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Ashunera’s Library - General Discussion, Q&A and Index

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san.

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Don't worry about it. Every single time I had a chance/ride to go to a regional or national, something was always in the way. Because I don't play too much variety of people, I'm bound to come across someone who just plain beats me, simply put. That's why I really want to get a lot more experience against many more people. The only solution that I can think of requires quite a bit of money, though, which I don't have much of at the moment.

I'm fully aware that doing well in large tournaments won't change Ike's rankings anyways, because the character doesn't change. It only adds the possibility that a plausible aspect or some aspects may have been overlooked, such as sonic.
 

Arturito_Burrito

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I was counting the entire tournament not just the bracket ryko, they are counted in rankings idk why you would leave them out.

Ryko is right. Unless my skill level is equivalent to some upper higher being that is the master of the universe, I should not be placing high on a consistent basis. It's one thing to place in local tournaments, but it's another to place in a 100 man tournament. If I started doing really well in those kinda tournaments, you'd have to assume that either I got really good, or the level of skill dropped off. Me personally? I would think of it as both. While I do continue to improve, you gotta keep in mind everyone else is improving too. It's not like one person is leveling up while everyone else is sitting around doing nothing.

So to sum it up...as long as I continue to improve, so will the other players around me. Therefore, a person around my skill level should beat me if he or she is using a character that gives Ike problems. That's why match up discussions are made, to establish a ratio or percentage chance each character has, with equal skill, to win a match.
so if you ever place top 8 in a tournament like phase 2 it would be because people suck now not that you got better?

With all you guys going on about how ike has no unwinnable match ups yesterday and a lot of match ups like snake are close to neutral how in the world is it that you all think it would be impossible to win a good tournament with Ike on more than one occasion?


They both seem to be point in the opposite direction....
 

san.

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Too many of Ike's matchups have been fluctuating all over the place recently. Only people I can trust are myself and those who I feel know specific matchups better than myself.

For example, I really want to play some awesome-level olimars, but the closest great one IIRC is icylight, and that's not close at all. I have in my mind that it's ~30:70 and 35:65, because of "a (very?) noticeable disadvantage, but..." with the but being when Ike gets inside, not to mention other things (offstage, cps(both sides) etc) It's hard for me to envision olimar in the same difficulty level as MK :(

Olimar's grab is a tiny bit slower, being a tether, right? I still wonder what happened to that nair may be safe against olimar's shield thing, because it gives us enough time afterwards?
 

Nidtendofreak

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I still wonder what happened to that nair may be safe against olimar's shield thing, because it gives us enough time afterwards?
Kirk tested that a while ago. If it's 100% spaced perfectly, and we buffer the spotdodge so there are no wasted frames, we beat the grab by one frame. As in, no room to spare. >_> That's not exactly a lot of breathing room.
 

YagamiLight

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Kirk tested that a while ago. If it's 100% spaced perfectly, and we buffer the spotdodge so there are no wasted frames, we beat the grab by one frame. As in, no room to spare. >_> That's not exactly a lot of breathing room.
To be fair "no breathing room" sounds better than "impossible"


Anyway congratulations san for winning that tourney and congratulations to all the no koast participants for doing well!
 

san.

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No Koast must've been pretty amazing. What were some of you guys' favorite/best matches there?

I would've been happier if half the people didn't leave (brawl started at 9). There could've been like 20-25 entrants.
 

theeboredone

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Well. In another timeline, according to future me, I wrecked Kirk 10-0 in a best of 3 set. But according to future me, my favorite matches were in doubles when Slaps got out and I managed to do a 4 stock on the other team.
 

Kirk

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Whew...just got back home.

I'll have to tell more about NO KOAST tomorrow, I'm dead tired.

But, thanks for all the congratulations. :)

@Ryko, hey man - chill! :)

@Brett, I think it disappeared after pools...it might have still been at that table. And LOL at you causing us to move MY pool's table and setups for a SECOND time. Seriously, this kid is TOO good.

Sleep time...
 

Rykoshet

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No really, I quit.
Nah son, nah. I'm gettin people giving different stories and making up ******** stuff in other topics and my forum sense finally had enough. I'm wielding destructoposts now until further notice, heads are gonna roll.
 

Rykoshet

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No really, I quit.
I was counting the entire tournament not just the bracket ryko, they are counted in rankings idk why you would leave them out.
Because we don't do pools here for even large *** tournaments. From a place where pools dont get done, a lot of us view pools as "did you get out?" yes/no, done. Imean yeah good **** but if pools get counted, pools should go in the placings with the rest of the people, as i've seen it done countless times before.
 

theeboredone

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Here's another side random project we should consider and then throw out the window. Ike rap video, with each of us making some verse and throwing around money, booty, and "smashes" left and right.

Metroid I know you are reading this, and I know you always wanted to star in a rap video playing a piano. You're in.
 

Teh Brettster

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I'm not getting the piano part?
It's fine. Just means I won't have to feel bad about not practicing....
We never did that TX Ikes video either. Then again, that just would have been bad timing anyhow.
But really. We come up with so many ideas and then forget about them..

@ San: My favorite matches? Team friendlies with Kirk. Hands ****ing DOWN. Paraphrased quote from me to Kirk--- "This is getting ridiculous. All Bored and I ever did was PRACTICAL ****."
 

Kirk

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@ San: My favorite matches? Team friendlies with Kirk. Hands ****ing DOWN. Paraphrased quote from me to Kirk--- "This is getting ridiculous. All Bored and I ever did was PRACTICAL ****."
Hooolllyyyy ****. Those were so much fun. It was just ridiculous Ike **** all around. "Dude, Brett, you need to spam Aether more. This **** is getting serious!!" One of my favorite moments from those matches was when I did DACIT --> Fsmash on a Diddy...TWICE in the same game. I'll try and get those uploaded sometime haha.

But man, NO KOAST was very fun. It was really cool to meet Brett. We hung out a lot, almost as much as I did with the people I came with. xD I met with Mr. Doom also. He's a cool guy, but we didn't get to really play each other outside of random(character) matches.

Pools were...interesting. Out of 10 people, 8 of them were VERY legit players...it was a very tough pool. I was afraid there would be a chance I'd not make it out at one point. But in the end, everything worked out. I made it out tied for 2nd seed.

But the best part was Brett coming over and randomly arguing with the people working there...as the manager was walking by. Our table was near a door where this lady had to get in somewhat frequently. She got PISSED at everyone...moreso than you'd think. She gave us a lot of attitude, yelling at people to get the hell out of the way when we weren't really in the way to begin with. So, attitude was given right back. But, yeah, we had to move our entire table across the venue to avoid future conflicts. You kind of had to be there...but I thought it was funny as hell. Way to go Brett, you the man!

Doubles was meh. I teamed with a fellow Illinoisian, Ripple(DK main). Highlight was on more than one occassion, these MK and G&W teams would counterpick Norfair against us and we proceeded to DESTROY them on it, like 3-4 stocking them. That, and I played in the lava with Ike, leaving Ripple to deal with the other two people lol. Fun times, but we got 9th. Not too bad, nothing special, though.

Singles was very fun. So many high tiers and Ike counters, though. xD

--1st set was against some Snake. Nothing special, 2-0'd him.

--2nd set was against Holms. He played Falco first game, beat him somewhat easily(seriously, I love that matchup now). He switches to Kirby, beats me second game, then I beat his Kirby 3rd game. I forgot I had Utilt until the last stock of the 3rd game. I was like, oh...jab1, jab1, Utilt. GG. Man it would have been easier to get some kills if I had remembered lol.

--3rd set was against Lee Martin. **** was going to be tough, I knew it going in. First game was against his Lucario on FD. I ALMOST FREAKING BEAT HIM!! Went down to the last stock, 100+ percents. I got sloppy and got hit by too many aura spheres throughout the game, but he ends up winning. Second game, I could tell he was going to switch characters. I'm sure he knew that if he stayed, I had at least a chance of beating him. So, he counterpicks MK, 2-stocks me. He apologized afterward for being gay lol. He complimented my Ike though, so that was nice to hear. Not to mention he ended up basically winning the tournament...so at least I got knocked out of winners by the best. And we happened to play on my wii...so I have those replays saved. Happy daaaaayyy.

--Next I played Legan, who from what I hear took out Brett. Man that guy's Link is so sexy. It's scary sexy, I tell you. It's always fun watching him play, not to mention playing against him. But the fact of the matter was...it's Link. Bthrow --> Dash attack at the ledge, GG. The matches were somewhat close, but I managed a 2-0 with little trouble.

--And THEN...I played ASC. Olimar!!! Great, olimar this far into the bracket. This would be very tough. Sure enough, it was. All games were VERY close. I won the first on smashville, he won the second on Halberd. I didn't know what to counterpick...so I took some advice from Brett and my IL peeps...ended up deciding on Jungle Japes. I ended up camping my second stock, holding my life at 200% while he was down to his last. "You're being camped by an IKE!!" I heard someone shout from the background. Was too funny. The game ended up being very close, but I came out with a fresh Usmash kill from the bottom middle platform, slightly charged, killing him at about 90%. Phew...

--Affinity would be my last set. MK. To be honest, I knew what to expect. I had a feeling Ike wouldn't cut it. It didn't. I got him down to his last stock both games, but he had control the entire match. I ALMOST switched to Bowser, but decided against it...I still don't know why. In retrospect, I should have switched. I would have had at least a better shot at it. I played a friendly with him after, Bowser vs. MK, and won. So I was at least happy to see that much. And Brett said I was better than Vex...and I was all like...whaaaa!?! Still a nice compliment, nonetheless lol.

So yeah, 9th out of 100+ people. I'm happy with it, as much as I wish I would have changed it up against Affinity, potentially increasing my placing.

I learned something, though. I'm putting Metaknight as Ike's new WORST matchup(or at the very least tied for worst). I don't care what anyone else says. At almost ALL of my recent tournaments, all of my lost sets have been to a Metaknight. That has to be saying something. This tournament included, Lee Martin switched to MK to take me out, and Affinity knocked me from loser's. I think it was touched on before earlier in the thread, but the fact is, if you are beating Metaknights with Ike, they are NOT GOOD MKs! He completely shuts down Ike, if they know what they are doing.

But yeah, anyway that about wraps things up. I was glad I made the 12 hour drive down there, it was WELL worth it. I'll try and upload the replays I have saved, aaaaaaand other stuff like that.

Nyah~
 

theeboredone

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Sounds like a good time. I personally would have taken the Olimar to Rainbow Cruise (unless he banned it), because most Olimars have not gotten the hang of playing on the stage. Olimars just fair hardcore on that stage.

BTW, never heard of ASC, where is he from and what is he about?
 

san.

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No Koast sounded so good lol. Falco? Olimar? Snake? Wow, too good, kirk =) Can't wait to any/all vids.
Kirbys (kirbies?) are weird. I can't tell if they're amazing or a little above mediocre, sometimes in the same match =0.

I agree with MK being the hardest, too (harder than olimar, falco, DDD, etc.), but after playing MK almost every day/every day I turn my wii on, only MKs that know the matchup extremely well can consistently win.
 

Teh Brettster

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Oli went by ASC, but his tag was Cook. I hadn't heard of an ASC, but I had heard of a Cook. Meh.
When counter-picking, Japes was Kirk's idea and I didn't have much against it... if he could get a lead first. We decided the safest would be Delfino. Japes and Cruise we said sounded okay, but I thought about how getting grabbed at certain parts of Cruise are big trouble-- and Oli grabs. Japes.. Oli can control the middle really well, but it won't matter as much when he can't kill. Kirk literally just said "**** it, I'll just try it out" and went to Japes. All in all, the water killing Pikmin did help out in the match, even though it didn't yield any immediate kills.

And yeah, I definitely gave that chick some attitude. And then some dude came up and informed he that he had the jurisdiction to kick the whole tournament out of the venue. He seemed pretty pissed too. LOL. And then I said, "I understand this. I understand you have that kind of power. But in all honesty, there was a clear cut path for that girl to walk and as she scolded us, she didn't even have to slow down while walking. We are doing our best here to respect you guys, but that girl is not making it easy." The dude suddenly seemed much less pissed and I nearly laughed out loud. Then he told us to find our TO so they could talk about moving the setups. I was shaking the entire time because I found it so funny. But as Kirk said, you just had to be there.

I'm sad-- I didn't really get a chance to see Mr Doom's games played out after his first set. =\

(And yes, almost every player in every pool was pretty legit.)

EDIT: I agree wholeheartedly with MK being the toughest match-up. Harder than Falco, Oli, D3.... The biggest difference between the MK I beat and the one that beat me (both were legit-- I think they each got 13th place) was this: One worked at racking damage and then putting me offstage. The other worked at JUST putting me offstage. The one who worked at just putting me offstage won. Granted, I gave him a good, close set, but.. sheesh. When you spend an entire match trying to reach a safe spot onstage and only make the game close because you read a single shuttle loop and spike it, the match is no fun.
 

Palpi

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I am scared of Ike. I am scared of low-tiers in general. Especially with falco, considering he was my most recent pick-up. :)

Also I think I am sick. I feel like I have to take deep breaths all of the time and It hurts to cough and I am coughing a lot. I think I have swine flu. :chuckle:
 

theeboredone

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(And yes, almost every player in every pool was pretty legit.)
What justifies a legit player? We use the term "legit" too loosely around here. Is legit someone who attends tournaments frequently, or is it someone with a certain amount of skill? Is that amount of skill pertaining to the general ability of that person or his ability with that character? From your point of view, what is validated as legit?


EDIT: The biggest difference between the MK I beat and the one that beat me (both were legit-- I think they each got 13th place) was this: One worked at racking damage and then putting me offstage. The other worked at JUST putting me offstage.
So the MK you beat, probably demonstrates he has roughly the same amount of skill than you (if not that, then a bit more), and only placed higher than you because of his character? Or were there other variables heading into your match against him...like match up experience and mental focus?

Not trying to start an argument, but personally, if I 2-0 a Falco, MK, DDD, w/e, then something is wrong with that guy. Even IF I carry more talent or potential than my opponent, the fact that he doesn't understand his own character and the match up enough to dominate shows he may not be as legit as you think. If my opponent is competent enough, he should win. If he loses, then exactly what should be more looked at? My talent or the guy's lack of talent? If I had to decide, it would go based on reputation and such. If I somehow, magically, beat Dojo, then I would lean more on me having more talent than him lacking enough. But if I beat some MK I've never heard of, then I would lean on him lacking talent to beat me.

Ryko had me thinking.
 

Teh Brettster

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Either way, if you win, it's a difference in talent or just how well each person played out the set. What you seem to be debating is whether it's your talent or your opponent's lack of talent. Well, talent isn't always the end-all be-all factor that decides every match. Luck can sometimes go in there as well as mental state, blah, blah, blah.
I just look at it this way. I beat him that time. Yay. I don't assume I have more talent or the same amount of talent of anything. Sure, he's definitely not the best, but what the crap, I'm not about to say the dude sucks or anything.
I just think it's a very pessimistic way to look at things and I don't like it that much. Just play the game and try to win. If you do, hooray. If you don't, better luck next time. Work on it.
 

Kirk

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http://www.smashboards.com/member.php?u=107066 - That is ASC's profile thing, for those interested. I've seen him around a lot on the midwest boards, thats where I've recognized him from.

Yeah, we had a LONG discussion(AT LEAST 5 minutes, probably more) deciding where to counterpick. I really did just say "**** it. I'm going to try it and see what happens." I was too undecided on anything else. It was either that or RC...he banned Brinstar I believe.

"Legit" I use to measure skill level...i.e. they know what they are doing. That entire bracket I would consider legit players. I mean, first round against that snake...took me down to last stock both games. No scrubs found here!

I sense another debate coming...
 

Arturito_Burrito

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I still can't believe its so hard for people to understand that you can outplay your opponents. Seriously a few days ago everyone was talking about how Ike had no unwinable match ups and suddenly if Ike wins something must be wrong.

Make up your minds already lol.

Also if you guys want to do a project you should just make the IDC more active, no more it doesn't send out a message johns just click your name and go to your groups.


Legit is someone good bored, kind of simple.

edit: lol I had my post typed out before kirk posted and he felt it. Why would Ike winning make something wrong!
 

san.

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Maybe that's true. Maybe not. That's why I'm not going to give them any tips on how to beat Ike anytime soon, even though there are so many things they can do.
 

san.

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Sure, I'm fine with it. I need to play falcos more often, even if it is just wifi. I rarely have time to play wifi anymore except on certain days, but this week I don't have much work. You can always AIM me at san3711. We live pretty close to each other so there won't be as much lag as playing some of you guys in midwest.
 

Palpi

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I was going to use Olimar :)

I can't falco too well on wifi unless its against people in a 20 mile radius. I empty short hop instead of lasering atleast 200 times a match haha
 

san.

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Choose whoever you like. Wifi is more muscle memory than anything else. Let's continue this on AIM rather than Ike general discussion o_O.

I'm surprised some people here even play wifi.
 

Kirk

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Here's the first of hopefully more: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvSYz9TYaMQ

Game 1 vs. Lee Martin.

I'm trying to find more vids to upload, but can't seem to find them at the moment. Hopefully they'll turn up.

And Brett, I'm sorry but the Teams replays we had are unwatchable. The wii we played on had music swaps(the old way to hack music), making the replays on my wii unwatchable without actually knowing which swaps they did. Plus, of the ones that DID play, they desynched some way through the match. I'm not sure how, but my best guess is possibly a no tripping code...

Anyway, off to find more replays...
 

Teh Brettster

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And Brett, I'm sorry but the Teams replays we had are unwatchable. The wii we played on had music swaps(the old way to hack music), making the replays on my wii unwatchable without actually knowing which swaps they did. Plus, of the ones that DID play, they desynched some way through the match. I'm not sure how, but my best guess is possibly a no tripping code...
This is quite seriously some of the worst news I've heard in a long time.
I've been a little depressed on and off this past week, but I am utterly disconsolate now.

I seriously think those may have been the best and funniest dub Ike games ever played by anyone. I am legitimately upset that nobody else can see them, lol.
 

Arturito_Burrito

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Here's the first of hopefully more: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvSYz9TYaMQ

Game 1 vs. Lee Martin.

I'm trying to find more vids to upload, but can't seem to find them at the moment. Hopefully they'll turn up.

And Brett, I'm sorry but the Teams replays we had are unwatchable. The wii we played on had music swaps(the old way to hack music), making the replays on my wii unwatchable without actually knowing which swaps they did. Plus, of the ones that DID play, they desynched some way through the match. I'm not sure how, but my best guess is possibly a no tripping code...

Anyway, off to find more replays...
0mg kirk if I had been there you would have beaten lee martin I would have told you right away to charge usmash against lucario.

Lucario is so floaty that if he spot dodges you can get him out of it and if they try to Dair you your ducking so once its over you **** them with it.

So close too, that match really made wish i had been there :(
 

Kirk

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It's no matter what I COULD have done. There were many things I COULD have done, like Dash attacked when he would come from under the ledge and Bair me. Heck, I COULD have not gotten hit by any of his attacks and 3 stocked him. There's very little time to think mid-match...but I'm sure you all know this. Catch my drift?

In any event, if I had charged, he would still have used his second jump, and wouldn't have come down for the Dair. He only came to punish when he saw I had released it. I think I would have been punished in either scenario. I don't know, for some reason I didn't think he would double jump lol.

I never use tilt stick. Smash stick all the way. Walk off Dairs are easy when you know how to do them. And yes, it was a walk off Dair attempt.
 

theeboredone

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I never use tilt stick. Smash stick all the way. Walk off Dairs are easy when you know how to do them. And yes, it was a walk off Dair attempt.
I need to really practice this...too bad I don't have a wii and I'm lazy...z.z...

The Lucario match was fun. I won't comment on it, because well, I don't feel like it and you seemed to kinda figure out what you were doing wrong here and there. Was the match originally with textures? I know some brawl players prefer to play tournament matches with normal costumes for some strange reason. The only thing I could think of with Ike is that some of his textures don't have him wearing a cape, making him look a bit different or something.

Don't worry Metroid, I'm not gonna call you out this time...

Red-X. You **** lurker. What's with asians and lurking? I bet Kimchi is lurking too. His SAT was done a long time ago, unless he thought he failed it horribly.

http://mmoon24.blogspot.com/

I'm gonna go eat, but when I come back, I wanna edit this post or make another post and talk a bit more about the whole "legit" thing. It's good food for thought.
 

-RedX-

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Don't worry Metroid, I'm not gonna call you out this time...

Red-X. You **** lurker. What's with asians and lurking? I bet Kimchi is lurking too. His SAT was done a long time ago, unless he thought he failed it horribly. .
rofl, I have nothing to say =/
Also, I haven't taken my SAT yet....
 
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