Ashunera’s Library - General Discussion, Q&A and Index

[Nidtendofreak]

That Ike thread in tactical discussion is by far the worst thing compilation of bias I have ever seen.

It is taking extreme self restraint not to call them all extreme idiots and end it at that.

Why restrain yourself? Flame their stupidity.

Or better yet: Can we update the Ike Match-up topic's first post, and put something like this:

PLEASE NOTE PEOPLE FROM OTHER BOARDS: There are some people we refuse to discuss match-up ratios with, as all they do is degrade the discussion into a minimum of a five page flamewar. While we don't mind debates, these people are simply too headstrong, stupid, and arrogant to put up with. If one of the following frequents your board, you must agree to ignore anything they say during the entire MU discussion. As in, don't respond to anything they say. Don't quote them. Heck, not even reading their posts would be best. In return, we will do the same with comboking and RoK if they happen to return.

-A2ZONG
-Gheb_01
-Inui
-ect.

Right now, I think those are the only three idiots we actually need to have ignored during MUs. Seriously Guihle(sp?), put that right at the top of your main MU topic.

In other news: Good going Kirk and other Ikes! :D

 

[-RedX-]

-A2ZONG
-Gheb_01
-Inui
-ect.

O_o What's wrong with Inui?

 

[Mr. Doom]

Some loser spilled soda all over my wii, laptop, recording gear, and my bags. And whoever did it had the balls bigger than the size of hot-air balloons not to report it. So much crap happened that day. I'm not going to lie; I did horrible.

 

[theeboredone]

Some loser spilled soda all over my wii, laptop, recording gear, and my bags. And whoever did it had the balls bigger than the size of hot-air balloons not to report it. So much crap happened that day. I'm not going to lie; I did horrible.

o_O is anything damaged?

 

[san.]

That really sucks. I try to check up on my stuff so much, because crap like this can happen. Hopefully it didn't mess anything up, especially with your electronics.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

O_o What's wrong with Inui?

Arrogant fool that believes Ike has "1-9 and 2-8" with every single high/top tier character, thinks he's the best Ike even though from what I understand he's actually a mediocre Ike and the only reason he gets anywhere is with the skills that are applied to every character (reaction time, reflexes, stuff like that).

That, and it's Inui. He shouldn't be in the backroom, and nobody should listen to a word he has to say.

@Doom: That sucks dude.

 

[san.]

If Ike has 9-1's and 8-2's, I shouldn't have won the tourney I attended yesterday (even though there were only like 16 people cause a bunch of people left before brawl started), being the only person using a low tier character. Too many people play melee over here.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

If Ike has 9-1's and 8-2's, I shouldn't have won the tourney I attended yesterday (even though there were only like 16 people cause a bunch of people left before brawl started), being the only person using a low tier character. Too many people play melee over here.

Tell me about it.

It's 100% illogical, and yet idiots like him and Gheb think that's what Ike has...even though it would be impossible to get anywhere in a tournament, no matter how good you were. -_-

Hence me saying he shouldn't be in the SBR, and I am happily awaiting the day he gets himself banhammered so I can dance on his account's grave. He already has a few permanent infractions from what I heard, that should be an instant boot from the backroom on it's own...

And yays for winning a tournament! :D

 

[theeboredone]

San, was it a college tournament? I know for a fact that college tournaments have players who well...aren't good to say the least so you can't even really compare your skill level to theirs. I know aside from the Austin crew, our college smash club consists of people who are either Melee addicts or total nubs in Brawl.

 

[san.]

No, it was in Rochester. Same old same old, JesiahTEG, pikapika, daKID, etc. FallenTwilight was another Ike main that was there. ( I see him post here a couple times =p)
The amount of people increasing/decreasing only changes depending on how many new people show up =/ But still the only people to worry about remain the same. The number of really good people won't change if people don't travel to come to our tournaments (which they have little reason to).

Went 2-0 vs everyone, 2-0 pikapika! first time, 3-2 grand finals. He used MK all but 1 match.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

No, it was in Rochester. Same old same old, JesiahTEG, pikapika, daKID, etc.

The amount of people increasing/decreasing only changes on how many new people show up =/ But still the only people to worry about remain the same.

So it counts for the rankings?

Sweet. You're really starting to get on a roll here.

Teach me!

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

If Ike has 9:1 and 8:2 with every top tier character, then Kirk is obviously the best player in the world, since he got 9th @ No Koast. >_>

 

[Nidtendofreak]

If Ike has 9:1 and 8:2 with every top tier character, then Kirk is obviously the best player in the world, since he got 9th @ No Koast. >_>

I know.

But wait, he took out Legan apparently. Obviously he only faced low tiers characters the whole way up. /sarcasm

 

[Rykoshet]

Ugh, this board's ignorance and lack of contextual understanding is really pissing me off something fierce.

San, flat out ignoring the fact that all you need to do to get rankings at some of your locals is win one set out of your first three, when are you going to wake up and realize that the absolute toughest player you're going to face in rochester is probably pikapika? Do yourself a huge favor and stop acting like it's some rocky balboa story professing the power of ike that you beat people that you otherwise beat regularly in a tournament. When I told kirk to go all snake in a tournament once he flat out 2-3 stocked his way to grand finals before the rest of his local region wised up and started playing better. You have a sonic, a lauded player of yesteryear who obviously does some dumb **** you're not putting him on to if you're 3 stocking him, ever, and a pikachu to worry about. Cut. it. out. The second a meta knight of your level of skill shows up and decides pants you on screen I'll be glad to hear of the triumphant story of the ike that succeeded in the face of adversity. The next time I see it get brought up and it starts another ****ing parade I'm gonna quote this.

I'm on some haterade **** today, I'm taking no prisoners.

 

[san.]

So it counts for the rankings?

Sweet. You're really starting to get on a roll here.

Teach me!

I'm just so bad at theorycrafting, I have too much in my head to be able to be clear or concise on anything -_-.

Playing against MK on japes is fun, but I was stupid and got clapped lolol when I was way in the lead. (i was at the spot where the klaptrap first appears, a split second before aether superarmor)

I def. need to look at the clock more XD.

Ugh, this board's ignorance and lack of contextual understanding is really pissing me off something fierce.

San, flat out ignoring the fact that all you need to do to get rankings at some of your locals is win one set out of your first three, when are you going to wake up and realize that the absolute toughest player you're going to face in rochester is probably pikapika? Do yourself a huge favor and stop acting like it's some rocky balboa story professing the power of ike that you beat people that you otherwise beat regularly in a tournament. When I told kirk to go all snake in a tournament once he flat out 2-3 stocked his way to grand finals before the rest of his local region wised up and playing better. You have a sonic, a lauded player of yesteryear who obviously does some dumb **** you're not putting him on to if you're 3 stocking him, ever, and a pikachu to worry about. Cut. it. out.

Sigh, I was hoping not to post anything at all. Pikapika has ***** numerous top opponents, so I have no clue why you're undermining his skill. I'd rather not list names. I did not used to beat them regularly in tournament until recently (which are still very hard and most of the time close games), because I actually decided to step up my game and think things through. Jesiah used to constantly beat me for almost a whole year. They all had a bunch of experience playing kirk all the time. If I made it sound like a big deal, of course it's not, especially the second time. The first time I was excited for doing well for once, but I do not like to rub wins in people's faces. I still don't think it was fair of me to talk about a lot of things I have said. When have I ever said my Ike is awesomely great or anything like that? I just play the game,try to do my best, and happen to win. People can overestimate or underestimate my Ike all they want. I still think what kirk did is 100x better than me. I only posted because, how can I win a 9-1 or 8-2 matchup?

My bad for playing Ike =/ Not my fault I suck with the rest of the cast.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

LOL.

That has to be it! No way Ike could beat MK or Snake. ._.

 

[Rykoshet]

Ike's matchup against snake is barely a 6-4 in snake's favor, if even that. If ike COULDNT win that matchup I'd be the first to say it. Hell, ike has a fighting chance against falco, dedede, and even olimar (which is rather blatantly an 8-2) thanks to having a 0-death trap (only on olimar). But a spade's a spade. Winning a 16 man tournament means you went through 4 people and then a fifth that you very likely already beat. Don't put words in my mouth, **** doesn't work. Beyond that, there's a difference between being capable of winning and then flat out destroying your opponent. One means you outplayed your opponent, the other means your opponent is a ****ing moron.

Pikapika has ***** numerous top opponents, so I have no clue why you're undermining his skill.

I did nothing of the sort, I said that pikapika is likely the best player you have to face on any consistent basis. That isnt to say he's bad, in fact quite the opposite. I know what he's capable of, but if pikachu isn't doing the job for him against you and he hasnt decided to take a look at why he's losing or find a way around it then it's on him for refusing to improve in that aspect. But wake up and smell the coffee, you're rather obviously the best player in rochester, stop acting like that's anything but the case.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

isn't it weird that people go omg top tier vs low tier must be unwinable! lol

 

[san.]

Pikapika hasn't used pikachu predominantly against me since like March or April. He used to use marth on me, but now he uses MK on me, except if I CP stages where he feels his pikachu is better. I doubt a highly ranked player would not attempt to improve in such areas on a character he has had contact with for a long time. (first with kirk, now with me). Since Ike is low tier, it shouldn't have been as much trouble as top tier matchups. I doubt I'm the absolute best player in Rochester, also.

 

[Rykoshet]

Pikapika hasn't used pikachu predominantly against me since like March or April. He used to use marth on me, but now he uses MK on me, except if I CP stages where he feels his pikachu is better. I doubt a highly ranked player would not attempt to improve in such areas on a character he has had contact with for a long time. (first with kirk, now with me). I doubt I'm the absolute best player in Rochester.

If he's losing with MK against ike on a consistent basis then his MK is obviously not up to snuff and he's otherwise going through the rest of his opponents based on the skill difference alone. I'm going based off of his best placing in large event, which means the last time he played pikachu in a competitive fashion was in august. Pikapika may be a good player but again only out of context does it even make the slightest bit of sense that he's not shoving you into a consistent second, sorry.

 

[san.]

Take it as you will. My Ike is what it is.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Hey Ryko: chill.

I want San to win a bunch of tournaments where he's one of the best players in the tournament. Once he's done that enough times, I get to call everyone who doesn't hype up Ike as much as they hyped up PT+Reflex hypocrites and also get to prove my point about one person's results =/= deserving a tier rise. :D

Think you can keep this up for another month San?

 

[Rykoshet]

Hey Ryko: chill.

Bad arguments piss me the **** off, I'll chill the second people stop being dumb.

Reflex placed top 8 in a regional, your reasoning is inconsistent.

Take it as you will. My Ike is what it is.

And what that is is "notably very good", so much so that the rest of the people you're playing with are not keeping up.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Bad arguments piss me the **** off, I'll chill the second people stop being dumb.

Reflex placed top 8 in a regional, your reasoning is inconsistent.

They were hyping him and calling PT C tier long before then dude. They were hyping him before the latest tier list, he got that top 8 after the tier list.

That, and I'll just point to Kirk placing 9th in NO KOAST. Good enough to prove my point.

EDIT: And for the record, I don't think Ike should rise because of it. I just wanna see those people choke on their words.

 

[san.]

The next locals in Rohester and Syracuse, NY aren't for a couple months, but I have been talking with daKID and pikapika about heading over to a larger tourney in november. Hopefully, I can get more experience with playing against many more top players. I doubt 1st place winnings will happen consistently, lol.

 

[Rykoshet]

They were hyping him and calling PT C tier long before then dude. They were hyping him before the latest tier list, he got that top 8 after the tier list.

And reflex backed it up. The sonics talk all the ****ing time about how good their character is but at the time the character rose only malcolm was holding it down. And it made him drop the character, so rofl.

That, and I'll just point to Kirk placing 9th in NO KOAST. Good enough to prove my point.

Last I checked 9th gets no biscuits when it comes to character rankings. Kirk did very well and I'm more than happy for him but top 8 is where it ends. I've done 9th a number of times in tournaments with larger attendances but I seem to be the only one here who doesn't hold it up as a "just missed the mark" badge. Sorry brah.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

I remember you acted this way a bit when kirk was placing well in the midwest lol, I wonder if bored starts placing here you'll say texas is full of people who suck and just don't abuse ike's weaknesses enough.


What tournament did you get 9th at with 100+ people ryko I remember you got 17th at a 140 one but never heard of 9th.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

It's still good enough for my purposes Ryko. I'm not crazy enough to claim it should equal the same amount of hype. Just hype nevertheless.

And my whole point that it wasn't PT being good, it was Reflex being good. Which ironically he proved with his placing more then he proved PT was that good.

Sonic had multiple people placing during the time they talked up their character. Espy, Malcom, Mr.3000, ect.

I'm know what I'm dong dude. It's my fight, my argument after all. It's not even truly about Ike, or PT's placement. It's more about how people seem to read the data more then anything. I simply need enough to prove a point, even if it's only to a lesser extent.

 

[Rykoshet]

I remember you acted this way a bit when kirk was placing well in the midwest lol, I wonder if bored starts placing here you'll say texas is full of people who suck and just don't abuse ike's weaknesses enough.


What tournament did you get 9th at with 100+ people ryko I remember you got 17th at a 140 one but never heard of 9th.

Placings ending at 49th indicates a 100+ people bracket, wut? I'm gonna cut you off here and point out that kirk is better than me, back when I started that **** with him was almost a year ago though and at the time I brought it up I had 3 9th placings in 50-64+ man brackets as well as 2 top 5 placings in much smaller locals (one of which I lost to malcolm and bsc [a crew member who plays d3] and in the other I lost to spam and pierce) so even in my small ****ty locals did I have to worry about a level of player you're not typically worrying about. Adding to that, I've been casual since late february so derp, I don't care about what people say about my skill long past the point I stopped practicing. Secondly, when I stated that about kirk's tournament region, it was true so that's just a terribly bad point to bring up as it only reinforces my point. Like I said, he went snake like immediately after that and 2-0/3-0'd his way until he got to arty where he realized he had a falco matchup problem, which he's since fixed.

If bored starts ****** texas left and right up and down on a consistent basis you bet your *** I'll start talking about how the region fell off. You act like circumstances regarding a place of activity cant change over time. There's a huge difference between me stating that a tournament's players arent holding it down and me stating that the ike in question sucks.

 

[Slaps]

If bored starts ****** texas left and right up and down on a consistent basis you bet your *** I'll start talking about how the region fell off. You act like circumstances regarding a place of activity cant change over time. There's a huge difference between me stating that a tournament's players arent holding it down and me stating that the ike in question sucks.

I don't know if I heard this correctly, but it sounds like your saying the only way for ike's to win is if the region is doing poorly. Basically putting it as we can only win by luck rather than any amount of skill whatsoever. Am I right? Or did I misinterperet.

Not trying to start **** with anyone so don't get offensive

 

[Rykoshet]

If he ***** his way through his region, yes. I'm sorry, but there's no excuse for any region's best players to find ike unbeatable. Big difference between someone pulling out wins and just straight mowing down the opposition.

 

[theeboredone]

I don't know if I heard this correctly, but it sounds like your saying the only way for ike's to win is if the region is doing poorly. Basically putting it as we can only win by luck rather than any amount of skill whatsoever. Am I right? Or did I misinterperet.

Not trying to start **** with anyone so don't get offensive

Ryko is right. Unless my skill level is equivalent to some upper higher being that is the master of the universe, I should not be placing high on a consistent basis. It's one thing to place in local tournaments, but it's another to place in a 100 man tournament. If I started doing really well in those kinda tournaments, you'd have to assume that either I got really good, or the level of skill dropped off. Me personally? I would think of it as both. While I do continue to improve, you gotta keep in mind everyone else is improving too. It's not like one person is leveling up while everyone else is sitting around doing nothing.

So to sum it up...as long as I continue to improve, so will the other players around me. Therefore, a person around my skill level should beat me if he or she is using a character that gives Ike problems. That's why match up discussions are made, to establish a ratio or percentage chance each character has, with equal skill, to win a match.

 

[Palpi]

It isn't 100% based on luck because if someone doesn't know the Ike MU, but the Ike player is not very good, it won't be very difficult.

Because people like San and Kirk are top Ike players, it makes it harder for the people in their region, of significantly less skill, to beat them, regardless of being a low tier character.

 

[Teh Brettster]

Ryko, as close to correct as you may be, you could act a little more chill and just be happy for the Ikes who have done well recently.

Sigh.

Just got back from No Koast. It was fun.

All the Ikes got out of pools (though I'm the only one who used 100% Ike in pools, JERKS). Mr Doom and Kirk each played Snakes (Joker and Afrotastic, respectively) and I played an MK (Clel) first round. We all won our first matches.
Demotivated by the fact that I had to play another MK right after, I lost my next match (he was about the same skill as the first). Close, but that only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. Then my first set in losers was against Legan. I wondered what the hell he was already doing in losers. I 2-stocked him in match 1, barely lost in match 2, and suicided my way to a loss in match 3, because all I ever do now is choke when it matters.
Lol, I also found out that if I had won EITHER of the matches I lost, I would have had to play ANOTHER MK. Fun fun.

Eh, I think that the singles placings for us were (out of like... 100?)
Brett: 33
Mr Doom: 25
Kirk: 9

Kirk, I want to see those teams friendlies up. I'll be needing the lulz in a great way.

 

[Rykoshet]

Ryko, as close to correct as you may be, you could act a little more chill and just be happy for the Ikes who have done well recently.

I'm on some haterade **** today, I'm taking no prisoners

San is, frankly put, an amazing ike. However acting like winning some 16 man local (when I've seen more people of equivalent or higher skill in non competitive smash fests) is the beginning of the new testament is downright stupid.

 

[Slaps]

but that only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

and atomic warfare!

Good job to all the Ikes at No Koast. Brett, Kirk, and Mr. Doom! =]

 

[san.]

San is, frankly put, an amazing ike. However acting like winning some 16 man local (when I've seen more people of equivalent or higher skill in non competitive smash fests) is the beginning of the new testament is downright stupid.

I had no intention of putting it that way if that's what it sounded like o_O

It was more like a "nice job at No Koast! I put in a little work myself =)" kind of thing. Bigger tournaments>>>locals, even if they do not get top 8. Even taking the time and effort to travel there makes me jealous =p

 

[theeboredone]

I think San and Kirk need to book some tickets to the next WHOBO in spring. Awesome Ike fest featuring awesome Ike players not named Bored.

 

[san.]

If bored starts ****** texas left and right up and down on a consistent basis you bet your *** I'll start talking about how the region fell off.

The more I read this, the more interesting it sounds.

Earlier, you stated that Ike vs olimar is 80-20. What is your reasoning for this? (or any other Ikes familiar with the matchup). I can picture it being pretty bad, but not that bad.

 

[Rykoshet]

I had no intention of putting it that way if that's what it sounded like o_O

It was more like a "nice job at No Koast! I put in a little work myself =)" kind of thing. Bigger tournaments>>>locals, even if they do not get top 8. Even taking the time and effort to travel there makes me jealous =p

I know you didnt mean to make it sound that way, I'm sorry for implying that you were at fault or something for the parade you seem to cause due to being a good player but it wasnt directed at you specifically.

Earlier, you stated that Ike vs olimar is 80-20. What is your reasoning for this? (or any other Ikes familiar with the matchup). I can picture it being pretty bad, but not that bad.

There really is no approach you have on olimar that is safe and olimar has no reason to come to you. It's really simple as that, luckily when you get a hand on olimar it can very well be a full stock and as a result I do far better against them than one would expect but in practice you take a lot, a lot, a lot of punishment trying to get a hand on olimar.