Ashunera’s Library - General Discussion, Q&A and Index

[san.]

That's not a 0 death trap. olimar just needs to air dodge o_O he'll definitely be getting some damage when trying to recover though. Bthrow to dash attack is so helpful in getting an immediate offstage.

To aether drag, your opponent has to be on the ground, so I'm a little confused there o_O., but it's really just a combination of keeping him up in the air, keeping up your jabs, etc. ike is so powerful, olimar gets knocked offstage with ease. That may not be an edgeguard, but it's certainly some free damage and positional advantage.

Ike can get close without hitting olimar's shield with an aerial. There's also hitting the shield when olimar is facing the other way, too. It's too restrictive to think of one situation, one moment, and think that that's the only thing that can happen. One thing I do say is that it's another one of Ike's options taken away, so he's a little bit more predictable, but that one thing shouldn't make it 30:70. 30:70 is MK, no doubt as of now.

Olimar is just an egg yoke behind the hard shell, and is not impossible to beat once you find the gimmick and crack it.

 

[Palpi]

CP frigate against olimar. I enjoy frigate as ike, and frigate ***** olimar

I know kimchi had close matchups with icylight at viridian 5. He is a top EC olimar.

 

[-RedX-]

I thought Bthrow -> Dash attack was a true combo so he can't airdodge it -.-
And I thought aether dragging was when you aether away from the ledge to "drag" them down.

 

[Teh Brettster]

When he said air dodge, he didn't mean Bthrow to DA. He meant the Aether.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=254443
Everybody vote for LT singles. =D

EDIT: Actually, don't. Bored and I will probably just get in trouble.

 

[-RedX-]

*Feels dumb*

And can I vote for no? >.>

 

[Palpi]

then bait the airdodge and punishing accordingly

 

[san.]

Palpi-- That's exactly what I said lol. Damage yes, but definitely not a guaranteed 0-death, although you are in a pretty nice position to try to keep the olimar from coming back. Ike has the tools to zone out olimar when he's trying to recover back to the stage.

 

[Palpi]

Oops. The way I said it was cooler. XD

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

lol at port priority

Get out of here you quit brawl remember?

It's the reverse aspect of grab priority: mainly that we have a better change of stopping one of their grabs with a jab. If they have priority, they take %dg, we get grabbed. If we have priority, they don't grab us and get knocked back.

I don't think it works like that because grab priority isn't something that over rides moves its just when to grabs clash one person will win.

What your thinking of is grab armor like when you Fsmash and they grab you they get no knock back like super armor which is why its called grab armor lol. This doesn't have to do anything with ports.

And even if it did olimar doesn't have grab armor so you can interrupt his grabs even if your port 1000000000000000 X 2

Learn the game Jesus Christ

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I could have sworn port priority effected grab armor. ;_;

It's not like I could really test it, nobody in SA uses Olimar, ICs, or D3. And Sethlon rarely plays in SA, and he's the only guy who really uses Falco...>_>

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

You can test it with any character lol if it works on pikachu and sonic then it works on anyone with a grab. Only one that could be different would be tether ones which i think would just **** you with out the possibility of hitting them and olimar you'd go through it.

And yes it does effect grab armor but only if you are hit by a 3rd move so for example you grab ness and then a bombomb explodes next to you the one with the higher port won't take knock back.

But if any of your moves trade hits with a grab then they'll just super armor it.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

>_>

<_<

I was partly right at least! And I'm still right about Snake! Don't want him to have port priority. Ever.

 

[PhantomX]

I still think it's silly you guys think Ike has only a 45:55 on Wario.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I still think it's silly you guys think Ike has only a 45:55 on Wario.

It's not changing until proven otherwise.

And no, coming to SA and destroying me wouldn't count. If you didn't destroy me, I'd say it's Ike's advantage. >_>

And can you pin Kirk's Ike Data topic? The one with all of the lovely frame data and hitbox images?

 

[theeboredone]

It's not changing until proven otherwise.

And no, coming to SA and destroying me wouldn't count. If you didn't destroy me, I'd say it's Ike's advantage. >_>

And can you pin Kirk's Ike Data topic? The one with all of the lovely frame data and hitbox images?

Px kicked my butt pretty hard. Wario is an annoying match up, and you have to space like no other to have a good chance of doing damage. Also, Wario probably has the second best gimping options on Ike next to MK and maybe Pit.

Definitely not 55:45, more like 60:40. Could possibly be even 65:35 Wario's advantage. I did better against Razer at Hobo then I did against Px.

 

[san.]

I dunno. I'll need a bit more convincing to believe it's 40:60 in favor of wario.

How does wario gimp ike?

 

[Nidtendofreak]

>_>

That's one opinion. San thinks Olimar might be 4-6, but I'm not seeing that one either.

 

[san.]

I think it's 35:65, but I wouldn't be surprised if my mind sways to 40:60 =(
At least if I could understand if there were reasons other than you can't hit his shield with fair.

 

[PhantomX]

Wario has a ton of disruptive moves that can gimp you offstage should you make the slightest mistakes and, due to Ike's weight and lack of quick aerials, many of those can combo into footstools (weak nair hit and fair can lead to footstooling). This also doesn't factor in bike gimping which is fairly easy to setup as well. Wario can also just chase low in general to footstool b/c bike recovery is broken.

Fair walls can get you if you mess up, if you try to fair offstage he can airdodge it into a strong nair hit and you die, if you go low he can weave around your sword and fair poke/nair you once again (under the stage). Really, Wario likes people that recover low and aren't MK/GW. Plus, any mistake in spacing can get you wafted on, and if you try nair stuff and miss you get bitten which leads to being placed offstage. You also can't spotdodge or shield often or that will get bitten as well.

 

[Rykoshet]

I think it's 35:65, but I wouldn't be surprised if my mind sways to 40:60 =(
At least if I could understand if there were reasons other than you can't hit his shield with fair.

Anything*

Not just fair, anything. Olimar shields, you touch it, you're getting tossed around. In practice once you know the matchup it's not really THAT bad but it's still ike's second hardest matchup by faaaaaar.

 

[-RedX-]

But as soon as Ike get's a grab on Wario and knows how to do the infinite....
>.>

 

[Kirk]

Name a single person who can or has done that in an actual tourney match.

 

[-RedX-]

Well, can't you do it? You were the one who discovered it lol
I just think of it as an IC CG, except it's with Ike on one matchup.

 

[PhantomX]

I think the most number of times I've ever been regrabbed by someone doing the pummel infinites is 4 times, and that's with Yoshi who doesn't even have to move to do it, and it was at like 70%

 

[FrznSaber]

Name a single person who can or has done that in an actual tourney match.

Does he have to be real?

 

[Nidtendofreak]

But as soon as Ike get's a grab on Wario and knows how to do the infinite....
>.>

1) Grab -> Utilt is a lot more legit. Solid way to rack damage or KO, but...

2) Wario is the only character who can truly play the "don't get grabbed" game and get away with it most of the time. Jab to Grab can still get him, but it's a pain.

 

[Kirk]

Well, can't you do it? You were the one who discovered it lol
I just think of it as an IC CG, except it's with Ike on one matchup.

I made that video, yes. That was against a dummy, for demonstrational purposes. In an actual match, with variable release times, and having to be essentially 100% accurate, it's not feasible. At least in my opinion.

I've stuck with release --> Bair for damage racking, and saving utilt for a KO. From what I can remember...

 

[Teh Brettster]

I've re-grabbed Wario twice. That's my record. Of course, I never practiced it or anything. But I never dared try it in tourney after that.
It is nice having a choice between Utilt, Ftilt, and Bair for the grab release though. But let's get over that much. You're not going to grab Wario extremely often. It's really hard to say that the match-up is even. Okay, it's not the worst, but it's still annoying. I'd call it a good 6-4. Maybe leaning a little toward 65-35 rather than 55-45.

(I usually save an angled Ftilt for the kill, depending on location on the stage. I just try to think of which of my moves are diminished and which aren't and use what works accordingly.)

 

[Palpi]

I seriously have not jab-grabbed anyone with ike experience in like 6 months.

 

[-RedX-]

I made that video, yes. That was against a dummy, for demonstrational purposes. In an actual match, with variable release times, and having to be essentially 100% accurate, it's not feasible. At least in my opinion.

I've stuck with release --> Bair for damage racking, and saving utilt for a KO. From what I can remember...

Would it be easier if the Wario used his second jump?

And another question: Will grab release on edge to full hop dair spike Wario? Or can the Wario DI towards the stage?

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I seriously have not jab-grabbed anyone with ike experience in like 6 months.

learn2jabgrabbetter.

It's a true combo in standing grab, pivot grab, and I believe dash grab. >_>

 

[Palpi]

They can jump out of dash grab and I was exaggerating, but whenever I watch people play ike they DI jabs towards the ike, which allows for the jab-grab to work. It is not guaranteed based on DI and character weight, but it seems like the people i play with ike, just DI away, making jab-grab difficult.

 

[Teh Brettster]

So finish the combo or chase them. Instead of talking about how Jab to Grab doesn't work in general.

And Niddo. The only true combo we have is Jab1 to Jab1.

 

[Nysyarc]

And Niddo. The only true combo we have is Jab1 to Jab1.

I've actually had a Peach and a Jigglypuff escape Jab 1 -> Jab 1, and not because I did it too slowly. They could have been at the edge of my jab range for the first hit and DId it away I guess.

But I've never had anyone escape Jab 1 -> Jab 2 -> Jab 3 as long as they don't start right on top of you (so they could DI behind the Jab 3). Also Nair -> Bair and Bthrow -> DA are obviously situational true combos.

 

[Palpi]

situational true combos? lol

nair to bair is not a true combo.

Kimchi didn't bloodcross jab you from your bthrow to dash attack?

Brett..... That is why I don't even attempt jab grab, unless they are DI'ing towards me after my jab1, jab1.

 

[PentaSalia]

you guys still fight high tiers with ike ?D:

*chooses ike*
*finds out who my opponent mains"

"oh this guy uses xxxx..."

*switches to G&W*

this is the situation 99.9% of the times x_x

*fail ike* lmao


and edit:
the wario infinite thing is hard to pull IMO =/
if i do get a grab on him,i just go grab into utilt for some good damage
i'll go for regrab if i'm ahead or something lol

 

[Renegade TX2000]

i don't...

 

[PentaSalia]

Ren,idk why you stopped x_x

you had respect from alot of peepz

 

[PhantomX]

65:35 is probably pushing it if both players are playing exceedingly safe.

60:40 in Wario's favor is probably more accurate.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

So finish the combo or chase them. Instead of talking about how Jab to Grab doesn't work in general.

And Niddo. The only true combo we have is Jab1 to Jab1.

Ugh, blast it I keep forgetting about that 1 frame where they aren't in hitstun. Not that it lets them dodge anything unless they have a frame 1 invincibility move. >_>