further Pikachu's game.
I can't play Ike anymore. >_> 3 weeks of melee and no brawl killed it.
My Ike game went to the pits, that I play random better, and my Pikachu game is has improved a lot from playing melee.
:\ Instead of trying to relearn Ike I'm just gonna further Pikachu's game.
Arturito_Burrito
Smash Master
pikachu has anther you have no hope of advancing it beyond him! don't just leave Ike behind it's you thats just play to aggressive with him. I'm not even sure that works with pikachu either but how did you even notice you got better if you never get any brawl pratice?
Aurorazoni
Smash Journeyman
Well at least aren't dropping him....I hope. You're our only Green Ike user D:. If you give up Ike completely then...o.o I'll have to use Green Ike in your place.
Ussi
Smash Legend
Burrito already took green from me.
And how did you know I used green ike o_O??
And how did you know I used green ike o_O??
Aurorazoni
Smash Journeyman
*whistles* :x I played you backwhen you were in your Wi-Fi phase. You were apart of of some Paletuna clan
And you're not supposed to just let someone have your color. xD You're supposed to say "No, that's my color, and I'm staying Ike to keep this color"
And you're not supposed to just let someone have your color. xD You're supposed to say "No, that's my color, and I'm staying Ike to keep this color"
Ussi
Smash Legend
if anything, I'm part of high voltage (Pikachu clan) o_O.. and still am.
Well, you can have green Ike. I have green Pikachu (lol)
Well, you can have green Ike. I have green Pikachu (lol)
Aurorazoni
Smash Journeyman
xD But I wanted you to stay Green Ike. And you still are.
So yea, main Ike, Pika shall be your faithful secondary.
Ussi
Smash Legend
When Pikachu is already doing better for me >_>;; I'll just switch it around.xD But I wanted you to stay Green Ike. And you still are.
Aurorazoni
Smash Journeyman
Fine, it's a deal <.<
Kishin
Smash Ace
Ike's up throw, use it or no? The guide doesn't say much about it. Does up-throw have less less lag than D-throw or anything?
YagamiLight
Smash Champion
Here is a list of throws ranked by usefulness:
Back Throw
Down Throw
Forward Throw
Up Throw
Back Throw chaingrabs Bowser and most of the time combos into a Dash Attack, depending on the character and the percent they are at. Down Throw gives you a bunch of time to launch an assault and you have them in a nice positional advantage. Fthrow can wall infinite. UThrow can't really do much that the others don't do.
Kishin
Smash Ace
Hmmm, so there really isn't anything special at all about up-throw? I thought it might have some mechanic with it to make it harder to DI away or something. Maybe I'm just imagining things...
Anyways, it seems as if there's no list of a whether or not a character can be hit with a quick draw hanging on the ledge.
Anyways, it seems as if there's no list of a whether or not a character can be hit with a quick draw hanging on the ledge.
Aurorazoni
Smash Journeyman
I wouldn't risk quick drawing people on the ledge. It's like throwing a stock a way. Oh and Yagami. Bthrow can also wall infinite. xD On PS1.
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
Uthrow's only use is setting up aerial assaults when the opponent is at too high of a % for Dthrow to work well. As in, Dthrow is almost KOing them.
And Ussi, you better still use Ike as a secondary. Seriously, you're just in a momentary rut. And Ike doesn't take long to relearn either. It's not like if you had forgotten how to do everything with Sonic or Link. >_> You can probably get him back up to par within 2 days of practicing.
So it goes...
By the way, is there a link or something to the percentage where bthrow-->dash attack works?
Arturito_Burrito
Smash Master
just go with like 50+ although I think its a bit lower than that, it changes from character to character.
Actually it probably won't combo on character like jigs.
Actually it probably won't combo on character like jigs.
Chis
Finally a legend
I can't seem to pull off the wall infinite constantly... Help?
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
Um.....press the grab button faster? I not really sure what you can have trouble with there, minus knowing when to stop because the next throw will bounce them too far out. You just have to get into a rhythm.
YagamiLight
Smash Champion
I'll try to compile a list of percents. For most characters you can do it around 20-30 percent, with Bowser and Ganondorf you can do it at 0% (Though you'll be chaingrabbing Bowser instead!).
For all practical purposes it: Works on all the heavies, works on all non-slow falling midweights and lightweights. It works on Meta Knight, for example.
Arturito_Burrito
Smash Master
are you sure yagami? I recall a few ocations where MK just jumps out of it and olimar just shielding it at pretty good percents.
If I'm wrong thats a nice set up possibility Nair >spot dodge> grab > bthrow > dash attack > easy edge hog.
If I'm wrong thats a nice set up possibility Nair >spot dodge> grab > bthrow > dash attack > easy edge hog.
YagamiLight
Smash Champion
I'll retest Olimar and Meta Knight again in just a little bit. It's just a simple case of pressing up every single frame, if he midair jumps at any time then it's not a combo (with some minor exceptions). Expect results up in a while.
EDIT:
Tested some of Ike's bad match-ups:
Meta Knight can't jump.
Falco can't jump.
Dedede can't jump.
Olimar CAN jump (though Olimar is no longer as bad
!).Lucario can't.
Marth can't.
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