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Meta "And Then Suddenly..." [1.1.5] Patch Discussion

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BSP

BSP

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So for Pac-Man, I'm seeing the Bair and Dsmash buffs in game. On a 300% Mario, they both do 14 MPH more kickback than the pre patch versions of the moves.

According to the diff checker, this should be the same case with his U smash and F smash, but no differences are coming up in game. Odd.
 
Dr. Tuen

Dr. Tuen

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Did my best with the ZSS diffs.

ZSS Diffs
UAIR
Damage - 8% --> 6.5%
KBG - 110 --> 125

NAIR
Damage - 10% --> 8%
KBG - 80 --> 96
BKB - 40 --> 38
[Various size changes, roughly 1 unit less in all changes]*

BACK THROW
Damage - 4 --> 6
KBG - 60 --> 45
BKB - 70 --> 72

DOWN THROW
Damage - 5 --> 3
KBG - 25 --> 60
BKB - 100 --> 90

SIDE B 1
BKB - 80 --> 100

SIDE B [Middle Hits]
Damage - 0.8 --> 1.2
KBG - 90 --> 70
[Various size changes]

SIDE B FINAL
Damage - 6 --> 7.5
[Various size changes]

This line shows up twice and I don't know what it means. Did a move get faster?
"Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=30)" --> "Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=26)"

*Here's me, trying to parse what the nair size differences mean. It's obvious that they all refer to different hitboxes... but I have no idea which ones! It just seems universally smaller overall by 1 unit.
X - 11 --> 10
Y - 7.5 --> 7
Z - 20 --> 19
X - -9 --> -6.6
Y - 14.6--> 13.8
X - -16 --> -15
Y - 17 --> 16.5

@Furil if you get a chance, since she's already been done before, a look at ZSS' new nair hitbox would be lovely.
 
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Sammi Husky

Sammi Husky

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Palutena

Rapid jab End:
  • hitbox damage 3% -> 3.5%

Nair:
  • Looping hitboxes damage 1.5% -> 1.7%
  • Final hitbox damage 4% -> 5%

Fair:
  • Damage 8% -> 9%
  • KBG 100 -> 92
  • BKB 30 -> 31
 
-StarShade-

-StarShade-

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MitchyD said:
Falco's jabs, pummel, fair nair and bair all feel faster to me coming out, can anyone else confirm?
Click to expand...
:4falco:'s jab has always been a frame 2 move. Are you referring to the tansition from jab 2 to rapid jab? If so, thank god! These characters::4fox::4yoshi::4villager::4sheik::4jigglypuff: can either shield or jab themselves in that time.
 
Thirtyfour

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Is it just me or does Jigglypuff fast fall faster? Did her Dair always do 14%?
Does pound really do more shield damage?
 
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Newbarktown

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Been testing Falcon for a bit now, haven't noticed any changes besides a possible knockback buff on forward facing Falcon Punch. Going to look a bit more into it.
 
GHNeko

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Cloud's Limit Slash doesnt take an extra 1.5seconds to charge lol.

It takes around .6 seconds.

I tested multiple times with a stop watch.
 
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Suicidal_Donuts

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From the Zelda changes I could infer that Uair got a size increase (from 7 -> 8). Some of the Zeldas (including myself) said Uair felt easier to land anyways, which would make sense (also it was under the same move which got the same damage change as Uair as well, making it more likely to be true).
 
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Gunla

Gunla

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The "Bonk" is the bounce that occurs when you directly Hydro Pump into a wall.

In previous patches, you'd usually die if this happened; in this patch, you are more likely to survive since the bonk launches you at a different angle.
 
Tetra-76

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Newbarktown said:
Been testing Falcon for a bit now, haven't noticed any changes besides a possible knockback buff on forward facing Falcon Punch. Going to look a bit more into it.
Click to expand...
Funny, I discounted that as placebo when I thought a Falcon Punch of mine killed a bit earlier. If this old video is to be believed though, it might just be the case. I just tested it on both Mario and Bowser, and it seemed to kill 5-6% earlier.
 
momochuu

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why don't they just take it out? they clearly know it's there.
 
F

Freezie KO

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Myran said:
Your numbers are going against mine and the others I've talked to. Are you sure you aren't just mixing up rage values?

Also myself and some other Olimars are finding it impossible to get Olimar's grab to whiff. So there had to have been some change to it's hitbox, but the data mining doesn't say anything.
Click to expand...
Tested grab on Marth, Sheik, Mario, and ZSS, all at point-blank range. It whiffed once randomly on Marth, and I could get it to whiff consistently on ZSS when she did her idle animation.

Overall it seems to have some sort of fix/buff (thankfully), but if there's no data for it, maybe that's because pikmin are items? Would changes to pikmin be listed in a different folder or something? I'm ignorant about data mining.
 
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Myran

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Freezie KO said:
Tested on Marth, Sheik, Mario, and ZSS, all at point-blank range. It whiffed once randomly on Marth, and I could get it to whiff consistently on ZSS when she did her idle animation.

Overall it seems to have some sort of fix/buff, but if there's no data for it, maybe that's because pikmin are items? Would changes to pikmin be listed in a different folder or something? I'm ignorant about data mining.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty out of the loop on how it's done as well.
 
Kamikazek

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Freezie KO said:
Tested grab on Marth, Sheik, Mario, and ZSS, all at point-blank range. It whiffed once randomly on Marth, and I could get it to whiff consistently on ZSS when she did her idle animation.

Overall it seems to have some sort of fix/buff (thankfully), but if there's no data for it, maybe that's because pikmin are items? Would changes to pikmin be listed in a different folder or something? I'm ignorant about data mining.
Click to expand...
Myran said:
I'm pretty out of the loop on how it's done as well.
Click to expand...
I'm not a data miner either, but I'm pretty sure I remember last patch the data miners had to go into the item files to check for Pikmin changes. I'm fairly certain they aren't with the character files.
 
FallofBrawl

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Any idea what grab collision 2
5.5>7.7 and x 5.2>7.2? Grabbox increase?

EDIT: For Ganon
 
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F

Freezie KO

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Kamikazek said:
I'm not a data miner either, but I'm pretty sure I remember last patch the data miners had to go into the item files to check for Pikmin changes. I'm fairly certain they aren't with the character files.
Click to expand...
This makes sense.

If any data miners are reading this, please help!
 
Bubba

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Not sure why they needed to nerf Peach's Uair. That was a hard tech to even set up. At least do something about that god awful turnip pull.
 
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Masonomace

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Bayonetta's Witch Time without activating the counter has 49 Total Frames aka the FAF is 50 now. It used to be 45.
 
A2ZOMG

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FallofBrawl said:
Any idea what grab collision 2
5.5>7.7 and x 5.2>7.2? Grabbox increase?

EDIT: For Ganon
Click to expand...
It means Ganon grabs you from very slightly further away. This is mostly a buff to when he grabs you near the edge. Because he pulls you from slightly further away, you are less likely to be able to DI to the ledge to get out of his mixup.
 
Furret

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checked through the zelda diffs, some stuff is above me sadly. (Shakes fist at Z axis)
Furret said:
Hitbox change specifics
  • Uair
    • damage 15-17%
    • Hitbox size 7->8
    • KBG 80->74
  • Nair
    • multi hit damage front hit box 2->2.5%
    • multi hit damage back hit box 1->1.5%
    • Final hit damage 3->5%
    • Final hit KBG front hit box 160->130
    • Final hit KBG back hit box 140->110
  • Ftilt
    • Hitbox active frame 12->8.8 which rounds to 9, FAF should be 3 frames sooner as a result
    • some change the z axis for the hit box
  • Jab
    • Multi hit damage 2.5->3%
    • Final hit Damage 3->5%
    • Final hit BKB 35->40
    • Final hit KBG 130->95
Secondly there is a change to some parameters in her grab
Click to expand...
 
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C

Connor AC3

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So happy that there are people here explaining all the new changes. I personally love all the balancing patches in this game, it makes everything so much more even and dynamic. No johns
 
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