Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
burrito! hobo 21 is dec 12th!!!!!! i made a hread for it in the southwest sectionI'll see what i can do its all the way in like January right? I heard there's no hobo on Decembers.
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Ashunera’s Library - General Discussion, Q&A and Index
- Thread starter Arturito_Burrito
- Start date
- Status
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
theeboredone
Smash Legend
I won't be going to HOBO 21 cause that's a week before or the week of Exams. Gotta study for that stuff.
As far as the D-Smash thing goes, I still need to confirm it since I only tried it a couple of times (discovered it on accident at Hobo). Will let you guys know, when I get a chance to test it out again.
As far as the D-Smash thing goes, I still need to confirm it since I only tried it a couple of times (discovered it on accident at Hobo). Will let you guys know, when I get a chance to test it out again.
Slaps
Smash Lord
I'm Jewish... idk if I wanna see Jesus!
You will get HYPED and you will like it!
ooooh... 2 days after my b-day! =] lol... I expect all the Ikes going to do extra well for me =] as my present! lol
Teh Brettster
Smash Master
I will also not be attending HOBO 21. Christmas shopping to be done + finals right after that. Time and money will be keeping me from going.
Arturito_Burrito
Smash Master
it does sound like a hard week to make it in I might have to pass on that offer till 22 xyro I'll see what everyone else thinks about it though.
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
>_>
<_<
Speaking of Dsmash: has anyone else managed to land both hits during a tournament match? Or am I just lucky?
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
woudnt it be good for people who roll?
Burrito, pirate ship is even on the stage list....just for you!!!!!!!
theeboredone
Smash Legend
Up-Smash is better. D-Smash is practically useless, because Up-Smash can do the same stuff, but better.
Teh Brettster
Smash Master
I tested your Dsmash thing, Bored. But it was much earlier today and I've been out with friends all night and I can't quite remember the results.
I remember it definitely worked.. -sometimes-. I just can't remember when it worked and when it didn't, lol. And that's what we were looking for. I may try it out again tomorrow.
Basically, I tried to find out if jabbing beforehand was necessary, and it... sort of is? I mean, if they roll either way or spot dodge immediately, I think the 2nd hit always connected even if the first didn't. Even if we set up with a jab, though, Marth/MK can get out, of course.
But no matter what, it basically stops working before Dsmash will actually kill uncharged (unless your opponent decides to DI awfully). This is, however, the result of only a couple VERY quick and not extremely thorough tests-- so results could change, really. And if you can manage to connect it, it could be a good way to rack up just a bit more damage before the stage changes.
Eh, for anyone wondering, it regards the left side of the tree in PS1 in the fire stage formation.
Situational. Yes. Very.
I remember it definitely worked.. -sometimes-. I just can't remember when it worked and when it didn't, lol. And that's what we were looking for. I may try it out again tomorrow.
Basically, I tried to find out if jabbing beforehand was necessary, and it... sort of is? I mean, if they roll either way or spot dodge immediately, I think the 2nd hit always connected even if the first didn't. Even if we set up with a jab, though, Marth/MK can get out, of course.
But no matter what, it basically stops working before Dsmash will actually kill uncharged (unless your opponent decides to DI awfully). This is, however, the result of only a couple VERY quick and not extremely thorough tests-- so results could change, really. And if you can manage to connect it, it could be a good way to rack up just a bit more damage before the stage changes.
Eh, for anyone wondering, it regards the left side of the tree in PS1 in the fire stage formation.
Situational. Yes. Very.
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
Holy crap, I accidently did something good!
Of course, the time I do is the time no Ike mains are going to a HOBO because of finals. >_> I have finals that week as well + no money.
FrznSaber
Smash Journeyman
Life can be so cruel. Not to mention that I should be done with finals by then but I wouldn't have nearly as much money that I need to travel to there, and my skill level isn't up to par.Holy crap, I accidently did something good!
Of course, the time I do is the time no Ike mains are going to a HOBO because of finals. >_> I have finals that week as well + no money.
theeboredone
Smash Legend
Well I don't think jabbing is necessary, because the whole concept is to keep using F-throw, and whenever you want to finish it up, D-throw to D-smash.
Teh Brettster
Smash Master
Sigh. Good job telling me about Dthrow before now. Eh. Testing to be done again soon, then.
theeboredone
Smash Legend
I told you this on AIM yesterday lol. Stop getting wasted on a school day.
Arturito_Burrito
Smash Master
lol idk why but somehow i guessed that it had to do with exactly that part. Maybe i had thought about this before or just the fact that so many things work in that spot that end up setting up really well and down-smash seems to fit in there. I wonder if anything else works that way too though maybe some other attack like the dtilt sweet spot.
edit: Xyro your really making it hard for me I really want to go but i can't confirm anything yet
edit: Xyro your really making it hard for me I really want to go but i can't confirm anything yet
Teh Brettster
Smash Master
I don't drink! Or smoke! I was too busy accomplishing nothing at WalMart and then having an extremely long conversation with several friends about this:
http://www.charmingmanblog.com/2008/06/02/31-reasons-why-being-a-nice-guy-sucks/
Which turned into an idea for a documentary on TJ and me meeting women and being COMPLETE ***** to them instead of how we usually are, and seeing what happened after x amount of time compared to what usually comes of our nice guy nature.
Which turned into a long conversation about the WEIRDEST things to do while meeting women-- for fun. I now have a list of things we might try and videotape.
Like walking up to her table at the cafeteria and just putting your food in your pockets while talking to her.
Or walk up with sunglasses on at night, indoors, and insisting over and again that no matter what, she DOESN'T want to see you take them off.
Or.. we have a little ringtone that beeps out the "Go go Power Rangers" tune... setting that off and saying you have to go. And then possibly coming back in a Power Rangers suit and saying, "That takes care of that."
I could see some of these ideas being pretty funny.
But no, I was not getting wasted. I don't do that.
And I'll test with Dthrow sometime. Unless you get around to it first.
Palpi
Smash Hero
Stop lying Brett. We all know you were totally ****ing blastoised last night.
theeboredone
Smash Legend
****, I need a 90 flat on my final exam to get an A- in Physics. -_-
Kind of sucks that UT Austin has the +/- grading system now :\
Get used to lots of borderline A/B moments though, I became close friends (enemies?) with them, lol.
Get used to lots of borderline A/B moments though, I became close friends (enemies?) with them, lol.
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
Plus minus system is so lame. XD
theeboredone
Smash Legend
If only I was 4 years older. I wouldn't have to deal with this crap.
Austin Crew has invaded Ike's discussion.
Austin Crew has invaded Ike's discussion.
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
*!*
You mean the weird people who put up signs like "Keep Austin Weird!" or that warning about zombies?
Awesome.
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
Meh, double posting for the sake of starting conversation.
How does everyone feel the match-up ratios are right now? A '*' beside a MU Ratio means that port priority plays an important factor in this match-up.
S Tier:
Meta Knight 3:7
Snake 4:6*
Wario 45:55
Falco 3:7*
Diddy Kong 45:55
King Dedede 3:7
A Tier:
Marth 35:65
Mr. Game & Watch 45:55
Pikachu 4:6
Olimar 3:7*
Ice Climbers 55:45*
R.O.B. 4:6
Kirby 4:6
B Tier:
Lucario 4:6
Zero Suit Samus 35:65
Toon Link 4:6
Pit 45:55
Donkey Kong 4:6
C Tier:
Peach 5:5
Luigi 6:4
Fox 5:5
Wolf 45:55
Sonic 5:5
Sheik 35:65
D Tier
Bowser 6:4
Zelda 6:4
Pokémon Trainer 55:45
-Squirtle: 65:35*
-Charizard: 45:55
-Ivysaur: 5:5
Ike 5:5*
E Tier
Lucas 55:45*
Mario 55:45
Ness 5:5*
Yoshi 5:5*
Samus 4:6
F Tier
Jigglypuff 6:4
Captain Falcon 6:4
Link 55:45
Ganondorf 65:35
How does everyone feel the match-up ratios are right now? A '*' beside a MU Ratio means that port priority plays an important factor in this match-up.
S Tier:
Meta Knight 3:7
Snake 4:6*
Wario 45:55
Falco 3:7*
Diddy Kong 45:55
King Dedede 3:7
A Tier:
Marth 35:65
Mr. Game & Watch 45:55
Pikachu 4:6
Olimar 3:7*
Ice Climbers 55:45*
R.O.B. 4:6
Kirby 4:6
B Tier:
Lucario 4:6
Zero Suit Samus 35:65
Toon Link 4:6
Pit 45:55
Donkey Kong 4:6
C Tier:
Peach 5:5
Luigi 6:4
Fox 5:5
Wolf 45:55
Sonic 5:5
Sheik 35:65
D Tier
Bowser 6:4
Zelda 6:4
Pokémon Trainer 55:45
-Squirtle: 65:35*
-Charizard: 45:55
-Ivysaur: 5:5
Ike 5:5*
E Tier
Lucas 55:45*
Mario 55:45
Ness 5:5*
Yoshi 5:5*
Samus 4:6
F Tier
Jigglypuff 6:4
Captain Falcon 6:4
Link 55:45
Ganondorf 65:35
Palpi
Smash Hero
Only minuscule changes, but im not even positive about them anyway..so..NOPE!
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
Post yours then. This is suppose to bring up minor debates, not just "Yep, Niddo's looks good." >_>
Unless I'm that awesome at analyzing things. XD
Unless I'm that awesome at analyzing things. XD
theeboredone
Smash Legend
These are the following I haven an issue with. Keep in mind, I think of these match ups in a tourny level. Not casuals.
Diddy Kong: 40:60
- They will camp you with their bananas and a lot of the matches will last for a good 4-6 minutes. You have to be very patient and make plenty of hard reads. Ike's room for error is very minimal against Diddy. Bananas can become overwhelming.
Ice Climbers: 40:60
- I play Hylian all the time, and again, we have very little room for error. It is very difficult to approach him. You have to super mind game, while at the same time making sure you don't get grabbed. Ike has no projectiles, and any smart IC player knows how to keep Nana and Popo together. IC's are pretty predictable with their approaches, but a good IC player will read you and get you into one of his grabs. It sucks. And trust me, spacing F-airs does not work all the time.
Kirby: 50:50
- I have yet to play a "good" Kirby. I've played two Kirby mainers, and 2-0 them both usually. All I can say is that it's very easy to space against them and they only have two kill moves (F-smash and the hammer). Yes they have that CG thing in the beginning, but not much of a threat afterwards.
Pit: 40:60
- Seeing how a true Pit main plays (Esca), he camps HARD. And when an opponent is constantly shooting arrows from the edge and making you wait things out, it becomes really annoying. Patience is key, and when you do get a chance to attack, you better hope you get a good amount of damage in. Pit only has a few kill moves, so those are easy to read. But like I said, at a tourny level, they camp hard.
Peach: 45:55
- I just think we need to be more precise with our spacing, otherwise, we get owned. Also, jab canceling doesn't work on her =/.
Sheik: 40:60
- She has speed and combos, but we can kill her pretty early while she can't. Just abuse N-air spacing, and you should be fine. I've played quite a few good Sheiks to know what to do against them.
Squirtle: 40:60
- I've played two PT mains. Zigsta and Magik. Both players are annoying with Squirtle, but at the same time, Squirtle is easy to kill, especially when you get them off stage. Eruption owns their recovery along with D-air.
Ivysaur: 60:40
- I'm sorry, but both Ivysaurs I've played, I end up ****** them. Get them off stage and you win lol. They have like one or 2 approaches.
Charizard: 55:45
-His grab range is stupidly long, but he's slower than us. Just don't get off stage for him to gimp us. He has a lot of slow moves for us to abuse with jab. He's not that hard to kill while he only has a few kill moves.
Jigglypuff: 55:45
-At a tourny level, these guys camp hard, and they can counter your attack with one of their own right after. Their moves are deceptive, and you have to be very patient against them. It's an annoying match up, because spacing is so important for both sides, but whoever does it better, wins the match.
Diddy Kong: 40:60
- They will camp you with their bananas and a lot of the matches will last for a good 4-6 minutes. You have to be very patient and make plenty of hard reads. Ike's room for error is very minimal against Diddy. Bananas can become overwhelming.
Ice Climbers: 40:60
- I play Hylian all the time, and again, we have very little room for error. It is very difficult to approach him. You have to super mind game, while at the same time making sure you don't get grabbed. Ike has no projectiles, and any smart IC player knows how to keep Nana and Popo together. IC's are pretty predictable with their approaches, but a good IC player will read you and get you into one of his grabs. It sucks. And trust me, spacing F-airs does not work all the time.
Kirby: 50:50
- I have yet to play a "good" Kirby. I've played two Kirby mainers, and 2-0 them both usually. All I can say is that it's very easy to space against them and they only have two kill moves (F-smash and the hammer). Yes they have that CG thing in the beginning, but not much of a threat afterwards.
Pit: 40:60
- Seeing how a true Pit main plays (Esca), he camps HARD. And when an opponent is constantly shooting arrows from the edge and making you wait things out, it becomes really annoying. Patience is key, and when you do get a chance to attack, you better hope you get a good amount of damage in. Pit only has a few kill moves, so those are easy to read. But like I said, at a tourny level, they camp hard.
Peach: 45:55
- I just think we need to be more precise with our spacing, otherwise, we get owned. Also, jab canceling doesn't work on her =/.
Sheik: 40:60
- She has speed and combos, but we can kill her pretty early while she can't. Just abuse N-air spacing, and you should be fine. I've played quite a few good Sheiks to know what to do against them.
Squirtle: 40:60
- I've played two PT mains. Zigsta and Magik. Both players are annoying with Squirtle, but at the same time, Squirtle is easy to kill, especially when you get them off stage. Eruption owns their recovery along with D-air.
Ivysaur: 60:40
- I'm sorry, but both Ivysaurs I've played, I end up ****** them. Get them off stage and you win lol. They have like one or 2 approaches.
Charizard: 55:45
-His grab range is stupidly long, but he's slower than us. Just don't get off stage for him to gimp us. He has a lot of slow moves for us to abuse with jab. He's not that hard to kill while he only has a few kill moves.
Jigglypuff: 55:45
-At a tourny level, these guys camp hard, and they can counter your attack with one of their own right after. Their moves are deceptive, and you have to be very patient against them. It's an annoying match up, because spacing is so important for both sides, but whoever does it better, wins the match.
** = different than Niddo's
S Tier:
Meta Knight 3:7
Snake 4:6*
Wario 45:55
Falco 3:7*
**Diddy Kong 40:60, Diddy's OoS options are just really good. I think we have more of a disadvantage than 45:55. He can also pressure us well. I do think we still have a lot going for us, though
**King Dedede 35:65-->40:60(depends on stage): Not taking stages into account, I think it's 35: 65. DDD don't got nothing on us in the air, but his damage racking ability and our inability to get safe early KOs on him detriment us, but we can actually mess with D3 offstage, and can actually do well vs him on the more gimmicky stages
A Tier:
Marth 35:65
**Mr. Game & Watch 55:45 - maybe I'm just biased, but GW just gets dwarfed by our range and KO power, even with bucket break. we outrange most of his smashes with ease too, so GW can't really use it as a spacing tool much.
**Pikachu 50:50 - I can see this matchup not being too bad for Ike. I would make it even, but pika has some good stages he can cp and camp vs ike. Ike's ground game and range puts it only at a slight disadvantage
**Olimar 35:65*-I need some more experience vs top olimars, but i just can't see it being worse than 35:65 or maybe even 40:60 tbqh... I need someone to help me convince myself
**Ice Climbers 55:45* i might put it even, not exactly sure
**R.O.B. 45:55 maybe 50:50, if you ban FD, I don't think there's that many stages ROB will be able to easily outcamp you. Ike beats ROB aerially, and ROB has trouble killing Ike. Fortunately, ROB doesn't need to worry much about killing early and would rather just get as much damage as possible while taking the least.
**Kirby 45:55 I'm inbetwen 40:60 and 45:55. I see it as Ike's disadvantage, but not by much. Kirby has good spacing tools, and good damage racking, even if you SDI his attacks. Fortunately, Kirby has nothing to really camp you with, therefore if you have the lead, it will be very hard to approach. Kirby also dies quite early.
B Tier:
Lucario 4:6
**Zero Suit Samus 40:60 i see it as a disadvantage, but not harder than snake o_O
**Toon Link 45:55
**Pit 40:60-- Pit can definitely outcamp you and damage rack a lot. Pit can lay down a lot of pressure
**Donkey Kong 50:50 -- I've played Donkey Kong many times, and I see this pretty much even. It's hard to explain this one, because they have a lot of things in common (even good cp stages). Each can capitalize on the other at any moment.
C Tier:
Peach 5:5
**Luigi 6:4-- i might put this at 55:45. Not sure if we have that big an advantage against him.
Fox 5:5
Wolf 45:55
Sonic 5:5
**Sheik 40:60 -- i don't think the advantages she has over Ike are enough to warrant 35:65
D Tier
Bowser 6:4
Zelda 6:4
Pokémon Trainer 55:45
**-Squirtle: 60:40-- 35-65 is nearing hard counter. squirtle has the tools to make it hard to get a grab on him, even with ike's jab
-Charizard: 45:55
-Ivysaur: 5:5
Ike 5:5*-- Ike destroys Ike
E Tier
Lucas 55:45*
Mario 55:45
**Ness 60:40* I've played many many ness mains, some who I think may be as good as me, and I just can't help seeing how Ike just has a plain advantage on them. grabs, jabs, range, Kill power
**Yoshi 55:45* Yoshi has grabs, eggs, nice aerial mobility etc, but Ike's range allows him to zone yoshi very well. Yoshi also has trouble killing Ike and can avoid getting killed until a high percent.
Samus 4:6-- I'm not sure about this. I have no samus MU experience, but after hearing about xyro and bored, I can't help but feel it's closer to even
F Tier-- meh don't care lol
Jigglypuff 6:4
Captain Falcon 6:4
Link 55:45
Ganondorf 65:35
S Tier:
Meta Knight 3:7
Snake 4:6*
Wario 45:55
Falco 3:7*
**Diddy Kong 40:60, Diddy's OoS options are just really good. I think we have more of a disadvantage than 45:55. He can also pressure us well. I do think we still have a lot going for us, though
**King Dedede 35:65-->40:60(depends on stage): Not taking stages into account, I think it's 35: 65. DDD don't got nothing on us in the air, but his damage racking ability and our inability to get safe early KOs on him detriment us, but we can actually mess with D3 offstage, and can actually do well vs him on the more gimmicky stages
A Tier:
Marth 35:65
**Mr. Game & Watch 55:45 - maybe I'm just biased, but GW just gets dwarfed by our range and KO power, even with bucket break. we outrange most of his smashes with ease too, so GW can't really use it as a spacing tool much.
**Pikachu 50:50 - I can see this matchup not being too bad for Ike. I would make it even, but pika has some good stages he can cp and camp vs ike. Ike's ground game and range puts it only at a slight disadvantage
**Olimar 35:65*-I need some more experience vs top olimars, but i just can't see it being worse than 35:65 or maybe even 40:60 tbqh... I need someone to help me convince myself
**Ice Climbers 55:45* i might put it even, not exactly sure
**R.O.B. 45:55 maybe 50:50, if you ban FD, I don't think there's that many stages ROB will be able to easily outcamp you. Ike beats ROB aerially, and ROB has trouble killing Ike. Fortunately, ROB doesn't need to worry much about killing early and would rather just get as much damage as possible while taking the least.
**Kirby 45:55 I'm inbetwen 40:60 and 45:55. I see it as Ike's disadvantage, but not by much. Kirby has good spacing tools, and good damage racking, even if you SDI his attacks. Fortunately, Kirby has nothing to really camp you with, therefore if you have the lead, it will be very hard to approach. Kirby also dies quite early.
B Tier:
Lucario 4:6
**Zero Suit Samus 40:60 i see it as a disadvantage, but not harder than snake o_O
**Toon Link 45:55
**Pit 40:60-- Pit can definitely outcamp you and damage rack a lot. Pit can lay down a lot of pressure
**Donkey Kong 50:50 -- I've played Donkey Kong many times, and I see this pretty much even. It's hard to explain this one, because they have a lot of things in common (even good cp stages). Each can capitalize on the other at any moment.
C Tier:
Peach 5:5
**Luigi 6:4-- i might put this at 55:45. Not sure if we have that big an advantage against him.
Fox 5:5
Wolf 45:55
Sonic 5:5
**Sheik 40:60 -- i don't think the advantages she has over Ike are enough to warrant 35:65
D Tier
Bowser 6:4
Zelda 6:4
Pokémon Trainer 55:45
**-Squirtle: 60:40-- 35-65 is nearing hard counter. squirtle has the tools to make it hard to get a grab on him, even with ike's jab
-Charizard: 45:55
-Ivysaur: 5:5
Ike 5:5*-- Ike destroys Ike
E Tier
Lucas 55:45*
Mario 55:45
**Ness 60:40* I've played many many ness mains, some who I think may be as good as me, and I just can't help seeing how Ike just has a plain advantage on them. grabs, jabs, range, Kill power
**Yoshi 55:45* Yoshi has grabs, eggs, nice aerial mobility etc, but Ike's range allows him to zone yoshi very well. Yoshi also has trouble killing Ike and can avoid getting killed until a high percent.
Samus 4:6-- I'm not sure about this. I have no samus MU experience, but after hearing about xyro and bored, I can't help but feel it's closer to even
F Tier-- meh don't care lol
Jigglypuff 6:4
Captain Falcon 6:4
Link 55:45
Ganondorf 65:35
Palpi
Smash Hero
I think Rob is just as hard as Marth.
Rob does decent against marth for similar reason marth does decent against most of the cast, and he also has projectiles. 60-40 atleast imo.
Rob does decent against marth for similar reason marth does decent against most of the cast, and he also has projectiles. 60-40 atleast imo.
PentaSalia
Smash Master
i;d say the G&W match up is 50:50 at most
he can still easily air juggle and gimp ike once he gets close enough.
One mistake from ike can lead to 30 or so % in damage lol
he can still easily air juggle and gimp ike once he gets close enough.
One mistake from ike can lead to 30 or so % in damage lol
Palpi
Smash Hero
if you get off stage G&W can upb when you aether and you die.
PentaSalia
Smash Master
it's best to reverse aether to prevent that lol
but even a slow dair can still get ike
but even a slow dair can still get ike
Arturito_Burrito
Smash Master
wtf does port priority have to do against olimar yoshi and all those other weird characters. I hope it's not just that you get grab priority over them.
It would have been better to put it against the people that count like maybe Link and TL or the suicides affected by it.
Seriously when are you going to out grab olimar just because you have 1st port?
It would have been better to put it against the people that count like maybe Link and TL or the suicides affected by it.
Seriously when are you going to out grab olimar just because you have 1st port?
Ussi
Smash Legend
lol at port priority
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
It's the reverse aspect of grab priority: mainly that we have a better change of stopping one of their grabs with a jab. If they have priority, they take %dg, we get grabbed. If we have priority, they don't grab us and get knocked back.
Let's see...
1) I've faced Hylian's Diddy. I don't know how good he's considered, and I know he was sandbagging. But from what I've seen in that match-up, it simply isn't very bad for Ike at all. It felt very close to neutral for me once getting past how terrible I was. *shrugs*
2) Ness vs Lucas. I may be bias here, I got 0-Death'd by a Ness. >_> But honestly, Ness seems to have better tools to use against Ike. A better aerial spacing game with a Fair nearly on par with ours spacing wise, a neutral B that DESTROYS aether. (;_; as I found out), and I find him a bit harder to grab release.
3) Squirtle. From the two Squirtles I've played: you start getting beaten when you attack. If you let him come to you, it's suddenly a lot easier. I took barely any damage when they approached, but when I approached I got hit hard. Just camp back with Nair, and then jab -> grab if he ends up with the slightest bit of landing lag in jab range. If he had Wario's aerial acceleration, we would be in trouble. But he doesn't.
4) D3. D3 hurts. ;_; The last one I played got those spiky dudes like 5 times in a row. Out of all of the ones I put down as 3-7, he's the most likely one to be changed to 35-65. But I don't see it yet.
5) Olimar. 4-6 against a guy who can shield grab anything but Fair every time, and Fair 1/3 of the time, unless we're 100% perfect with Nair? I don't see that at all.
6) ICs. Thats my opinion until we have a rediscussion on it. There are too many things to cover, and too much theorycrafting on both sides to justify changing the current ratio of 6-4 much. :\
7) ROB. ROB is in no way as hard as Marth outside of maybe FD. Not even close on any other stage.
8) Shiek. Ftilt is a pain in the rear. Needles don't help things. Neither would chain camping. It just sucks.
9) Grab Canceling should work against Peach. Just not nearly as well as against other characters. Stick to just one Jab -> Jab or Jab -> Grab.
10) Pikachu: That new CG would hurt a lot. It was near neutral before then. I'm thinking he has the edge.
Let's see...
1) I've faced Hylian's Diddy. I don't know how good he's considered, and I know he was sandbagging. But from what I've seen in that match-up, it simply isn't very bad for Ike at all. It felt very close to neutral for me once getting past how terrible I was. *shrugs*
2) Ness vs Lucas. I may be bias here, I got 0-Death'd by a Ness. >_> But honestly, Ness seems to have better tools to use against Ike. A better aerial spacing game with a Fair nearly on par with ours spacing wise, a neutral B that DESTROYS aether. (;_; as I found out), and I find him a bit harder to grab release.
3) Squirtle. From the two Squirtles I've played: you start getting beaten when you attack. If you let him come to you, it's suddenly a lot easier. I took barely any damage when they approached, but when I approached I got hit hard. Just camp back with Nair, and then jab -> grab if he ends up with the slightest bit of landing lag in jab range. If he had Wario's aerial acceleration, we would be in trouble. But he doesn't.
4) D3. D3 hurts. ;_; The last one I played got those spiky dudes like 5 times in a row. Out of all of the ones I put down as 3-7, he's the most likely one to be changed to 35-65. But I don't see it yet.
5) Olimar. 4-6 against a guy who can shield grab anything but Fair every time, and Fair 1/3 of the time, unless we're 100% perfect with Nair? I don't see that at all.
6) ICs. Thats my opinion until we have a rediscussion on it. There are too many things to cover, and too much theorycrafting on both sides to justify changing the current ratio of 6-4 much. :\
7) ROB. ROB is in no way as hard as Marth outside of maybe FD. Not even close on any other stage.
8) Shiek. Ftilt is a pain in the rear. Needles don't help things. Neither would chain camping. It just sucks.
9) Grab Canceling should work against Peach. Just not nearly as well as against other characters. Stick to just one Jab -> Jab or Jab -> Grab.
10) Pikachu: That new CG would hurt a lot. It was near neutral before then. I'm thinking he has the edge.
Palpi
Smash Hero
Ike beats ness. Ness has a hard time getting inside and his projectiles are bad, easily punishable. Once he does get inside it becomes a lot close. I still think it is 6-4.
I just think you're overestimating 1 move that certain characters have over us a little much.
TBQH, D3s not that bad of a disadvantage. D3 as hard as MK? I think it's 40:60, maybe 35:65. DDD can get damage on us like crazy. But other than that and waddle dees, what else is there?
Olimar is not as bad in practice than in theory. Up close, olimar loses to jab, and how easily can a grab hit you if you know that one's going to come out? I see it as a distinct advantage for olimar, but not a critical advantage. Olimar also gets cp *****, too, but that's besides everything else mentioned.
TBQH, D3s not that bad of a disadvantage. D3 as hard as MK? I think it's 40:60, maybe 35:65. DDD can get damage on us like crazy. But other than that and waddle dees, what else is there?
Olimar is not as bad in practice than in theory. Up close, olimar loses to jab, and how easily can a grab hit you if you know that one's going to come out? I see it as a distinct advantage for olimar, but not a critical advantage. Olimar also gets cp *****, too, but that's besides everything else mentioned.
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